Nationalism in pro cycling

[King Of Molehill]

I thought this could use it's own thread since I've seen it pop up in other discussions.

I believe one of the main reasons we are seeing/hearing more nationalist behavior on the part of the press and fans in general is mostly due to lack of long term team sponsorship and good club ownership (poor branding). With so many sponsors being scared off by the negative press that cycling has brought upon itself over the last couple of decades there hasn't been a team that has been around long enough to develop a loyal following. If we STILL had Molteni, Peugeot, Kas, La Vie Clair, Mapei, Carrera, Renault Elf, 7-Eleven etc... and riders didn't switch teams as often then this wouldn't be an issue. Team Sky have brought it upon themselves to be proudly British which isn't a bad thing but what could be seen as a problem is exclusivity. The 'all in for Wiggin' approach to get one for Britain in an Olympic year held in Britain is probably a bit much for a lot of people.

When I think of the type of cycling brands that I have either been loyal to or respectful of for a long time I think of Campagnolo, Shimano, Bianchi, Colnago, Pinnarello, Cervelo, Rapha, Raleigh etc.. They all have a strong history in cycling and can break through barriers while still being proudly Italian or French or English.

So to summarize I believe the problem of nationalism in the press and fans in pro cycling over the past couple of decades is due to poor business on the part of professional cycling teams and their inability to create a brand that is tested over time. The reasons are too numerous to count and many will put this discussion firmly in the Clinic but that's not the intention here.

As a discussion point does anyone here have a loyal brand that they follow in cycling and why (especially if it is a team)?

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

I don't think it's particularly "poor business" on the part of the teams that makes them so transient. The sport is structured so that teams are very weak compared to teams in other sports (with the partial exception of motor sports). Teams have no reliable source of income other than sponsorship. Sponsorship is ultimately subject to the vagaries of sponsor's whims and the fortunes of the wider economy, and so, is usually transient.

Teams which change names regularly or disappear every few years are always going to find it very difficult to gain a purchase on fan loyalties. In addition, people are inherently less likely to passionately identify with a team named after some corporation than they are with a team named after their town, or at the very least with an independent identity.

 

[Hotbrakes]

I thought this could use it's own thread since I've seen it pop up in other discussions.

I believe one of the main reasons we are seeing/hearing more nationalist behavior on the part of the press and fans in general is mostly due to lack of long term team sponsorship and good club ownership (poor branding). With so many sponsors being scared off by the negative press that cycling has brought upon itself over the last couple of decades there hasn't been a team that has been around long enough to develop a loyal following. If we STILL had Molteni, Peugeot, Kas, La Vie Clair, Mapei, Carrera, Renault Elf, 7-Eleven etc... and riders didn't switch teams as often then this wouldn't be an issue. Team Sky have brought it upon themselves to be proudly British which isn't a bad thing but what could be seen as a problem is exclusivity. The 'all in for Wiggin' approach to get one for Britain in an Olympic year held in Britain is probably a bit much for a lot of people.

When I think of the type of cycling brands that I have either been loyal to or respectful of for a long time I think of Campagnolo, Shimano, Bianchi, Colnago, Pinnarello, Cervelo, Rapha, Raleigh etc.. They all have a strong history in cycling and can break through barriers while still being proudly Italian or French or English.

So to summarize I believe the problem of nationalism in the press and fans in pro cycling over the past couple of decades is due to poor business on the part of professional cycling teams and their inability to create a brand that is tested over time. The reasons are too numerous to count and many will put this discussion firmly in the Clinic but that's not the intention here.

As a discussion point does anyone here have a loyal brand that they follow in cycling and why (especially if it is a team)?

I believe this is true. Loyalty in sport is hard to find.

 

[auscyclefan94]

I don't think a little bit of nationalism in a sport like Cycling hurts but it can sometimes get a little over the top.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

So to summarize I believe the problem of nationalism in the press and fans in pro cycling over the past couple of decades is due to poor business on the part of professional cycling teams and their inability to create a brand that is tested over time. The reasons are too numerous to count and many will put this discussion firmly in the Clinic but that's not the intention here.

I don't really have a brand I associate with anymore. But I don't think poor business is a part of the problem. More likely it is the nature of the business. That being sponsors just get involved in cycling for a period of time for marketing purposes, and to get their name known in different markets around the globe. Once they feel that has been accomplished, or that the money is not well spent, they pull out of sponsorship. There are a few team sponsors that have been around a while, probably none longer than FDJ, but many mainstay sponsors have sadly come and gone. The other problem is many teams are multi-national now for the most part.

 

[spalco]

I've always thought that fan loyalty to cycling teams is kind of silly considering the extent of commercialism. As much as I dislike nationalism, liking a team because it's based in your country and most of their riders are from there too - wether it's Sky, OPQS, Liquigas or Euskaltel, makes at least a little more sense.

 

[kjetilraknerud]

I've always thought that fan loyalty to cycling teams is kind of silly considering the extent of commercialism. As much as I dislike nationalism, liking a team because it's based in your country and most of their riders are from there too - wether it's Sky, OPQS, Liquigas or Euskaltel, makes at least a little more sense.

+ 1

Historically, I'd say sport exists because of nationalism (or perhaps regionalism in earlier times). Think of the original olympic games in Greece, or the systematic "production" of elite athletes in DDR and USSR after WWII - it existed, among other things, to create enthusiasm among citizens. It's still the same, for example in Norway when norwegian athletes dominate Nordic Skiing events or in England when they, year after year, believe they will win the football world/euro cup.

So cycling is strange, at least team wise. Since I started following cycling around 8 years ago, my opinion is that fans generally support riders rather than teams. That the british suddenly support Sky with all their hearts is perhaps a step towards "normal" rather than the opposite.

 

[RedheadDane]

I guess I am pretty loyal towards the Saxo-boys. And the "wayward" Danes as well.
On the other hand; my definitions of a Dane Team are very loose. It's basically:

Saxo: Obviously!

Shack: "Birdie" and Andersen.
However I also maintain a fair amount of loyalty towards all the other former Saxo guys and quite honestly feel bad for them for having ended up in such a ****ty situation

Lotto: Lars Bak.

Vacansoleil: Martin Mortensen.
Yeah... that guy...

Spidertech: Brian Vandborg
(When he was on Liqui that was of course a "Dane team")

OPQS: Brian Holm

Garmin: Johnny Weltz

Sky: Carsten Jeppesen

Greenedge: Brian Nygaard

 

[Arnout]

I think nationalism is not the right word. I associate nationalism with "own nation first, own nation better". I more like the term patriotism to describe fan support of own riders in a sports event.

That said, I don't get patriotism either. I recently spoke with a Mexican friend about it, who observed the Dutch fans during both WC2010 and EC2012. When "we" are winning, the fans are playing the tough guy, as if it were them that won instead of some guys born on the same patch of earth (or somewhere in the Caribbean, for that matter). If the Dutch team losing, the fans are blaming them for not being better, as in their mind, they are. Suddenly the fans are not part of the team anymore. I see the same with cycling. The Netherlands is very Tour de France centric and everyone expected Gesink and Mollema to do well. Now that they aren't, for whatever reason, people are disappointed, not for Gesink or for Mollema, but for themselves. They blame Gesink for not paying back their expectation, as if it were them that did the effort to finish fifth and Gesink only screwed up the last bit. Extremely annoying behavior if you ask me.

I simply don't understand the mindset that makes you want to support (let's revert back to the friendly way of support as opposed to the Dutch way) a guy that happened to be born on the same patch of land. There's nothing either you or he did to be part of the same nation, but still you are supporting him like nothing else. I don't get why. I don't mind people doing it, I'm unable to do it myself.

I, however, have a soft spot for Euskaltel and Basque riders. If there's a team that's driven more by patriotism and even nationalism if you want, it's Euskaltel. However, I like to believe I like them mostly for their way of cycling, always attacking, always animating the race and almost never winning helps, too.

That's why I love cycling: exciting races. I mostly like exciting riders, riders that have a certain character or animate a race, and preferably both. That's why I don't support Dutch riders, I'm not impressed by their way of racing (their Tour-centricness doesn't help). Theyoungest will probably blame me for this, saying that I'm supporting against them, but I ain't. I'm simply not interested, except for Thomas Dekker. I like him a lot.

I also like Cavendish, Sagan, Pinot, Rolland, Vino and many more interesting riders. It's not bound to nation or whatever, and I think it is the way forward. In Britain, BBC will probably give attention to cycling only because a Brit is winning. Depending on the winner next year, they might largely ignore the event next year again. In my mind, that's not interest in the sport, but interest in a guy that happens to be born in the same country that is being superior in a sport. Which sport? Oh, cycling, well, that's not that important. That's my big issue with patriotism: a lot of people tend to support their countrymen, with less interest in the sport itself. I think that's a pity, because cycling is much more than that.

 

[kjetilraknerud]

A bit of patriotism is needed for the sport to grow I think. Wiggins winning the tour will introduce cycling to many brits through media. Cycling started growing in Norway when Hushovd began to win races. Without any knowledge I would guess cycling is growing in Slovakia at the moment? Introducing new countries to the sport can only be a good thing in my eyes.

 

[Arnout]

A bit of patriotism is needed for the sport to grow I think. Wiggins winning the tour will introduce cycling to many brits through media. Cycling started growing in Norway when Hushovd began to win races. Without any knowledge I would guess cycling is growing in Slovakia at the moment? Introducing new countries to the sport can only be a good thing in my eyes.

Slovakia is broadcasting live and on location for the first time (apart from Eurosport I guess), indeed.

I understand patriotism is useful indeed, although I still feel its a weird thing. But maybe it's simply me who is weird.

 

[hrotha]

I loathe nationalism in all its forms, and nationalism in sports is one of the silliest ones. Especially in a sport like cycling, where hardcore fans like most regular forumers here actually know and follow the careers of pretty much the whole pro peloton (WT and most of Pro-Conti at least). I don't see any reason to favour riders that happened to be born within the conventional borders of my country or whose first language is the same as mine.

 

[Machu Picchu]

I loathe nationalism in all its forms, and nationalism in sports is one of the silliest ones. Especially in a sport like cycling, where hardcore fans like most regular forumers here actually know and follow the careers of pretty much the whole pro peloton (WT and most of Pro-Conti at least). I don't see any reason to favour riders that happened to be born within the conventional borders of my country or whose first language is the same as mine.

Absolutely agree, nationalism/patriotism plays no part in my enjoyment of art, music, literature, film, cuisine etc. so why cycling? especially when much of my interest (the history, passion and legends of the sport) largely emanated from outside my own country.

 

[Apollonius]

The worst offenders for OTT nationalism is from the fans of Britain, Australia and Spain - it oft borders on hate towards other nationalities.
Such bile belongs in sports such as soccer - I wish it could be left at the door for cycling though that's hard when certain teams actively court this reaction.

 

[William H]

Sport events are more interesting if you have someone you're supporting. Since we don't actually know these people, picking based on shared nationality is a convenient way to get a stake in the race.

 

[Christian]

Vacansoleil: Martin Mortensen.
Yeah... that guy...

What about him? I followed him when he was riding for LEOPARD TREK and thought he seemed like a great guy

Also Radioshack has Lars Michaelsen

The worst offenders for OTT nationalism is from the fans of Britain, Australia and Spain - it oft borders on hate towards other nationalities.

Worst I've seen in cycling was Dutch "fans" booing Thomas Voeckler on l'Alpe d'Huez

 

[taiwan]

I thought this could use it's own thread since I've seen it pop up in other discussions.

I believe one of the main reasons we are seeing/hearing more nationalist behavior on the part of the press and fans in general is mostly due to lack of long term team sponsorship and good club ownership (poor branding). With so many sponsors being scared off by the negative press that cycling has brought upon itself over the last couple of decades there hasn't been a team that has been around long enough to develop a loyal following. If we STILL had Molteni, Peugeot, Kas, La Vie Clair, Mapei, Carrera, Renault Elf, 7-Eleven etc... and riders didn't switch teams as often then this wouldn't be an issue. Team Sky have brought it upon themselves to be proudly British which isn't a bad thing but what could be seen as a problem is exclusivity. The 'all in for Wiggin' approach to get one for Britain in an Olympic year held in Britain is probably a bit much for a lot of people.

When I think of the type of cycling brands that I have either been loyal to or respectful of for a long time I think of Campagnolo, Shimano, Bianchi, Colnago, Pinnarello, Cervelo, Rapha, Raleigh etc.. They all have a strong history in cycling and can break through barriers while still being proudly Italian or French or English.

So to summarize I believe the problem of nationalism in the press and fans in pro cycling over the past couple of decades is due to poor business on the part of professional cycling teams and their inability to create a brand that is tested over time. The reasons are too numerous to count and many will put this discussion firmly in the Clinic but that's not the intention here.

As a discussion point does anyone here have a loyal brand that they follow in cycling and why (especially if it is a team)?

Rabobank is one of the best established teams, but their leaders are more Dutch than they used to be. I think they're just following the nationalism of casual fans.

 

[Corona]

+ 1

Historically, I'd say sport exists because of nationalism (or perhaps regionalism in earlier times). Think of the original olympic games in Greece, or the systematic "production" of elite athletes in DDR and USSR after WWII - it existed, among other things, to create enthusiasm among citizens. It's still the same, for example in Norway when norwegian athletes dominate Nordic Skiing events or in England when they, year after year, believe they will win the football world/euro cup.

So cycling is strange, at least team wise. Since I started following cycling around 8 years ago, my opinion is that fans generally support riders rather than teams. That the british suddenly support Sky with all their hearts is perhaps a step towards "normal" rather than the opposite.

This is the bizarre thing though, you'd probably struggle to find a person (Murdoch) or brand (Sky) that's despised more by the average Brit. I still suspect that for most Brits they support the individual British riders more than the team. Prior to this year there was probably more support for HTC because Cav was 'the name' they wanted to follow. This year it's Sky because of Wiggins & Cav. Conceivably it's possible we may have Cav, Wiggins & Froome back on different teams in the not too distant future and I don't think the wholesale support of 'Team Sky' will be as prevalent then.

 

[kjetilraknerud]

Conceivably it's possible we may have Cav, Wiggins & Froome back on different teams in the not too distant future and I don't think the wholesale support of 'Team Sky' will be as prevalent then.

Fair point indeed.

 

[Wilba60]

The worst offenders for OTT nationalism is from the fans of Britain, Australia and Spain - it oft borders on hate towards other nationalities.
Such bile belongs in sports such as soccer - I wish it could be left at the door for cycling though that's hard when certain teams actively court this reaction.

Not sure how you can make comments like that regarding Australian fans. If you are in Europe you would rarely see Aussie fans, the ones that are there are super passionate, enough to travel to the other side of the world to watch races...mainly the Tour de France. Australia is a very competitive sports nation and have an excellent reputation as very fair and friendly sports fans.

The one race that is held in our hemisphere is the Tour down Under and is often lauded as one of the friendliest races of the year. Soccer is only a minor sport here and you would probably only see Aussie fans every 4 years if they make the World Cup and we have just the one team in cycling, Orica GreenEdge in their first year of competition.....so not sure where your assumptions come from???

 

[mscaviy2601]

There is absolutely nothing wrong in celebrating one's own nationhood (ie nationalism), the attempts to marginalise nationalism is a liberal manifestation in their desire to create a new world order of centralised govt. structures.

It's quite possible to cheer for your countries own riders without disrespecting those of other teams and nations.

And why is this argument always being brought back to Sky? The most nationalistic of all the teams are probably the french ones. Why do those who have a problem with Sky not have the same problem with Cofidis, FDJ etc? Is it because Sky are British? And is that not just the type of objectionable nationalism they are railing about in the first place?

 

[El Pistolero]

It's because the French teams suck and don't get as much attention as Sky who are dominating. It's like asking why the world would explode when Barack Obama would cheat on his wife when almost no one would care if it was some local celebrity.

 

[mscaviy2601]

So punishing them for success. What a bizarro world! And what churlishness from those dissing Sky.

 

[pugdog]

So punishing them for success. What a bizarro world! And what churlishness from those dissing Sky.

Success is always punished. They call it 'taxes'.

 

[luckyboy]

This is a good read re: Sky, nationalism etc.
Hard to disagree with too.

http://www.cyclismas.com/2012/07/what-is-my-trouble-with-a-team-sky-tour-de-france-victory/