Offical Wout Van Aert isn't a new Zdenek Stybar

Page 33 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.
Jul 2, 2019
123
111
1,030
Let's just go back to the 1970s, and criticize Tim Wellens for putting in work to bring back a fellow Campagnolo rider for the benefit of Shimano...
 
Mar 18, 2012
38
15
8,610
He didn,'t say Van Aert should change teams though, just make it clear that with his abilities they should build a team around him for the classics, which Jumbo probably won't do since they mostly care about the tour. If he's smart he goes to DQS after next season imo. Jumbo Visma doesn't offer the best support for the classics.
 

Skele

BANNED
Aug 27, 2018
9
3
1,535
I think their team is well suited for helping him in the classics with Teunissen, Jansen, Roosen and Wynants mainly, i don't see any other teams being stronger really.
Ok, Quickstep has a decent team that could really use a big undisputed captain but without Wout they're certainly not better.
 
He didn,'t say Van Aert should change teams though, just make it clear that with his abilities they should build a team around him for the classics, which Jumbo probably won't do since they mostly care about the tour. If he's smart he goes to DQS after next season imo. Jumbo Visma doesn't offer the best support for the classics.
Who will ride for Remco in the GT's to come then? Van Aert? Alaphilippe?
 
It's batshit insane. Michel Wuyts is claiming the Belgians have been "cheated on" because Roglic didn't pull. He's talking how Van Aert should switch teams and how the TJV management should have a word with Roglic.
The decade to come will be horrible. Wuyts having two Boonens at the same time with Van Aert and Evenepoel.
 
He didn,'t say Van Aert should change teams though, just make it clear that with his abilities they should build a team around him for the classics, which Jumbo probably won't do since they mostly care about the tour. If he's smart he goes to DQS after next season imo. Jumbo Visma doesn't offer the best support for the classics.
Why would DQS sign him? They have the World Champion already :p. And today we may have seen the beginning of what's to come: no one will want to work and get obliterated in the final 300 meters. Welcome to Sagan's world. He made it. Scary good and scary fast. Winning won't be easy, he's a marked man. Fantastic rider.
 
Lol he said that Evenepoel is another dimension compared to Pogacar.
You could go work for Wielerflits :tonguewink:.
He said Pogacar might have been the only one able to follow Alaphilippe, had he not attacked at 50k. He also said they needed to keep Pogacar within range, because he would have been too much of a threat if you give him too much leeway.
He also said Evenepoel isn't explosive enough to follow Alaphilippe (unlike Pogacar). He was specifically talking about long range attacks, when he said Evenepoel in prime form, is better than Pogacar.
 
Last edited:
Reactions: Jagartrott
Mar 18, 2012
38
15
8,610
Why would DQS sign him? They have the World Champion already :p. And today we may have seen the beginning of what's to come: no one will want to work and get obliterated in the final 300 meters. Welcome to Sagan's world. He made it. Scary good and scary fast. Winning won't be easy, he's a marked man. Fantastic rider.
Alaphilippe's contract with DQS expires end of 2021 as does Van Aert's contract at Jumbo Visma, Van Aert is probably more interesting for the Belgian sponsors compared to Alaphilippe. Bennett his contract also expires in 2021 so they could take Van Aert to le Tour for the sprints and the green jersey. Riding for DQS would also prevent Van Aert from falling into the Sagan trap of being isolated in the classics.
 
Mar 18, 2012
38
15
8,610
I think their team is well suited for helping him in the classics with Teunissen, Jansen, Roosen and Wynants mainly, i don't see any other teams being stronger really.
Ok, Quickstep has a decent team that could really use a big undisputed captain but without Wout they're certainly not better.
Those aren't on the same level as Asgreen, Stybar, Lampaert, Jungels, Alaphilippe. It's not the worst team, but a champ like Van Aert deserves better than that imo, of course no one knew Van Aert would take off like he did this season. If Jumbo Visma keeps chasing a Tour de France victory after 2021 he definitely needs to change.
 
Those aren't on the same level as Asgreen, Stybar, Lampaert, Jungels, Alaphilippe. It's not the worst team, but a champ like Van Aert deserves better than that imo, of course no one knew Van Aert would take off like he did this season. If Jumbo Visma keeps chasing a Tour de France victory after 2021 he definitely needs to change.
Jungels is gone.

Other than that, Jumbo classics team doesn't come close.
 
It's batshit insane. Michel Wuyts is claiming the Belgians have been "cheated on" because Roglic didn't pull. He's talking how Van Aert should switch teams and how the TJV management should have a word with Roglic.
Even flamme rouge call it out but then deleted
View: https://twitter.com/laflammerouge16/status/1310348670404001793

He shouldn't have deleted it and he is right. This kind of behavior is a real problem in today's cycling.
Some belgian fans are sore losers unfortunately. Look at this instagram pic, so much saltiness.
http://instagr.am/p/CFb6xfih7hG/ View: https://www.instagram.com/p/CFb6xfih7hG/?igshid=1mk4a49wt3ofz


Attacking the leader from other country because he didn't sacrificed himself for his club's teammate. I love WvA but JA was just better today, WvA couldn't follow and couldn't attack from that group to get him. Imagine what Slovenians would think of Rog if he sacrificed himself for WvA after Pog made the race hard for him.
 
Last edited:
Even flamme rouge call it out but then deleted
View: https://twitter.com/laflammerouge16/status/1310348670404001793

He shouldn't have deleted it and he is right. This kind of behavior is a real problem in today's cycling.
He isn't right. It's a huge generalisation. Belgians in general aren't that nationalistic at all. But obviously Wuyts was in the wrong here. His commentary is usually pretty decent compared to others, but he gets carried away too much if there is a Belgian, or more specific a Flemish rider among the favourites.
 
It's batshit insane. Michel Wuyts is claiming the Belgians have been "cheated on" because Roglic didn't pull. He's talking how Van Aert should switch teams and how the TJV management should have a word with Roglic.
Ringeloren =/= cheating, but i see it's become a trend among some posters to knowingly pull things out of context or purposely mistranslate just for dramatic effect. *** like this should get moderated. You then carry on lying, since he actually said van Aert should NOT change teams.

Ringeloren means "being played the fool", "being taken advantage of", "kept under the thumb" etc...
 
He isn't right. It's a huge generalisation. Belgians in general aren't that nationalistic at all. But obviously Wuyts was in the wrong here. His commentary is usually pretty decent compared to others, but he gets carried away too much if there is a Belgian, or more specific a Flemish rider among the favourites.
I would agree with you if there were a few isolated cases. There are always some few people who are salty nevertheless.
Unfortunately this wasn't the case when even the president of the belgium's federation does irony like this:
View: https://twitter.com/TomVanDamme/status/1310237164236660736

He is the literally the representative of the belgium's cycling and if he isn't diplomatic then who should be.
When a tweet that says "Roglic might never enter Flanders again" gets 1.5k likes, that's huge in cycling twitter.
View: https://twitter.com/thijszonneveld/status/1310225837942288384


Being nationalistic isn't an issue unless you are attacking someone else because of it. I don't mind commentators being biased, all of them are but what Sporza commentators was not cool. I saw much more belgians agreeing with and defending Wuyts than the opposite side. Maybe belgian people are not nationalistic in general but the belgian cycling fans definitely are.
 
Last edited:
Being nationalistic isn't an issue unless you are attacking someone else because of it. I don't mind commentators being biased, all of them are but what Sporza commentators was not cool. I saw much more belgians agreeing with and defending Wuyts than the opposite side. Maybe belgian people are not nationalistic in general but the belgian cycling fans definitely are.
Yes, Belgian cycling fans are nationalistic. So are Dutch/English/Italian/... football fans. And you'll probably be able to say similar *** about basically every country in the world, when it comes down to things that are deeply rooted within their culture.

But the hypocrisy of social media strikes once more.

By the way, you realize that Zonneveld is Dutch?

PS: I'll gladly add to that, that what Wuyts is saying, falls completely in line with "how things were done" for decades. This is the context many people who are not Belgian or Italian cycling fans, might miss. This used to be, and often still is how the game was/is played. Especially in teams like Deceuninck Quickstep with guys that have been around the block a few times. Last year Lampaert basically gifted the win to Viviani at the Euros, while he was riding for Belgium and Viviani for Italy. But both were DQT guys. Devenyns declined to be part of the Belgian national team, because he didn't want to be put in the situation, where he would have to work for van Aert, against Alaphilippe. Nys didn't chase after Groenendaal because the big boss of Rabobank said he didn't want riders of his team, chase each other at the WCC, and that it was him who was paying their checks, not the national team.
The concept is also not that different from how Roglic gifted Pogacar stage 13 of the Vuelta, even though he was not on his team, but because he helped him in the break (and the fact he was also Slovenian probably didn't hurt). Had Roglic wheelsucked his way to the line behind Pogacar, and beat him in the sprint, people here would also call that poor sportsmanship, while in truth, Roglic would have no obligation to give the race away, especially not to a rider of another team. But in this case, people think it's "normal" that he did so.

So this is where the "entitlement" comes from. Van Aert has been busting his balls for Roglic, sacrificed his own opportunities on many occasion in the TDF. But even when the Tour was lost, and there was nothing more to gain or lose in the last stage, Roglic couldn't even be arsed to help van Aert keep position in the final 5k. This was also not considered cool by Belgian commentators. It's a pretty oldskool way of thinking, but it still very relevant in the peloton. It's mainly a thing of honor, an unspoken (supposed) agreement. You scratch my back, i'll scratch yours. From one rider to another. So while nationalism plays a part here, there is also a big part oldskool cycling culture that you have to take into account.
 
Last edited:
Reactions: Panda Claws
Yes, Belgian cycling fans are nationalistic. So are Dutch/English/... football fans. And you'll probably be able to say similar *** about basically every country in the world, when it comes down to things that are deeply rooted within their culture.

But the hypocrisy of social media strikes once more.

By the way, you realize that Zonneveld is Dutch?
Then they should not act like "don't generalize us" when exactly the same happens for Dutch/English football fans, the countries get generalised because of their behavior. It's not like the nationalistic behavior can be expressed in a lot of ways.
But saying "others do it too" is the classical way of trying to circumvent the issue and excusing bad behavior. For a lot of people saying that is just a poor excuse from someone who doesn't have any really good argument.
Zonneveld's nationality is irrelevant and the last time I checked Flanders speaks Dutch. I never said anything about Zonneveld's affirmation, I just pointed out the massive traction this has, it's not just a few isolated cases. Unless you want to convince me those were Dutch fans in the replies? :eek:
 
Last edited:
Then they should not act like "don't generalize us" when exactly the same happens for Dutch/English football fans, the countries get generalised because of their behavior. It's not like the nationalistic behavior can be expressed in a lot of ways.
But saying "others do it too" is the classical way of trying to circumvent the issue and excusing bad behavior. For a lot of people saying that is just a poor excuse from someone who doesn't have any really good argument.
Zonneveld's nationality is irrelevant and the last time I checked Flanders speaks Dutch. I never said anything about Zonneveld's affirmation, I just pointed out the massive traction this has, it's not just a few isolated cases. Unless you want to convince me those were Dutch fans in the replies? :eek:
Oh, so generalization is ok then. Gotcha.

I'm not saying others do it too so it's ok, i'm saying the same could be said of people from EVERY country if you sample the right minority. So the people who want to call Belgians nationalistic, the same could very likely be said of them, if a small vocal sample size is all it takes. The pot calling the kettle black. Most people aren't disapproving of the behavior in general, they go straight to calling Belgians nationalists. Like the removed tweet from FR, and all the praise it is getting, and that it shouldn't have been removed because it was the truth. This behavior is actually many times worse because it goes much further than thinking one rider needs to grant another rider a favor. But clearly you are too blind to see or to understand that.

And you were talking about the amount of likes Zonneveld's tweet got. How do you know which people liked that tweet? My guess would be it was liked by mostly NOT Flemmish people, unless you missed the intention of his post. I'm also reading mostly Dutch people responding to it so :eek::eek::eek: I'm not sure what your point is here.
 
Reactions: Panda Claws
Even flamme rouge call it out but then deleted
View: https://twitter.com/laflammerouge16/status/1310348670404001793

He shouldn't have deleted it and he is right. This kind of behavior is a real problem in today's cycling.
Some belgian fans are sore losers unfortunately. Look at this instagram pic, so much saltiness.
http://instagr.am/p/CFb6xfih7hG/ View: https://www.instagram.com/p/CFb6xfih7hG/?igshid=1mk4a49wt3ofz


Attacking the leader from other country because he didn't sacrificed himself for his club's teammate. I love WvA but JA was just better today, WvA couldn't follow and couldn't attack from that group to get him. Imagine what Slovenians would think of Rog if he sacrificed himself for WvA after Pog made the race hard for him.

He was never going to beat WVA or Hirschi in that sprint and they clearly were not going to catch JA. Why should he not sacrifice himself? It's the least he could have done after what WVA has done for him the past month. Can't imagine JV being very happy about this lol
 
Some things have been taken out of context here, as explained above.
That said, people with a wide (media) reach or official function should think a bit before typing cynical tweets or judging. To me, it looked like Roglic pulled the least of all riders in the group, but Van Aert said Roglic did what he could, so I believe him. Media this morning in Belgium are pretty nuanced, even analyze that Roglic indeed took quite some pulls put that the TV images were misleading to show he hadn't.
 
Reactions: Luthor
Some things have been taken out of context here, as explained above.
That said, people with a wide (media) reach or official function should think a bit before typing cynical tweets or judging. To me, it looked like Roglic pulled the least of all riders in the group, but Van Aert said Roglic did what he could, so I believe him. Media this morning in Belgium are pretty nuanced, even analyze that Roglic indeed took quite some pulls put that the TV images were misleading to show he hadn't.
Well of course he did, he isn't an idiot. It's his bloody teammate.
 

ASK THE COMMUNITY