Teams & Riders Official Wout Van Aert thread

[stonerider]

MvdP might be a better MTB and CX racer than Wout, but Wout owns him on the road now. If Covid hadn't affected Wout's spring, I believe he would have won RVV and PR.

 

[Carrick-On-Seine]

MvdP might be a better MTB and CX racer than Wout, but Wout owns him on the road now. If Covid hadn't affected Wout's spring, I believe he would have won RVV and PR.

Owns?
There’s scant evidence to compare the two head-to-head this season. Plus one had Covid and the other had a back problem.
Historically MvdP has had the upper hand in races they both rode.

 

[Red Rick]

Historically, when MvdP and WvA race each other, they both lose.

 

[peterfin]

Owns?
There’s scant evidence to compare the two head-to-head this season. Plus one had Covid and the other had a back problem.
Historically MvdP has had the upper hand in races they both rode.

H2H is difficult to compare at the moment but the UCI an PCS rankings show a big difference between the two since 2020. While MvdP positions himself between 5 and 10, WVA is 2 or 3, battling with the Slovenians (and Remco since this year). This is of course because WVA is competitive almost everywhere while MvdP choses his battles on the terrain that suits him and fails more often when he does try it elsewhere as we have seen during last Giro.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Owns?
There’s scant evidence to compare the two head-to-head this season. Plus one had Covid and the other had a back problem.
Historically MvdP has had the upper hand in races they both rode.

Well, Wout won 3 stages in the Tour last year, which they both started. Not only do i think Van der Poel would not have prevented him from grabbing those wins, it is also not Van Aert's fault that Van der Poel chose to bow out after one week, in which he could go all out 100%, while Van Aert was managing his efforts to go 3 weeks.

This is what it comes down to, it is something i have been saying for years: THEY ARE DIFFERENT TYPES OF RIDERS.

People like to compare them because they both come out of CX, are the same age (only 4 months apart) and classic/punchy types of riders. But you can go back many years and read what i wrote then, even if at that time few chose to believe me. Van Aert is the better climber (even though people believed for years that Van der Poel was the better climber because he said he was an excellent climber... when he was 14) and the bigger talent when it comes to sustained efforts. Van der Poel has more of a killer instinct (which on the other side of the same coin also has him lose interest or get demoralised as soon as a win is no longer an option) and has an endless supply of crazy accelerations. If Van der Poel would be in the situation that Van Aert gets himself in, he would win a higher percentage of those races than Van Aert. But he does not get into those situations as easily as Van Aert, because he can't sprint, TT or climb as well as Van Aert. But he somehow also is able to play it cooler when there is a chance for the win. On the other hand, he can also make some ''WTF'' decisions in a race which hurt his chances.

Van der Poel however, like i have also been saying before he won his first ever RVV, takes like a duck to water on a classics route like RVV, or the WCC last year in Leuven, where i had him pegged as the big favorite (and i'm still convinced he would have won there had it not been for his back injury). Simply because it is this endless string of accelerations with many short climbs and twisting and turning (and accelerating after every turn). On a route like that also his technical superiority has to benefit him, both saving energy as well as during money time.

H2H is difficult to compare at the moment but the UCI an PCS rankings show a big difference between the two since 2020. While MvdP positions himself between 5 and 10, WVA is 2 or 3, battling with the Slovenians (and Remco since this year). This is of course because WVA is competitive almost everywhere while MvdP choses his battles on the terrain that suits him and fails more often when he does try it elsewhere as we have seen during last Giro.

Comparing UCI/PCS rankings is useless because they both rider different schedules including MTB and CX which impacts the RR schedule.

 

[greyclouds]

Well, Wout won 3 stages in the Tour last year, which they both started. Not only do i think Van der Poel would not have prevented him from grabbing those wins, it is also not Van Aert's fault that Van der Poel chose to bow out after one week, in which he could go all out 100%, while Van Aert was managing his efforts to go 3 weeks.

This is what it comes down to, it is something i have been saying for years: THEY ARE DIFFERENT TYPES OF RIDERS.

People like to compare them because they both come out of CX, are the same age (only 4 months apart) and classic/punchy types of riders. But you can go back many years and read what i wrote then, even if at that time few chose to believe me. Van Aert is the better climber (even though people believed for years that Van der Poel was the better climber because he said he was an excellent climber... when he was 14) and the bigger talent when it comes to sustained efforts. Van der Poel has more of a killer instinct (which on the other side of the same coin also has him lose interest or get demoralised as soon as a win is no longer an option) and has an endless supply of crazy accelerations. If Van der Poel would be in the situation that Van Aert gets himself in, he would win a higher percentage of those races than Van Aert. But he does not get into those situations as easily as Van Aert, because he can't sprint, TT or climb as well as Van Aert. But he somehow also is able to play it cooler when there is a chance for the win. On the other hand, he can also make some ''WTF'' decisions in a race which hurt his chances.

Van der Poel however, like i have also been saying before he won his first ever RVV, takes like a duck to water on a classics route like RVV, or the WCC last year in Leuven, where i had him pegged as the big favorite (and i'm still convinced he would have won there had it not been for his back injury). Simply because it is this endless string of accelerations with many short climbs and twisting and turning (and accelerating after every turn). On a route like that also his technical superiority has to benefit him, both saving energy as well as during money time.


Comparing UCI/PCS rankings is useless because they both rider different schedules including MTB and CX which impacts the RR schedule.

For exactly the reasons you list, at the end of their careers MvdP will have the best classics/monuments palmares, but WvA will have the strongest overall number of achievements.

 

[Blanco]

MvdP might be a better MTB and CX racer than Wout, but Wout owns him on the road now. If Covid hadn't affected Wout's spring, I believe he would have won RVV and PR.

So we should count Wout 3 monuments, and Van Der Poel 1?

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

For exactly the reasons you list, at the end of their careers MvdP will have the best classics/monuments palmares, but WvA will have the strongest overall number of achievements.

That trend is already visible. But if Van Aert starts focussing more on races like Liège or Lombardia... maybe he could get the same amount of monuments, just not the same ones. Who knows.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

According to an article by Jonas Creteur, Van aert lost up to 10 seconds in the ITT due to the bad skinsuit made by Dauphiné sponsor Santini.

Hoe een absurde regel (mede) het verschil tussen winst en verlies bepaalde in de tijdrit van de Dauphiné

'Een tijdrit is altijd eerlijk. Ik moet dit accepteren', zei de altijd sportieve Wout van Aert na zijn tweede plaats in de tijdrit van het Criterium du Dauphiné. Gezien het kleine tijdsverschil, geklopt met twee seconden, kookte hij innerlijk nochtans. Met recht en rede.

sportmagazine.knack.be

 

[Red Rick]

According to an article by Jonas Creteur, Van aert lost up to 10 seconds in the ITT due to the bad skinsuit made by Dauphiné sponsor Santini.

Hoe een absurde regel (mede) het verschil tussen winst en verlies bepaalde in de tijdrit van de Dauphiné

'Een tijdrit is altijd eerlijk. Ik moet dit accepteren', zei de altijd sportieve Wout van Aert na zijn tweede plaats in de tijdrit van het Criterium du Dauphiné. Gezien het kleine tijdsverschil, geklopt met twee seconden, kookte hij innerlijk nochtans. Met recht en rede.

sportmagazine.knack.be

Jumbo: "That's it we must get Roglic 1 second behind Pog before the stage 20 TT"

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Jumbo: "That's it we must get Roglic 1 second behind Pog before the stage 20 TT"

Probably better 1 second behind than 1 in front. Assuming they occupy spots 1 and 2. Though Pog should be wearing the white jersey anyway.

 

[Red Rick]

Probably better 1 second behind than 1 in front. Assuming they occupy spots 1 and 2. Though Pog should be wearing the white jersey anyway.

Pog is 100% win% in Tour TTs in white jersey and 0% in yellow jersey.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Pog is 100% win% in Tour TTs in white jersey and 0% in yellow jersey.

Think about the weight of the yellow jersey. All his best Tour performances were in white jersey (or in his teams' jersey - Peyresourde).
The only chance for him to win is to do PDBF again or to completely stomp the rest on some stage (like last year).

 

[Red Rick]

Think about the weight of the yellow jersey. All his best Tour performances were in white jersey (or in his teams' jersey - Peyresourde).
The only chance for him to win is to do PDBF again or to completely stomp the rest on some stage (like last year).

Will be completely washed up by 25.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Will be completely washed up by 25.

Still enough to win 4 Tours and focus on other big races (fortunately no yellow there). Rogla has to wait only a bit more.

 

[peterfin]

Comparing UCI/PCS rankings is useless because they both rider different schedules including MTB and CX which impacts the RR schedule.

Not at all. CX is winter business for both and MTB has been mostly summer fun for MvdP but overall they had a similar number of RR days. WVA had a bit more but MvdP would have got a similar number in 2021 if he finished the TdF. The schedules are partly different but I assume they both maximize their RR potential so choices reflect their capability to perform.

 

[senna6541]

Not at all. CX is winter business for both and MTB has been mostly summer fun for MvdP but overall they had a similar number of RR days. WVA had a bit more but MvdP would have got a similar number in 2021 if he finished the TdF. The schedules are partly different but I assume they both maximize their RR potential so choices reflect their capability to perform.

On the road they have clearly chosen completely different paths - MVDP the maverick who will make very race he enters, and Wout the ultimate "professional" who chose to join a team that is now now effectively the US Postal/Discovery or Team Sky of cycling. Kind've the difference between a guy who is willing to take the risk of starting and building his own company vs. the guy who just joins a big company. MVDP just has a higher level of self-belief and that is why he is the bigger winner and a ton more exciting to watch race.

 

[senna6541]

MvdP might be a better MTB and CX racer than Wout, but Wout owns him on the road now. If Covid hadn't affected Wout's spring, I believe he would have won RVV and PR.

Might want to look up their head to head road records...

 

[senna6541]

Did you really just post a video of a race where Van Aert won the same amount of stages as Van der Poel, but on top of that, actually finished 2nd (behind only Pogacar) in GC over an actual mountain climb, as proof that Van der Poel is superior? While Van der Poel didn't have to go all out every day in GC. Not to mention the fact that he won his second stage because they actually let him go since he was no threat in GC, and still he nearly managed to lose that stage. I hope you aren't a lawyer because all your clients would be doing jailtime, even if they were innocent.

Did you really just post a video of a race where Van Aert won the same amount of stages as Van der Poel, but on top of that, actually finished 2nd (behind only Pogacar) in GC over an actual mountain climb, as proof that Van der Poel is superior? While Van der Poel didn't have to go all out every day in GC. Not to mention the fact that he won his second stage because they actually let him go since he was no threat in GC, and still he nearly managed to lose that stage. I hope you aren't a lawyer because all your clients would be doing jailtime, even if they were innocent.

Yeah, but it just looks so easy for MVDP here, doesn't it? Just can't see Wout ever beating MVDP in a small bunch sprint for the win (say for example stage 1 Giro) - just doesn't have the killer instinct that MVDP has. We'll see what happens at TDF.

 

[Pirazziattacks]

MvdP might be a better MTB and CX racer than Wout, but Wout owns him on the road now. If Covid hadn't affected Wout's spring, I believe he would have won RVV and PR.

Do you seriously think Wout could've held Pogacar's wheel at RVV? MVDP was barely able to, and he's all but undroppable on those climbs.

 

[Zoef-Lightning]

Still hasn't won an RVV or PR - the two races his career will be defined by. Stage wins at TDF prep races with a superior team and minimal competition won't be remembered. Let's see how he fares against MVDP in a few weeks. My guess is not too well.

Last year, Van Aert better than MVDP in the Tour. Winning three stages, after starting in the Tour even with training delay as a result of appendicitis. During the Giro, MVDP was strong, but not impressive. So, we'll see.

 

[lemon cheese cake]

Last year, Van Aert better than MVDP in the Tour. Winning three stages, after starting in the Tour even with training delay as a result of appendicitis. During the Giro, MVDP was strong, but not impressive. So, we'll see.

I'd say WvA had a better race than MvdP rather than him being better. All of WvA stages were won after MvdP left the race. The only stage we really saw them race side by side was that large breakaway before the Alps. In other words, they raced the race differently so there was no way to see whether one was better than the other.

 

[Zoef-Lightning]

I'd say WvA had a better race than MvdP rather than him being better. All of WvA stages were won after MvdP left the race. The only stage we really saw them race side by side was that large breakaway before the Alps. In other words, they raced the race differently so there was no way to see whether one was better than the other.

That's a ridiculous response. Giving up without a medical reason is always a sign of weakness. VDP was unable to stay in the wheel of the favorites the stage that he lost his yellow jersey. Later, also Van Aert couldn't. This was due to the fierce battle up front when Pogacar started a solo (but early attackerTheuns won) . But while VDP was riden on minutes, Van Aert was able to limit the gap on the favorites group (without Pogacar) on his own. Which was a very strong performance, as he had to compete alone against a large group of favourites. VDP does not have the physical and certainly not the mental strength to perform the same in the mountains. But if VDP starts the Tour again in top condition, he should certainly be considered capable of, for example, win the hill finishes in Longwy and Lausanne. Maybe also the cobblestone stage. Afterwards he will go out like a candle. Van Aert cannot afford that. He has to try to win stages throughout the Tour, take points for the green jersey, and also help out for Roglic. A much more difficult task. While VDP can give up halfway through the Tour if necessary.

 

[stonerider]

Hopefully Wout will be full strength at the Tour and we will see how MvdP stacks up on the road.

 

[senna6541]

Stacks up on the road? 2 RVV's, SB, Amstel Gold, BBank GC, Britain GC, Yellow jersey, Pink jersey, etc. Not bad for a guy who has basically only dabbled on the road. And of course he singlehandedly blows up pretty much every race he enters. Meanwhile JV is just the latest version of Sky, DQS or whatever super team you want to name - boring. Haven't looked at the TDF route, but I'll put big money on MVDP vs. WVA on any hard classics/roller type stage and/or any stage that is hard enough to come down to a mano y mano bunch sprint.