No French ProTeams 2011?

[Fowsto Cope-E]

When I was on the l'Equipe website today, I saw an interesting article noting that there were no French teams in the Top 15 of the rankings, and that the only two french teams that made it into the top 20 were Cofidis and AG2R, ranked 19th and 20th, respectively. If the UCI just picks the top 18 teams, then there will be no french teams in the uci's highest division!

http://www.lequipe.fr/Cyclisme/breves2010/20101103_143106_sans-equipe-francaise.html

Of course, I imagine the french teams will be admitted as ProTeams due to political reasons . . .

 

[Moondance]

I think they'll certainly grant one French team a ProTour license... Probably FdJ or maybe Ag2r. The big French teams will still get invited to the most important races in France, and plenty big races outside France as well. ASO connections will see to that.

That said, do team nationalities still really matter that much? I mean we had three 'American' teams in the ProTour this year (HTC, Garmin & Shack) who have less than 20 American riders between them.

 

[Gotland]

I think one of them get a license atleast. But that doesn't matter so much anyway since ASO like french teams. I think a biggest factor why french cycling is worse then ever is becauce it's so clean. When did a bigger french cyclist fail a drug test? This is in short term negative but in the long run companies will be more happy with sponsor french teams since it is more safe. That is why italian and spanish cycling will have major problems with sponsors in a few years.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Well, when did the French have a 'bigger' cyclist? I mean, there are still French riders failing tests - Mickaël Larpe (EPO) and Aurélien Duval (diet suppressant) this year - but the biggest French riders are riders who many consider clean - David Moncoutié in particular being noteworthy here, but Pierrick Fedrigo is allegedly similarly puritanical. I suppose the likes of Moreau would be the last time a bigger French cyclist failed a test? Might be wrong.

 

[ingsve]

I think that one reason for their low rankings can be that there are too many french teams that have mostly french riders. Right now there are five diffrent french teams with roughly the same level of success, AG2R, Cofidis, FDJ, BBox and Saur-Sojasun. All of whom have mostly french riders (78%).

If we look at the italian teams of the same caliber of better we only find 61 riders on 4 italian teams (63%) where the french have 95 riders on 5 french teams. The spanish have 39 riders on two teams (76%), the dutch have 37 riders on three teams (50%) and the belgian have 50 riders on three belgian teams (68%).

A country can't provide an unlimited amout of top riders so with 95 french riders on those five french teams means that the quality must be lower. The other nations that have top teams fill out their squads with riders from other countries and I dare say that the top ukranians, slovenians, polacks, belorussians, swedes, danes, colombians etc are probably a bit better than the 80th-95th french rider.

What the french should do is gather the best french riders into perhaps three teams that are also supported by at least 25% high quality foreign riders and their ranking will probably improve.

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

any non-french team outside the PT will have thier work cut out getting wildcards at ASO events.
I do suspect one will get a PT license though.

^ I think the problem is there are too many french teams (at a high level) with too little french talent.
Maybe if a couple of the teams merged (or as you suggested scouted outside france) one or two teams would be much more formidable.

 

[Fowsto Cope-E]

I think this shows how the rise of so many "superteams" are really having an effect on the lower-budget teams, namely the french teams. It seems that there are so many sponsors willing to pay a bunch of money to make these "superteams" only to leave after a couple of years. Most of the French sponsors have been in the sport a long time but cannot keep up with the increased competition.

 

[ingsve]

I think this shows how the rise of so many "superteams" are really having an effect on the lower-budget teams, namely the french teams. It seems that there are so many sponsors willing to pay a bunch of money to make these "superteams" only to leave after a couple of years. Most of the French sponsors have been in the sport a long time but cannot keep up with the increased competition.

Well, it's really the PT that has forced this change in teams. The UCI has pushed the development so that more top riders get pushed into the top 18 teams and the french teams haven't adapted while the other teams have. It's very easy to blame everyone else but ultimately things are the way they are and if they want to survive they have to adapt.

I mean it wouldn't be the hardest thing in the world for Cofidis and FDJ that each only has one title sponsor to combine their two budgets and create Cofidis-FDJ with a much bigger budget.

I'm also a little curious how much the top french riders earn. It's not like they have any top sprinters or top GC riders so it seems that the best payed riders might be break away specialists like Voeckler and Fedrigo. I wonder how his salary compares to similar types of riders on other teams. I can image that the salary distribution between different type of riders might look a little odd in the french teams compared to other teams.

 

[roundabout]

In my opinion the problem for the French is the isolation of their domestic scene. For example, go to CQ, open the country rankings and click on the riders for France. You will see Cedric Pineau as the 6th best placed French rider and 76th in the World above people like Dumoulin, Casar, Riblon and Chavanel who were actually seen on TV this year, people who won 4 TdF stages and race against real competition.

According to quick calculations French riders have 152 wins of which 114 have come in races in France (75%). Italians have won 82/143 "at home" (57%). Spanish 56/103.(54%)

IMO it's too easy in relative terms to become a star on the domestic scene which to me seems to be another reason besides the obvious one why the French have been performing relatively poorly.

 

[ingsve]

In my opinion the problem for the French is the isolation of their domestic scene. For example, go to CQ, open the country rankings and click on the riders for France. You will see Cedric Pineau as the 6th best placed French rider and 76th in the World above people like Dumoulin, Casar, Riblon and Chavanel who were actually seen on TV this year, people who won 4 TdF stages and race against real competition.

According to quick calculations French riders have 152 wins of which 114 have come in races in France (75%). Italians have won 82/143 "at home" (57%). Spanish 56/103.(54%)

IMO it's too easy in relative terms to become a star on the domestic scene which to me seems to be another reason besides the obvious one why the French have been performing relatively poorly.

Ya, I made the same observation about Pineau. Another thing is that 80% of all french races are very flat so it doesn't really breed any real talent that is needed to win the races that matter. Most of those races are won by breaks or by sprints and since the best french sprinters aren't in the top eschelon of sprinters the level can't be that high. That means a lot of french riders get schooled into going into long breaks and while that may get you TV time and an occasional win it won't win you anything that matters. It seems like the biggest competition of the year for the french riders is the polka jersey.

 

[auscyclefan94]

any non-french team outside the PT will have thier work cut out getting wildcards at ASO events.
I do suspect one will get a PT license though.

^ I think the problem is there are too many french teams (at a high level) with too little french talent.
Maybe if a couple of the teams merged (or as you suggested scouted outside france) one or two teams would be much more formidable.

I totally agree. It would also make the french teams look more formidable instead of being a team who just goes into breakways. With a better quality team they would have more purpose of being in races with actual goals of seriously going for gc or a top 5 in a race.

 

[Marcus135]

Maybe the French will relise of they dont get proteam this year that more is not always better. If they cut their teams down to 2 or 3 im sure all their teams would be protour level.

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

I mean it wouldn't be the hardest thing in the world for Cofidis and FDJ that each only has one title sponsor to combine their two budgets and create Cofidis-FDJ with a much bigger budget.

And imagine how well Spanish soccer would do if Real Madrid and Barcelona were to merge. Wouldn't the city of New York have more NFL success if there weren't both Jets and Giants?

Cofidis and FdJ, or more properly ZAC de Ravennes les Francs and Société de Gestion de L'Echappée, are different sports clubs, each with its own management, culture, base etc. They are in opposition to each other, not in cohoots to promote their country. Sports are about teams being in competition. How competitive they are depends on their resources, but a healthy sport has different levels at which different individuals/teams are competitive.

 

[ingsve]

And imagine how well Spanish soccer would do if Real Madrid and Barcelona were to merge. Wouldn't the city of New York have more NFL success if there weren't both Jets and Giants?

Cofidis and FdJ, or more properly ZAC de Ravennes les Francs and Société de Gestion de L'Echappée, are different sports clubs, each with its own management, culture, base etc. They are in opposition to each other, not in cohoots to promote their country. Sports are about teams being in competition. How competitive they are depends on their resources, but a healthy sport has different levels at which different individuals/teams are competitive.

Well, Cofidis and FDJ are hardly Real and Barcelona but I see your point. Though I can't believe that all five top french teams are that rivalrous. Some type of merger is probably possible especially if the alternative is running around as a low level pro conti team living on the mercy of the organizers.

 

[Mellow Velo]

By getting rid of all the French PT teams, Uncle Pat finally gets the upper hand in his battle with the ASO to control who rides the Tour. He also gets to further anglicise the peloton.
Any scoring system that places Lampre above Liquigas is clearly divisive.
His agenda is barely hidden.

 

[Kvinto]

ASO (and RCS Sports) controls the most of main cycling competitions of the season (and as I know they didn't come to Agreement with UCI about all this). And if Uncle Pat will continue this circus, his PT calendar will consist of races like Vuelta a Chihuahua

 

[La Pandera]

If I'm not mistaken it was Bernard Hinault who said that the French teams' training programs are a decade behind the rest of the teams AND their riders are too well paid and receive far too many accolades for their mediocre results and thus aren't motivated to alter their programs. Instead of embracing new techniques in training, diet etc... they still embrace methods that are decades old. Hanging on to tradition a bit too long maybe.

 

[jens_attacks]

french pros ride their bike only if they are forced to.with a shotgun at their heads or something.like bbox this year.just a french pro team shoud be enough.

 

[Kwibus]

If I'm not mistaken it was Bernard Hinault who said that the French teams' training programs are a decade behind the rest of the teams AND their riders are too well paid and receive far too many accolades for their mediocre results and thus aren't motivated to alter their programs. Instead of embracing new techniques in training, diet etc... they still embrace methods that are decades old. Hanging on to tradition a bit too long maybe.

Well this is pretty much always confirmed by riders from other countries that ride in a french team.

 

[Kvinto]

I think Ag2R has to be PT, I focus on CQ ranking as the only one ranking I believe in. Other French teams want TDF invitation more.
All this stuff with PT licences is only the question of money. Road cycling doesn’t need Pro tour and Pro continental teams, there can be one Pro licence and one World Ranking. I suppose that even in the case of Grand Tours organizers will certainly agree with invitation of TOP-15 teams of this ranking. But PT licences costs money, much money…

 

[Kvinto]

By the way about UCI licence "ranking": http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/fdj-baffled-at-uci-licence-ranking
agree 100%

 

[Arnout]

I totally agree. It would also make the french teams look more formidable instead of being a team who just goes into breakways. With a better quality team they would have more purpose of being in races with actual goals of seriously going for gc or a top 5 in a race.

Why? Another obscure TdF top 7 candidate? We have enough of those. Races tend to become more boring because there is so much at stake. I rather see some French attacking teams than another grey team with more points but less joy.

 

[Mellow Velo]

Haven't we already got enough teams with false prophets?
Give me a team like this year's Vacansoleil, over a team full of peloton huggers every time.

The French teams have had some memorable Tour stage wins from breakaways in recent years. Not something that can be said about some of the so called contender teams.

Besides which, without teams prepared to attack, taking up speculative breakaways, 5 hour stages would soon run to 7 or 8 hours and the whole world would switch off.

 

[luckyboy]

By getting rid of all the French PT teams, Uncle Pat finally gets the upper hand in his battle with the ASO to control who rides the Tour. He also gets to further anglicise the peloton.
Any scoring system that places Lampre above Liquigas is clearly divisive.
His agenda is barely hidden.

ASO should just pick who they want.
Even if they're forced to pick the 18 PT teams and none of them are French, they can still get 4 in on wildcards.