Nelson Mandela

[Amsterhammer]

I fear that his time is indeed finally approaching, though I will continue to hope for a miraculous recovery.

I have been an admirer since taking part in Anti-Apartheid demos in London in the early 70's, and have followed him closely ever since.

I hope that when the time comes, we can use this topic for expressions of admiration and respect for this utterly remarkable and unique human being, and not for any petty bickering about whether or not he was a "terrorist", as some right whingers (sic) still try to claim.

I don't think any public figure has ever had a reception like this. If you can keep it dry while revisiting this moment, you're a better man than I am.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nL8Qmznec2o

(Mods - please add RIP to the title at the appropriate time.)

 

[ToreBear]

I hope he pulls trough a little longer, because I hope he wants to.
Not watched the video yet, I tear up easily, so I'll wait till i feel like having a cry.

 

[Echoes]

Lol Mandela has recovered. He can watch TV and recognize the people that visit him. Would be fun if he can surf on the net, get a passion for cycling, visit CN and stumble on this thread.

And he's "celebrating" his 95th birthday. So he made it. I would've been p*ssed if I were to die weeks before my 95th birthday. A bit like a breakaway that is caught by the peloton with 1km to go...

 

[Echoes]

Finally !

 

[Netserk]

Finally !

Tasteful as ever

---

R.I.P. Mandela.

 

[BigMac]

Mandela was a terrorist, and doesn't deserve more respect than a killer in the death row. He is responsible for the deaths of innocent women and children. He was a racist himself who used bombs and other weapons to achieve is goals.

Freedom fighter my ***.

 

[Amsterhammer]

Mandela was a terrorist, and doesn't deserve more respect than a killer in the death row. He is responsible for the deaths of innocent women and children. He was a racist himself who used bombs and other weapons to achieve is goals.

Freedom fighter my ***.

Fcuk off and die you utter scumbucket. I spit on you.

 

[Amsterhammer]

Mods, please add RIP to the title.

 

[BigMac]

Fcuk off and die you utter scumbucket. I spit on you.

Yesss, Your anger makes me more powerful.


Soon you will join the Dark Side.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

He might have been better than the late Thatcher, better than the criminal Kennedys and whatever selfish/corrupt dead politicans get their R.I.P. threads...

But... even tough "his" people got freedom, what is it worth if they can´t afford it? I am not an SA expert, but of what I read and heard, his record isn´t good. Not even average. Actually "his" people are worse off than ever. Intention or just naive: he literally sold the soul of (black) SA to the capitalists. Thus the suffering continues. His historical chance for change for his people was wasted...

R.I.P. to all people who indeed made the world a better place. He isn´t/wasn´t one of them.

 

[Arnout]

He might have been better than the late Thatcher, better than the criminal Kennedys and whatever selfish/corrupt dead politicans get their R.I.P. threads...

But... even tough "his" people got freedom, what is it worth if they can´t afford it? I am not an SA expert, but of what I read and heard, his record isn´t good. Not even average. Actually "his" people are worse off than ever. Intention or just naive: he literally sold the soul of (black) SA to the capitalists. Thus the suffering continues. His historical chance for change for his people was wasted...

R.I.P. to all people who indeed made the world a better place. He isn´t/wasn´t one of them.

So you're saying repression by white people is not worse than a system, however flawed, that gave Europe and the US unprecedented wealth and yes, equality. This is not the place to argue, but you cannot use Mandela to sprout anti capitalist rhetoric.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

RIP great man. You changed the world. Left it a better place than you found it.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

So you're saying repression by white people is not worse than a system, however flawed, that gave Europe and the US unprecedented wealth and yes, equality. This is not the place to argue, but you cannot use Mandela to sprout anti capitalist rhetoric.

Mandela did the same as the "freed" eastern countries: selling the country. Naomi Klein wrote a good book about it...
His pipo are poorer now, the rift is still there, crime is as high as ever. Nothing to be proud of. Even Hugo Chavez has a better record...

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

Well done nelson m.

 

[Alphabet]

Tragic. RIP

Lol at the people calling him a terrorist. Wake up and smell the coffee. Every politician or leader who ever made something of themselves have the blood of hundreds, thousands, or even millions on their hands. You can't get anywhere without collateral damage.

 

[Echoes]

He was a terrorist but that is not what I would blame him for because I am a terrorist myself. I meanour résistants from 1940-1944 also were terrorists.

On the economy there was the RDP but it only affected a small minority.


However Mandela and South Africa did serve Anglo-Saxons/Israeli interest when supporting Kagamé in the 2nd Congo War (1998/2002), while Namibia and Zimbabwe supported Kabila.

Did he need to do that? Many people think his political action stopped with the end of Apartheid but he's been President thereafter. Though Lugan said "Mandela did nothing. He didn't even govern South-Africa."

 

[darwin553]

RIP - should be remembered as the person who united South Africa.

 

[hrotha]

Finally !

Christian compassion and forgiveness?

 

[BigMac]

Christian compassion and forgiveness?

Dark humor, perhaps?

 

[LaFlorecita]

RIP Nelson Mandela

I would say my only true hero. I visited South Africa and Robben Island when I was younger. Very impressive. I still remember we visited a school in the slums where they sang a song dedicated to Nelson Mandela for us

 

[ToreBear]

He might have been better than the late Thatcher, better than the criminal Kennedys and whatever selfish/corrupt dead politicans get their R.I.P. threads...

But... even tough "his" people got freedom, what is it worth if they can´t afford it? I am not an SA expert, but of what I read and heard, his record isn´t good. Not even average. Actually "his" people are worse off than ever. Intention or just naive: he literally sold the soul of (black) SA to the capitalists. Thus the suffering continues. His historical chance for change for his people was wasted...

R.I.P. to all people who indeed made the world a better place. He isn´t/wasn´t one of them.

Mandela avoided a civil war. 50 years of oppression can lead to a lot of the oppressed seeking justice over their oppressors.

He managed to create a situation where black and whites could work together.

SA is not paradise on earth, but without Mandela I think it would be a hell of a lot worse.

RIP Nelson. You will be missed.

 

[BigMac]

I would appreciate a PM from the mod who deleted my post when i called Mandela a terrorist. I was serious, not at all trolling, and as far as i am concerned, a person who orders bombings and the killing of innocent people, regardless and whatever the purpose, is called a terrorist. Or am i wrong?

If you found my post offencive, then you better get a personality check.

Or you better change the tittle of the thread to, Nelson Mandela is dead and we are here to say good things about him. Only.

Yes he did good, yes he did bad. Yes, he fought for liberty and the lifes of his people, yes he took liberty from others when he ordered their killing.

No surprise if this post gets deleted aswell, but please next time you moderate one, make sure you send me a PM with the reasons.

Must have been due to the discussion of me and another member who posted here aswell by some other members in twitter.

Seriously, i had no intention of offending anyone, just stating my opinion without insulting (what i did) and correctly using the word 'terrorist' according to its concept.

Thank you.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

SA is not paradise on earth, but without Mandela I think it would be a hell of a lot worse.

RIP Nelson. You will be missed.

We don´t know that. All we know is "his" people are worse off than before. As usual, hopes were great before the change. Then came the disillusion.

I wouldn´´t call him a terorist like "BigMac", but I don´t see great achievments that justify his "crowning". Sure he was way better than 95% of his african fellows in the same position. But that is no big deal since almost all of them are/were dictators or at best "only" corrupt tribal presidents...

The fact remains; naive or with intention he sold SA to the same capitalists that ruled before.

I would appreciate a PM from the mod who deleted my post when i called Mandela a terrorist. I was serious, not at all trolling, and as far as i am concerned, a person who orders bombings and the killing of innocent people, regardless and whatever the purpose, is called a terrorist. Or am i wrong?

If you found my post offencive, then you better get a personality check.

Or you better change the tittle of the thread to, Nelson Mandela is dead and we are here to say good things about him. Only.

Yes he did good, yes he did bad. Yes, he fought for liberty and the lifes of his people, yes he took liberty from others when he ordered their killing.

No surprise if this post gets deleted aswell, but please next time you moderate one, make sure you send me a PM with the reasons.

Must have been due to the discussion of me and another member who posted here aswell by some other members in twitter.

Seriously, i had no intention of offending anyone, just stating my opinion without insulting (what i did) and correctly using the word 'terrorist' according to its concept.

Thank you.

Even tough I don´t agree with your posts in this case, you are right that in the name of freedom of speech there was no reason to delete the 1st post. No offending, no personal attacks, no bad language... I´ve seen much worse posts in countless threads over here...

 

[mewmewmew13]

in before the lock

 

[BigMac]

The problem may have been with someone overreacting to the word ''terrorist'', that they usually affiliate with mass scale murderers and all of that. For instance, one must have tought i was comparing Mandela to the likes of Osama Bin Laden, for that is the kind of person they use the word terrorist on.

Of course i'm not saying Mandela did as much harm as someone like OBL, and of course I am not happy with his death, nor have i shown anything that indicates so. It is factual, history, that Nelson Mandela ordered killings, bombings of innocent people, there is no way do deny that. The ANC bombed train stations, restaurants, and other family meeting locations. Instead, if they so wished to keep this armed uprising, they should have focused on Military and Government targets, not places where children and women hang around.

Terrorism stands for the use of violent acts in order to achieve political/social goals. That is what Mandela did, deal with it.

You probably got me wrong. I am in no way deffending nor supporting the apartheid. I am against racism, fascism, and i think it [the apartheid] was the heck of a bloody nonsence ideal, but i was just reffering facts that can not be denied. I was educated to deprecate any sort of violent acts against all of animal species, so what Mandela did, killing, even though he wanted to free his people, can't be justified. Because in that restaurant, in those family cars, in that train station, among the hundreads of white killed, there were people who didn't agree with the segregation between blacks and whites. The end does not justify the mean.

He did very well for his people, he simply should not have resorted to killing. I have nothing against civil disobedience when its needed (it was), but that doens't mean murdering. Or as i mentioned before, if you think bombings and shootings are indeed required, you must focus on high value targets, those that command the harm.