"Not less than the men"

[slingsrat]

Womens road race World Champion Giorgia Bronzini is quoted as saying "We're not less than the men". Lets analyse this. If something is not less than then it must be greater than or equal to. I don't for one second think that she thinks that womans cycling is a greater spectacle than the mens events. So she is saying that womans cycling is equal to mens cycling right? Why didn't she say that? Because deep down she knows this is not true. She knows that womens cycling is beneath the mens but couldn't bring herself to say it.

 

[Boeing]

well lets start with professional tennis as an example. Women demand and in some cases get equal pay but they only play best of 3 sets and men play best of 5.


womens cycling simply isnt watchable.

perhaps someone should present ms. brionzini with a simple pie chart comparing sponsorship and add revenue between mens and women's cycling.


then a physiological study


that said , my wife drops me now and again...

 

[auscyclefan94]

women's sport is in general inferior to men's sport. people would rather see male sport than female sport therefore they are less than men and don't deserve the same amount of pay as the men.

 

[Martin318is]

Ignoring for the moment the great debate as to which half of the species has more sporting prowess...

I would expect that the usage of that particular phrasing would have a lot more to do with English being a second language or something like that rather than any weird psychological self-doubt or whatever.

Have the main discussion by all means but please don't try to assume the thoughts in people's heads. It'll only detract from the main issues

 

[Boeing]

Ignoring for the moment the great debate as to which half of the species has more sporting prowess...

I would expect that the usage of that particular phrasing would have a lot more to do with English being a second language or something like that rather than any weird psychological self-doubt or whatever.

Have the main discussion by all means but please don't try to assume the thoughts in people's heads. It'll only detract from the main issues

good point. point taken

 

[Sydney21]

I think she is trying to say that wemon are equal to men and thus deserve equal pay rather than wemons cycling is equal to mens. Obviously this is not economically viable so it should not happen because there would be no wemons cycling if wemon had equal pay to men. Not a sexist just a realist.

Her sentiment that a woman working just as hard as a man deserves equal pay is correct but only possible in utopia. A minimum wage for wemons cycling would be a good idea though.

 

[Sydney21]

I think she is trying to say that wemon are equal to men and thus deserve equal pay rather than wemons cycling is equal to mens. Obviously this is not economically viable so it should not happen because there would be no wemons cycling if wemon had equal pay to men. Not a sexist just a realist.

Her sentiment that a woman working just as hard as a man deserves equal pay is correct but only possible in utopia. A minimum wage for wemons cycling would be a good idea and more viable though.

 

[woodie]

I think she is trying to say that wemon are equal to men and thus deserve equal pay rather than wemons cycling is equal to mens. Obviously this is not economically viable so it should not happen because there would be no wemons cycling if wemon had equal pay to men. Not a sexist just a realist.

Her sentiment that a woman working just as hard as a man deserves equal pay is correct but only possible in utopia. A minimum wage for wemons cycling would be a good idea though.

Which is what they are asking for isn't it? They aren't asking to be paid as much as men but rather have a minimum wage.

 

[fasthill]

They aren't asking to be paid as much as men but rather have a minimum wage.

It won't work. Once the teams will be forced to pay what they cannot afford, they will either shrink in size or disappear altogether.

 

[Tigerion]

What they were saying was that the women's event is much more recent than the men's and the level of professionalism has been increasing each year.

By providing a minimum wage that will encourage more women to make it a full time career, knowing that the money is there if they are selected.

As for it not being watchable, I would prefer to watch the women race on a flat TDF course rather than watch a breakaway sit there all day to be caught in the last 10 minutes by the sprinters teams.
Although that is more a by product of smaller teams so who knows if this would remain the case if money improves and support grows.

This is just a small part of the much larger question that is, if women's sport received the same coverage as men's which would be followed more. Lack of coverage means lack of sponsorship, which means lack of incentive, which means a smaller group of competitors which means a lower skill level.

 

[42x16ss]

Something has to happen here. If a minimum wage for the riders is established, it will allow them (or at least make it easier) to train at a truly professional level with no distractions - like worrying about affording to live.

Anyone can see that if this happens then the level of racing rises, more people want to watch, more sponsors come on board and Marianne Vos doesn't dominate nearly every race in the style of Merckx.

 

[Martin318is]

Timing doesn't help much either. Most people - including female riders such as Emma Trott on Eurosport - certainly agreed that up until a few km to the finish, this year's women's race was possibly more boring than watching a training bunch.

However that is an anomaly I think. I have seen a lot of really good women's races both domestically and internationally over the last few years. For some reason Varese, Italy sticks in my mind as an awesome world's race, for instance. Obviously the course helps!

If we had just seen that race and this conversation was started, I think there would have been a lot more acceptance of the concept.

I'd be tempted to suggest keeping quiet until the next interesting race and then raise the topic again then. To be clear though, I think the men would also have a hard time claiming a pay rise after their race.

 

[just some guy]

Something has to happen here. If a minimum wage for the riders is established, it will allow them (or at least make it easier) to train at a truly professional level with no distractions - like worrying about affording to live.

Anyone can see that if this happens then the level of racing rises, more people want to watch, more sponsors come on board and Marianne Vos doesn't dominate nearly every race in the style of Merckx.

As part of becoming a world tour team mens - you must have a women team simple.

 

[therealtimshady]

The women on this forum may not like this topic however I agree with the tennis comment although quite frankly both men and women's tennis are far more unwatchable than women's cycling

 

[greenedge]

Minimum wages should be allowed in women's cycling. However more men follow sporting exploits than women. In Australia Women will only go to a NRL game ( best Aussie sport>AFL ) if they go with guys.

 

[42x16ss]

As part of becoming a world tour team mens - you must have a women team simple.

A great idea. I wonder what would happen if having a women's team greatly improved chances of getting a World Tour licence? You would hope that it benefits the sport more than it scares off sponsors....

 

[Fus087]

Timing doesn't help much either. Most people - including female riders such as Emma Trott on Eurosport - certainly agreed that up until a few km to the finish, this year's women's race was possibly more boring than watching a training bunch.

Indeed.
Standing at the steepest point of the course and just watch the peloton come through in one piece was a bit depressing. Especially after seeing the juniors put on attack after attack.

 

[Martin318is]

The women on this forum may not like this topic however I agree with the tennis comment although quite frankly both men and women's tennis are far more unwatchable than women's cycling

and personally, before the arrival of power players such as the Williams sisters (just for an example) I actually found women's tennis much more enjoyable to watch than mens. At the time, women had amazing tactical exchanges while the men were baseline slogging. Now, both men and women slog. boring

 

[42x16ss]

and personally, before the arrival of power players such as the Williams sisters (just for an example) I actually found women's tennis much more enjoyable to watch than mens. At the time, women had amazing tactical exchanges while the men were baseline slogging. Now, both men and women slog. boring

Agreed, before the women started beefing up and baselining they were much more interesting to watch from a skill POV.

Must admit that this year's US Open was a little refreshing with that epic semi between Federer and Djokovic though. First men's match I've watched through in a long time.

 

[just some guy]

and personally, before the arrival of power players such as the Williams sisters (just for an example) I actually found women's tennis much more enjoyable to watch than mens. At the time, women had amazing tactical exchanges while the men were baseline slogging. Now, both men and women slog. boring

Agreed 10 years ago womens tennis was much better to watch than mens.

The best backhand in the game history mens or womens comes from a 48 kg Belgium women

 

[hrotha]

Womens road race World Champion Giorgia Bronzini is quoted as saying "We're not less than the men". Lets analyse this. If something is not less than then it must be greater than or equal to. I don't for one second think that she thinks that womans cycling is a greater spectacle than the mens events. So she is saying that womans cycling is equal to mens cycling right? Why didn't she say that? Because deep down she knows this is not true.

OR - Because that's the idiom.

 

[just some guy]

A great idea. I wonder what would happen if having a women's team greatly improved chances of getting a World Tour licence? You would hope that it benefits the sport more than it scares off sponsors....

Especially when you think of the population more women than men and if you think of the amount of women riding for exercise in the last few years - huge growth.

You would think every bike manufacture would want a women proteam

 

[Martin318is]

OR - Because that's the idiom.

Covered that!

 

[hrotha]

Covered that!

Pfff, like I was going to read the whole thread. Just reading the OP dealt a severe enough blow to my IQ.

 

[Kvinto]

If we're talking about cycling, I don't see that huge difference in watchability between women and men events, but there is a huge difference in developing. I'd like to watch this year's Giro Feminine instead of the Tour's first week but I couldn't get any stream so I should have contented myself with the Youtube videos. I find it sad, because from what I've seen that race deserved more attention as well as the woman cycling at all. It needs more promotion, if it was promoted well the questions of payment would have been resolved itself.