NFL

[jmdirt]

The Superbowl MVP served a PED suspension at the beginning of the season.

*sorry for the new thread if there is already one for NFL ...couldn't find it though.

 

[Koronin]

Yep. That just adds to the entire Patriots cheat. Also it seems most drug suspension in the NFL are for illegal drugs not for PEDs. Could be wrong, but it certainly feels that way.

 

[jmdirt]

Re:

Yep. That just adds to the entire Patriots cheat. Also it seems most drug suspension in the NFL are for illegal drugs not for PEDs. Could be wrong, but it certainly feels that way.

I won't go as far as to say "everyone is doing it", but a majority of NFL players do. Its just REALLY glaring when the SB MVP was suspended earlier in this season for PED use. I don't see it as Pats cheat, I see it as JE got caught.

 

[Koronin]

Re: Re:

Yep. That just adds to the entire Patriots cheat. Also it seems most drug suspension in the NFL are for illegal drugs not for PEDs. Could be wrong, but it certainly feels that way.

I won't go as far as to say "everyone is doing it", but a majority of NFL players do. Its just REALLY glaring when the SB MVP was suspended earlier in this season for PED use. I don't see it as Pats cheat, I see it as JE got caught.

It's more like it just adds to spygate and deflate gate, etc, etc. I do find it interesting that most players suspended for drugs are for illegal drugs and not PEDs, but one of the Patriots gets busted for PEDs. I agree that it's more glaring when he then wins the Super Bowl MVP.

 

[BullsFan22]

Re: Re:

Yep. That just adds to the entire Patriots cheat. Also it seems most drug suspension in the NFL are for illegal drugs not for PEDs. Could be wrong, but it certainly feels that way.

I won't go as far as to say "everyone is doing it", but a majority of NFL players do. Its just REALLY glaring when the SB MVP was suspended earlier in this season for PED use. I don't see it as Pats cheat, I see it as JE got caught.

It's more like it just adds to spygate and deflate gate, etc, etc. I do find it interesting that most players suspended for drugs are for illegal drugs and not PEDs, but one of the Patriots gets busted for PEDs. I agree that it's more glaring when he then wins the Super Bowl MVP.

Of course, it's hard to say how many players (past and present) have taken PED's, but I am going to err on the 'most' players rather than a small percentage. Edelman's positive test is predictably downplayed and the Patriots (obviously) have said it it wasn't intentional, it was a small mistake, blah, blah, blah...Too bad Travis Tygart (can I call him a hypocrite?) doesn't go after the dopers in America as aggressive as he does those in Russia (even those he has no proof of)...

 

[Koronin]

Re: Re:

Yep. That just adds to the entire Patriots cheat. Also it seems most drug suspension in the NFL are for illegal drugs not for PEDs. Could be wrong, but it certainly feels that way.

I won't go as far as to say "everyone is doing it", but a majority of NFL players do. Its just REALLY glaring when the SB MVP was suspended earlier in this season for PED use. I don't see it as Pats cheat, I see it as JE got caught.

It's more like it just adds to spygate and deflate gate, etc, etc. I do find it interesting that most players suspended for drugs are for illegal drugs and not PEDs, but one of the Patriots gets busted for PEDs. I agree that it's more glaring when he then wins the Super Bowl MVP.

Of course, it's hard to say how many players (past and present) have taken PED's, but I am going to err on the 'most' players rather than a small percentage. Edelman's positive test is predictably downplayed and the Patriots (obviously) have said it it wasn't intentional, it was a small mistake, blah, blah, blah...Too bad Travis Tygart (can I call him a hypocrite?) doesn't go after the dopers in America as aggressive as he does those in Russia (even those he has no proof of)...

Oh, of course it was. I agree with that it's likely a large percentage on some sort of PED or another and that Edelman's positive was only accidental in the fact he got caught.

 

[the delgados]

I find it fascinating that a light isn't focused on the NFL. The collective agreement between players and owners are a huge reason why--i.e wink wink nudge nudge in terms of drug testing. You know--you pat my back I pat yours.

Another reason is that no one cares. People want to see a spectacle of violence between the biggest and fastest players pounding the schit out of one another. I cannot recall one single PED scandal in the NFL. Sure, there was the time Peyton Manning was pretty much implicated in an HGH case, but that story went to the bottom of the page real quick. We also have the guru who claims to have created the best vitamin cocktails to keep Brady playing until 65 years of age. But other than that, nothing.

I think I mentioned this before, but my former boss used to be an NCAA division 1 football player. He was one level below the NFL. One day we were on a golf course for one of those company day-long getaways when I asked him if drugs were rife in college football. He did not hesitate one second before saying of course. He said pretty much every player save the punter was on a medically supervised doping program.

I am pretty much sure it did not stop when those guys reached the NFL.

 

[jmdirt]

Yah, a guy from BSU who played O line for 10ish years in the NFL (and grabbed a SB ring with ERog) said on a local radio show one time: "dopers don't get caught, stupid people get caught".

 

[Sciatic]

Every. Single. One. Of. Them. (On PEDs)

I just can’t imagine that these guys who are knowingly getting potentially severe brain damage and for many face a life of a cripple as they age (almost all the linemen), are going restrict themselves from using PEDs.

Also, the testing is minimal and penalties meager

 

[Koronin]

If I remember correctly both steriods and HGH were much bigger scandals in MLB than they were in the NFL. I'm thinking a line from the movie "Concussion" is both accurate and appropriate. The NFL owns a entire day of the week. (I actually haven't seen that movie, although likely will at some point or other.)

 

[yaco]

Its pleasing to see that American sports are strong enough not to feel compelled to join the WADA Code, unlike some other Non-Olympic sports - The downside is the drug code for the NFL is ridiculously lenient and one could argue ineffective - The MLB has the best drug code of all American Pro Sports - Half a season for a first offence, a season for a second offence and life for a third offence - The NBA is not too bad, while the NHL is too lenient.

 

[Huapango]

Re:

IMO The New England Patriots have a lot in common with Team Sky. They are able to turn donkeys (low draft picks) into race horses.

 

[The Hitch]

Re:

Yep. That just adds to the entire Patriots cheat. Also it seems most drug suspension in the NFL are for illegal drugs not for PEDs. Could be wrong, but it certainly feels that way.

Don't get your emphasis on the recreational drugs.

Yeah a lot of them get caught for recreational not PED's.

But that's because the testing is such a joke, cycling looks like a police state in comparison.

Wasn't it the case very recently (maybe has changed) that they got tested twice a year, know the dates in advanced and simply have to make sure they are clean for that day.

Then even if they get caught its a 4 week suspension and no reputational damage with the last 2 non qb superbowl mvps both caught users (JE and VM)

 

[King Boonen]

Re: Re:

Yep. That just adds to the entire Patriots cheat. Also it seems most drug suspension in the NFL are for illegal drugs not for PEDs. Could be wrong, but it certainly feels that way.

Don't get your emphasis on the recreational drugs.

Yeah a lot of them get caught for recreational not PED's.

But that's because the testing is such a joke, cycling looks like a police state in comparison.

Wasn't it the case very recently (maybe has changed) that they got tested twice a year, know the dates in advanced and simply have to make sure they are clean for that day.

Then even if they get caught its a 4 week suspension and no reputational damage with the last 2 non qb superbowl mvps both caught users (JE and VM)

That's certainly the case, or was, in baseball, so I'd imagine the NFL is very similar.

 

[yaco]

Re: Re:

Yep. That just adds to the entire Patriots cheat. Also it seems most drug suspension in the NFL are for illegal drugs not for PEDs. Could be wrong, but it certainly feels that way.

Don't get your emphasis on the recreational drugs.

Yeah a lot of them get caught for recreational not PED's.

But that's because the testing is such a joke, cycling looks like a police state in comparison.

Wasn't it the case very recently (maybe has changed) that they got tested twice a year, know the dates in advanced and simply have to make sure they are clean for that day.

Then even if they get caught its a 4 week suspension and no reputational damage with the last 2 non qb superbowl mvps both caught users (JE and VM)

Well if athletes are given warning about drug tests - Then how do athletes test positive ?

 

[Eyeballs Out]

A 4 week ban in the NFL is actually a bigger deal than most people would suspect. For one thing that is a quarter of a year and NFL careers are notoriously short. Edelman lost about a million dollars just in money payable by his team, i.e. not including any endorsements he may have lost. For many players lower down the ladder it would be a career-ender because there are always another 100 players who can do your job

Anyway, I prefer the NFL's much more honest disdain of doping issues to cycling's need to be seen to be oh-so-hard on doping. I doubt you'll be hearing anyone claim "the NFL is clean now" any time soon. Positive drug tests are still "a thing" in the NFL - maybe it's partly because of the shorter suspensions

 

[yaco]

Re:

A 4 week ban in the NFL is actually a bigger deal than most people would suspect. For one thing that is a quarter of a year and NFL careers are notoriously short. Edelman lost about a million dollars just in money payable by his team, i.e. not including any endorsements he may have lost. For many players lower down the ladder it would be a career-ender because there are always another 100 players who can do your job

Anyway, I prefer the NFL's much more honest disdain of doping issues to cycling's need to be seen to be oh-so-hard on doping. I doubt you'll be hearing anyone claim "the NFL is clean now" any time soon. Positive drug tests are still "a thing" in the NFL - maybe it's partly because of the shorter suspensions

I am happy that Non-Olympic sports reject the WADA Code. I am also happy that these sports ( mostly ) provide penalties that reflect the needs of the individual sports BUT the penalties imposed by the NFL are manifestly inadequate.

 

[Nomad]

Re: Re:

Yep. That just adds to the entire Patriots cheat. Also it seems most drug suspension in the NFL are for illegal drugs not for PEDs. Could be wrong, but it certainly feels that way.

Don't get your emphasis on the recreational drugs.

Yeah a lot of them get caught for recreational not PED's.

But that's because the testing is such a joke, cycling looks like a police state in comparison.

Wasn't it the case very recently (maybe has changed) that they got tested twice a year, know the dates in advanced and simply have to make sure they are clean for that day.

Then even if they get caught its a 4 week suspension and no reputational damage with the last 2 non qb superbowl mvps both caught users (JE and VM)

The NFL has two drug polices: substance abuse and PED use. Substance abuse violations (alcohol and some Rx drugs & illegal drugs; marijuana, cocaine, meth, heroin, etc.) go into the Intervention Program. You need a few violations and failure to complete drug rehab before a player is suspended.

https://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/pittsburgh-steelers-nfl-features-news-blog-long-form/2015/8/28/9218621/what-you-need-to-know-about-the-nfls-substance-abuse-policies-martavis-bryant-steelers

The PED policy (roids, T, HGH, EPO, etc.) is a 4-game suspension for the first offense and a 10-game for the second:

https://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/pittsburgh-steelers-nfl-features-news-blog-long-form/2015/8/28/9220833/understanding-the-nfls-performance-enhancing-substance-policy-Steelers

I don't know if you remember last off-season where there were numerous PED positives including some big names (Mark Ingram, Corey Liuget, V. Burfect and of course Edelman). I don't know if the NFL decided to get aggressive with off-season testing or what but they tested & busted Mark Sanchez who was a free agent! Lol.

https://247sports.com/nfl/new-england-patriots/ContentGallery/NFL-players-facing-suspensions-to-start-2018-season-118877687/#118877687_7

 

[This Charming Man]

The Superbowl MVP served a PED suspension at the beginning of the season.

*sorry for the new thread if there is already one for NFL ...couldn't find it though.

Much more realistic, than the hypocritical doping suspensions of UCI. Thank you for bringing this topic to light.

 

[The Hitch]

Re: Re:

Yep. That just adds to the entire Patriots cheat. Also it seems most drug suspension in the NFL are for illegal drugs not for PEDs. Could be wrong, but it certainly feels that way.

Don't get your emphasis on the recreational drugs.

Yeah a lot of them get caught for recreational not PED's.

But that's because the testing is such a joke, cycling looks like a police state in comparison.

Wasn't it the case very recently (maybe has changed) that they got tested twice a year, know the dates in advanced and simply have to make sure they are clean for that day.

Then even if they get caught its a 4 week suspension and no reputational damage with the last 2 non qb superbowl mvps both caught users (JE and VM)

Well if athletes are given warning about drug tests - Then how do athletes test positive ?

1,696 players in the NFL at any given moment.

So less than 1% actually fail the test.

Punishments aren't high. I'd bet some big enough names can even get themselves off. So some will risk juicing near the testing period/ make a mistake. You get a few positives

 

[Koronin]

They can't be tested that often as one player for the Panthers was complaining about being targeted for testing due to his kneeling and he's claimed he's been tested a lot more than anyone else. I don't remember how many times he said he'd been tested (I'm thinking he said either 6 or 8 times) and the league said he hadn't been tested that many times. Which of course brought up the topic of, wait, how many times are these guys even tested to begin with. (This was a conversation on a local sports talk show).

I can't remember the NFL ever really caring much about getting the sport clean.

 

[Sciatic]

Re:

A 4 week ban in the NFL is actually a bigger deal than most people would suspect. For one thing that is a quarter of a year and NFL careers are notoriously short. Edelman lost about a million dollars just in money payable by his team, i.e. not including any endorsements he may have lost. For many players lower down the ladder it would be a career-ender because there are always another 100 players who can do your job

Anyway, I prefer the NFL's much more honest disdain of doping issues to cycling's need to be seen to be oh-so-hard on doping. I doubt you'll be hearing anyone claim "the NFL is clean now" any time soon. Positive drug tests are still "a thing" in the NFL - maybe it's partly because of the shorter suspensions

Eyeballs, I'm incredulous you think that the NFL is more up-front about drug use (or anything else) than cycling. The NFL will bury anything (head trauma, domestic violence, stupid refereeing) that threatens their revenue stream and hegemony in American sport. They don't bother coming out with an "NFL is clean now motto" because they don't even need to worry about drug use ruining the league's image, because most American sports fans tend to dismiss the idea altogether (or just don't care as long as they get their football). And they are much more worried about the hit they have (and might continue to) take from the other issues (head trauma, domestic violence, kneeling) than they ever will be about PEDs.

 

[jmdirt]

Re: Re:

IMO The New England Patriots have a lot in common with Team Sky. They are able to turn donkeys (low draft picks) into race horses.

Had I know that horrible analogy would pop up, I wouldn't have started this thread. It doesn't matter how much dope you give a donkey it will never be a race horse, plus a race horse is just a thoroughbred on dope anyway. These guys are genetic freaks on PEDs.

 

[Eyeballs Out]

Re: Re:

A 4 week ban in the NFL is actually a bigger deal than most people would suspect. For one thing that is a quarter of a year and NFL careers are notoriously short. Edelman lost about a million dollars just in money payable by his team, i.e. not including any endorsements he may have lost. For many players lower down the ladder it would be a career-ender because there are always another 100 players who can do your job

Anyway, I prefer the NFL's much more honest disdain of doping issues to cycling's need to be seen to be oh-so-hard on doping. I doubt you'll be hearing anyone claim "the NFL is clean now" any time soon. Positive drug tests are still "a thing" in the NFL - maybe it's partly because of the shorter suspensions

Eyeballs, I'm incredulous you think that the NFL is more up-front about drug use (or anything else) than cycling. The NFL will bury anything (head trauma, domestic violence, stupid refereeing) that threatens their revenue stream and hegemony in American sport. They don't bother coming out with an "NFL is clean now motto" because they don't even need to worry about drug use ruining the league's image, because most American sports fans tend to dismiss the idea altogether (or just don't care as long as they get their football). And they are much more worried about the hit they have (and might continue to) take from the other issues (head trauma, domestic violence, kneeling) than they ever will be about PEDs.

Maybe I was making too many points in one post. So just to attempt to be more clear.

The NFL do not care about PED use
Unlike other sports (such as this one) they also do not pretend to care about PED use. Not yet anyway

You are absolutely correct that money talks and dictates the way that sporting bodies operate. The NFL are now accused of overreacting with regard to head trauma and domestic violence whereas 10 years ago there was no reaction at all

Separate point. Longer PED bans might look like being hard on doping, lifetime bans might look like being hardest of all. I'm increasingly of the view that this is just more spin / PR. In reality I now think shorter bans are more effective (not that I'm suggesting this is why there are shorter bans in the NFL)

 

[SHAD0W93]

First off, Spygate and Deflategate were over blown, falsely reported, and people are upset about the wrong thing because they are listening to the false statements of others. Like people stating the no call in the Saints-Rams game was tipped when it clearly wasn't, yet they are posting a picture of a different play to support their narrative.

Second, it isn't like the low draft and picks are suddenly turning into freaks of nature. They are better coached, disciplined, prepared, and smarter than their opponents. That is why these low picks can succeed. Are they or others in the NFL using drugs. Probably, but they didn't go from a Danny Amendola to Randy Moss in speed, size, or ability.