New Astana vs old Astana: martinelli vs. bruyneel

[python]

after the 2010 paris-nice, there is no lack of opinions.

imo, the best summary belongs to Nikolai Proskurin:

- It's all thanks to Martinelli, he is a genius! Very clever, experienced and simply wonderful.

 

[blackcat]

if Vino lumps in, and does his bit, Contador is safe. I wonder what Vino's personal ambitions are, for this year.

Would like to see Contador light up a few climbs with flamboyance.

 

[python]

just to clarify, the proskurin quote about martinelli belongs to proskurin junior not his dad. i snatched it from a googled comment in astanafans.com.

proskurin senior is out of the sport (and i thank god ‘coz i never trusted that bloke). proskurin junior is a special assistant to astana management, a connecting link between various sporting issues and the team.

vinos plans ? we only know what he said himself. he will support berto 100% and be happy with a stage at the giro and the tour.

one thing is obvious, the team functions very differently than during the bruyneel regime. arguably, i say this on the following evidence:

(I) vino who is undoubtedly the boss (ok, may a boss) managed to convince contador and his skeptical circle that they can work and win together. the situation very different from that sudden implantation (worse - forced imposition) of armstrong agenda into the established team with the universally acknowledged best rider in the world. no need to rehash, the imposition resulted in stupid tensions till bruyneel/Armstrong exited the team and almost ruined bertos tdf.
(ii ) we suddenly see ‘other’ riders including genuine kazakhstanis riding big races and..voila… winning.
(iii) we see enthusiastic support contador received not only from his compatriot mates but also kazakhstanis (check out p-n, fofonov was the best support rider completely selfless and invaluable).

what im saying is that we are seeing a different, healthier team.

i suspect, as proskurin jr said, this largely is due to martinelli.

another reason, my speculation, is exit of proskurin sr. he was interfering too much and even claimed to plug the team’s budget holes (read - political games) with his personal funds.

 

[KazakhNeRider]

I believe that new project is really more healthy than Astana-2009. Because one of the goal of the whole project was to give a support for experienced Kazakh riders and the best school for young ones.
But last year Iglinskiy and Bazza haven't any chance to show their strengths, the team was overloaded by stars, each of them had to receive their piece of pie in season.
Now Astana is more balanced, but as we can see it doesn't mean the team have less wins

 

[theswordsman]

I believe that new project is really more healthy than Astana-2009. Because one of the goal of the whole project was to give a support for experienced Kazakh riders and the best school for young ones.
But last year Iglinskiy and Bazza haven't any chance to show their strengths, the team was overloaded by stars, each of them had to receive their piece of pie in season.
Now Astana is more balanced, but as we can see it doesn't mean the team have less wins

I agree. The young Kazakhs know they'll have a chance to ride and contribute in big events this year - from the classics to the Giro. The Tour de France squad seems more open to competition all the time. The riders have personalized training programs designed by Pepe Martin, and Vinokourov is racing with them to help encourage professionalism.

But I don't see that Martinelli gets a lot of the credit for that, because he's not the manager of the team like Bruyneel was. We hear Martinelli's name because he's the Director Sportif for the Contador races, but as far as I know, he has nothing to do with the classics riders, etc. Yvon Sanquer isn't the media darling that JB is, but that doesn't mean he's not responsible for a lot of what goes on.

I'm watching Tirreno-Adriatico today, and I'm rooting for Strade Bianche winner Maxim Iglinsky. That would never have been the case under Bruyneel.

 

[Ripper]

Vinokourov is racing with them to help encourage professionalism.

?????

I like Vino, but given his history, this may be pushing it. Strength of leadership - likely. Dynamic - yes. I think comments about Vino's professionalism may also belong in the clinic

 

[isayic]

Bruyneel pretends to be a genious but Martinelli is the real one. He worked for 11 years with Marco Patani. I think it wasn't easy to direct such a complicated person like Pantani who was a gifted rider at the same time.

Contador has now a better sports director. Bruyneel is only for Armstrong but Martinelli guided very different cyclists to victories in grand tours.

 

[bianchigirl]

Martinelli has something in his palmares that Bruyneel has never and will never achieve - the coveted Giro-Tour double. With Contador he has another rider capable of achieving that feat.

 

[Mellow Velo]

Nice to see New Astana racing, not time trialing and wheel sucking, like old Astana.

 

[Bike Boy]

I was late to acknowledge all the problems in 2009, but with the benefit of hindsight, it is impossible not to notice the difference. It has gone from disharmony to harmony.

 

[Bicicleta]

Old Astana: Andrey Kashechkin, Matthias Kessler, Antonio Colom, Eddy Mazzoleni, Jose Antonio Redondo and the very Professional Vino.

 

[karlboss]

Old Astana: Andrey Kashechkin, Matthias Kessler, Antonio Colom, Eddy Mazzoleni, Jose Antonio Redondo and the very Professional Vino.

ancient history astana. I actually preferred them then. Once they acquired dicovery not so much, it became a bad joke that they could have so much talent and win so little.
They didn't even seek to dominate the tour. Though the tactic was to place as many riders as possible on the podium, I would have preferred to see Saxo try to set up a Andy only to be rolled by 5 Astana's in a row punishing everyone. By the time Zubeldia and Levi/Kloden/popovych pull off not likely anyone but maybe Andy and Frank are still there. Even those two are doubtful. Of course the problem would be that armstrong likely wouldn't have been there also. So I would have moved him up the order, leave Kloden at 2nd last. Kloden would have come 2nd if they did this. (insert assorted Kloden can only ride for someone else comments here)

 

[theswordsman]

?????

I like Vino, but given his history, this may be pushing it. Strength of leadership - likely. Dynamic - yes. I think comments about Vino's professionalism may also belong in the clinic

Yeah, it didn't feel quite accurate when I typed it. But there's apparently been a question in the past about training and lifestyles. So the young Kazakhs are set to train together as a group in Nice, etc. When I talked about professionalism, I was thinking in terms of the hour to hour, day to day activities necessary to be a successful pro cyclist.

 

[hfer07]

the Bruyneel's version of Astana was simply empowered by all the Races Alberto won/participated in-nevertheless in a low key-Levi got another ToC & Kloden won T-A 07 & Romandie 08
The new Astana has AC winning the same races he did with JB and the team is aiming more races with real winning aspirations, stepping aside from the "TDF as the main goal" pragmatic approach.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Wait a second. Why is Vino unprofessional? Because he got busted? Give me a break. Is Armstrong unprofessional? Frank Schleck? Valverde? Colom? Basso?

These are all pros. Doping is the status quo. Whether a guy gets busted has nothing to do with his professionalism as a cyclist. It has something to do with his ability to avoid getting caught.

Vino is ten times as interesting of a cyclist than a guy like Armstrong.

 

[Polish]

The Old Astana's results were decent I think.
Lots of Podiums...

[edit]2008
1st, Overall, Vuelta a España - Alberto Contador + 2 stages
2nd, Overall, Vuelta a España - Levi Leipheimer + 2 stages
1st, Overall, Giro d'Italia - Alberto Contador
1st, Overall, Tour of California - Levi Leipheimer + 1 stage
1st, Overall, Vuelta al País Vasco - Alberto Contador + 2 stages
1st, Overall, Tour de Romandie - Andreas Klöden + 1 stage
1st, Overall, Vuelta a Castilla y León - Alberto Contador + 2 stages
1st, Overall, Tour de Wallonie - Serguei Ivanov
1st, Ronde van het Groene Hart - Tomas Vaitkus
1st, Clásica a los Puertos de Guadarrama - Levi Leipheimer
1st, Cascade Classic - Levi Leipheimer
2nd, Overall, Tour de Suisse - Andreas Klöden
3rd, Overall, Dauphiné Libéré - Levi Leipheimer
3rd, Overall, Deutschland Tour - Janez Brajkovic
3rd, Overall, Tour de Belgique - Serguei Ivanov
3rd, Overall, Volta ao Algarve - Tomas Vaitkus
3rd, Overall, Volta ao Distrito de Santarem - Andreas Klöden
3rd, Overall, Driedaagse van West-Vlaanderen - Serguei Ivanov
3rd, Overall, Vuelta a Murcia - Alberto Contador
3rd, Overall, Tour de Georgia - Levi Leipheimer
4th, Overall, Tour de Georgia - Antonio Colóm
2nd, Overall Österreich-Rundfahrt - Vladimir Gusev
2nd, Giro di Lombardia - Janez Brajkovic
2nd, Clásica a los Puertos de Guadarrama - Alberto Contador
Stage wins:
Stage 1, Tour de Romandie - Maxim Iglinsky
Stage 2, Volta ao Algarve - Tomas Vaitkus
Stage 2, Vuelta a Murcia - Chechu Rubiera
Stage 5, Österreich-Rundfahrt - René Haselbacher
National champions:
Serguei Ivanov - Road Race
Vladimir Gusev - Time Trial
Assan Bazayev - Road Race
Andrey Mizourov - Time Trial
Tomas Vaitkus - Road Race
Sergio Paulinho - Time Trial
[edit]2009
1st, Overall, Tour de France - Alberto Contador + 2 stages
3rd, Overall, Tour de France - Lance Armstrong
1st, Overall, Vuelta al País Vasco - Alberto Contador + 2 stages
1st, Overall, Tour of California - Levi Leipheimer + 1 stage
1st, Overall, Vuelta a Castilla y León - Levi Leipheimer + 1 stage
1st, Overall, Volta ao Algarve - Alberto Contador + 1 stage
2nd, Overall, Vuelta a Castilla y León - Alberto Contador
2nd, Overall, Tour de Luxembourg - Andreas Klöden
2nd, Overall, Giro del Trentino - Janez Brajkovič
3rd, Overall, Tirreno-Adriatico - Andreas Klöden + 1 stage
3rd, E3 Prijs Vlaanderen - Maxim Iglinsky
3rd, Overall, Critérium du Dauphiné Libéré - Alberto Contador
4th, Overall, Paris-Nice - Alberto Contador + 2 stages
4th, Overall, Tour de Suisse - Andreas Klöden
1st, Team Classification, Tour de France + 1 stage
1st, Team classification, Tour of California
1st, Team classification, Volta a Catalunya
1st, Team classification, Giro D'Italia
1st, Team classification, Critérium du Dauphiné Libéré
Stage wins:
Stage 1, Tour de Luxembourg - Grégory Rast
Stage 1, Giro del Trentino - Andreas Klöden
Stage 4, Tour de France (Team Time Trial)
Stage 6, Tour of California - Levi Leipheimer
Stage 15, Tour de France - Alberto Contador
Stage 18 (ITT), Tour de France - Alberto Contador
National champions:
Alberto Contador - Time Trial
Janez Brajkovic - Time Trial

 

[Publicus]

How's the new Radio Shack (which is the old Astana) doing compared to the New Astana?

 

[BroDeal]

How's the new Radio Shack (which is the old Astana) doing compared to the New Astana?

Graph of Astana to Radio Shack results:

 

[Krap Police]

How's the new Radio Shack (which is the old Astana) doing compared to the New Astana?

Older and storing their blood, compared to new Astana that has been using up all their product.

Radio Shack is krap. But Astana is not that much better.

 

[Publicus]

Older and storing their blood, compared to new Astana that has been using up all their product.

Radio Shack is krap. But Astana is not that much better.

Hmm.....


I spy with my little eye....

 

[Krap Police]

Hmm.....


I spy with my little eye....

What? And feel free to PM it if you don't want the thread to go off the rails.

 

[Publicus]

No need. I know what's up and will proceed accordingly.

 

[red_flanders]

Contador has now a better sports director. Bruyneel is only for Armstrong but Martinelli guided very different cyclists to victories in grand tours.

I think Bruyneel has directed plenty of cyclists to grand tour wins. Like him or not, you can't really criticize his record with riders in GT's.

 

[BikeCentric]

I believe that new project is really more healthy than Astana-2009. Because one of the goal of the whole project was to give a support for experienced Kazakh riders and the best school for young ones.
But last year Iglinskiy and Bazza haven't any chance to show their strengths, the team was overloaded by stars, each of them had to receive their piece of pie in season.
Now Astana is more balanced, but as we can see it doesn't mean the team have less wins

All I can say is that it's obvious Bruyneel was screwing over your compatriot Iglinsky. The guy is showing well at TA and Hog never gave him a chance last year.

 

[theswordsman]

I think Bruyneel has directed plenty of cyclists to grand tour wins. Like him or not, you can't really criticize his record with riders in GT's.

By "plenty" you mean LA, Contador and...