Teams & Riders Offical Wout Van Aert isn't a new Zdenek Stybar

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Velolover2 said:
Van der Poel attacked with over 60 km to go. Very well-deserved win!
This is the WvA thread, hehe.

But watching DdV one can understand what Lefevere meant by preffering VdP over Wout. VdP enters a race and wins it. Van Aert, as strong as he has been (and probably stronger atm), does not win as easily.
 
Well one has a sprint and huge explosivity. The other is, in my opinion, a bit more powerful on the long run (V Aert).

But the first one usually wins more, especially if you are not that far down on long-endurance power. As they both have huge engines.
Still.. for coming sunday I still think Van Aert is a more reliable bet.
 
Mar 14, 2009
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Dekker_Tifosi said:
Well one has a sprint and huge explosivity. The other is, in my opinion, a bit more powerful on the long run (V Aert).

But the first one usually wins more, especially if you are not that far down on long-endurance power. As they both have huge engines.
Still.. for coming sunday I still think Van Aert is a more reliable bet.
The question is: Is any of those two capable of beating Sagan, Kristoff, GvA, Stybar, at the finish of the 270km Ronde?

Maybe MVP, but I don't see Van Aert outsprinting any of those four guys after 270km.
 
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Jancouver said:
Dekker_Tifosi said:
Well one has a sprint and huge explosivity. The other is, in my opinion, a bit more powerful on the long run (V Aert).

But the first one usually wins more, especially if you are not that far down on long-endurance power. As they both have huge engines.
Still.. for coming sunday I still think Van Aert is a more reliable bet.
The question is: Is any of those two capable of beating Sagan, Kristoff, GvA, Stybar, at the finish of the 270km Ronde?

Maybe MVP, but I don't see Van Aert outsprinting any of those four guys after 270km.
Kristoff will certainly be nowhere near a possible sprint for the win.
 
Mar 14, 2009
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Re: Re:

tobydawq said:
Jancouver said:
Dekker_Tifosi said:
Well one has a sprint and huge explosivity. The other is, in my opinion, a bit more powerful on the long run (V Aert).

But the first one usually wins more, especially if you are not that far down on long-endurance power. As they both have huge engines.
Still.. for coming sunday I still think Van Aert is a more reliable bet.
The question is: Is any of those two capable of beating Sagan, Kristoff, GvA, Stybar, at the finish of the 270km Ronde?

Maybe MVP, but I don't see Van Aert outsprinting any of those four guys after 270km.
Kristoff will certainly be nowhere near a possible sprint for the win.
I agree with that statement.

Well, you still have three fast finishers to beat if you are MVP or WvA
 
Bold bet maybe, but I think MvdP is faster than Sagan even. However, he did lose to Trentin in the EC so it's hard to say.

WvA is no slouch either though. He did beat MvdP after a tough cross in a sprint a couple of times. But it's less obvious. Don't forget WvA was only beaten by Stybar in that E3 sprint who spent 20km in the wheels.... I really really think Stybar would've had a hard time in a sprint against WvA if they were equally fresh
 
Re: Re:

Jancouver said:
Dekker_Tifosi said:
Well one has a sprint and huge explosivity. The other is, in my opinion, a bit more powerful on the long run (V Aert).

But the first one usually wins more, especially if you are not that far down on long-endurance power. As they both have huge engines.
Still.. for coming sunday I still think Van Aert is a more reliable bet.
The question is: Is any of those two capable of beating Sagan, Kristoff, GvA, Stybar, at the finish of the 270km Ronde?

Maybe MVP, but I don't see Van Aert outsprinting any of those four guys after 270km.
Yes.
 

Eli

Feb 23, 2018
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Re:

Dekker_Tifosi said:
Well one has a sprint and huge explosivity. The other is, in my opinion, a bit more powerful on the long run (V Aert).

But the first one usually wins more, especially if you are not that far down on long-endurance power. As they both have huge engines.
Still.. for coming sunday I still think Van Aert is a more reliable bet.
Was actually going to say this. You are simply going to win more if you have a really good sprint on you. Reason why the likes of Bala and Ala at 61/62kg win a lot of races. There is no substitute for explosivity.
 
That's basically it, yes. Mathieu will lose a clean sprint against the real (top) sprinters (as long as fitness allows it). But he will win against almost anybody else. Wout is far from slow, but he can't really rely on his sprint. I think he's comparable with Stybar, Van Avermaet... in terms of speed, which is pretty fast, but Mathieu is more aking to Sagan.
 
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Logic-is-your-friend said:
That's basically it, yes. Mathieu will lose a clean sprint against the real (top) sprinters (as long as fitness allows it). But he will win against almost anybody else. Wout is far from slow, but he can't really rely on his sprint. I think he's comparable with Stybar, Van Avermaet... in terms of speed, which is pretty fast, but Mathieu is more aking to Sagan.
Agree with this but I don't think Mathieu is on par with Sagan as a sprinter. There are only a few guys in the world I would say are definitively faster than Sagan as he's beaten so called pure sprinters in bunch sprints time and time again. As an example, I consider Sagan to be significantly faster than a guy like Trentin.
 
Well, i think it also depends on the race. I would say Sagan is still faster after a hard race (he has beaten pure sprinters many times). But in a 180-200 km race, i don't think Mathieu would be far behind. Let's say, apart from the guys that can win a mass sprint against a stacked field, Mathieu can beat about anyone. The problem for Van Aert will be, that there will often if not always, still be a guy like Trentin, Sagan, van der Poel in the final break, along with him. I think he'll face the same problem as Van Avermaet or Stybar. Pretty fast, but often just not fast enough.
 
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Logic-is-your-friend said:
Well, i think it also depends on the race. I would say Sagan is still faster after a hard race (he has beaten pure sprinters many times). But in a 180-200 km race, i don't think Mathieu would be far behind. Let's say, apart from the guys that can win a mass sprint against a stacked field, Mathieu can beat about anyone. The problem for Van Aert will be, that there will often if not always, still be a guy like Trentin, Sagan, van der Poel in the final break, along with him. I think he'll face the same problem as Van Avermaet or Stybar. Pretty fast, but often just not fast enough.
What do you mean, the same problem as Van Avermaet or Stybar? Those are weird examples. Especially GVA has like one of the greatest track records in sprints after a hard race.

And Stybar has barely ridden any finales in classics where he had to sprint for the win. Twice he finished second in Roubaix but he just lost against clearly stronger riders there. I'd say Stybar's sprint and explosiveness are actually a weapon.

Sure, Mathieu will win races easier than Wout, though I'm sure Wout can beat many after a hard race. He's no Jungels or something, who even if he's the strongest in the race, will still lose most sprints.
 
Re: Re:

Flamin said:
Logic-is-your-friend said:
Well, i think it also depends on the race. I would say Sagan is still faster after a hard race (he has beaten pure sprinters many times). But in a 180-200 km race, i don't think Mathieu would be far behind. Let's say, apart from the guys that can win a mass sprint against a stacked field, Mathieu can beat about anyone. The problem for Van Aert will be, that there will often if not always, still be a guy like Trentin, Sagan, van der Poel in the final break, along with him. I think he'll face the same problem as Van Avermaet or Stybar. Pretty fast, but often just not fast enough.
What do you mean, the same problem as Van Avermaet or Stybar? Those are weird examples. Especially GVA has like one of the greatest track records in sprints after a hard race.

And Stybar has barely ridden any finales in classics where he had to sprint for the win. Twice he finished second in Roubaix but he just lost against clearly stronger riders there. I'd say Stybar's sprint and explosiveness are actually a weapon.

Sure, Mathieu will win races easier than Wout, though I'm sure Wout can beat many after a hard race. He's no Jungels or something, who even if he's the strongest in the race, will still lose most sprints.
What i mean is exactly in your in own interpretation. Wout is fast, but not fast enough to confidently go to the finishline and assume to win against many of the guys he will often face in such circumstances (like van der Poel, Naesen, Sagan, Trentin...). Yet after a hard race, chances rise. Indeed, just like Van Avermaet. And just like Van Avermaet, he will lose more than he will win, when going to the finishline against Sagan, or van der Poel or...
 
Re: Re:

Logic-is-your-friend said:
Flamin said:
Logic-is-your-friend said:
Well, i think it also depends on the race. I would say Sagan is still faster after a hard race (he has beaten pure sprinters many times). But in a 180-200 km race, i don't think Mathieu would be far behind. Let's say, apart from the guys that can win a mass sprint against a stacked field, Mathieu can beat about anyone. The problem for Van Aert will be, that there will often if not always, still be a guy like Trentin, Sagan, van der Poel in the final break, along with him. I think he'll face the same problem as Van Avermaet or Stybar. Pretty fast, but often just not fast enough.
What do you mean, the same problem as Van Avermaet or Stybar? Those are weird examples. Especially GVA has like one of the greatest track records in sprints after a hard race.

And Stybar has barely ridden any finales in classics where he had to sprint for the win. Twice he finished second in Roubaix but he just lost against clearly stronger riders there. I'd say Stybar's sprint and explosiveness are actually a weapon.

Sure, Mathieu will win races easier than Wout, though I'm sure Wout can beat many after a hard race. He's no Jungels or something, who even if he's the strongest in the race, will still lose most sprints.
What i mean is exactly in your in own interpretation. Wout is fast, but not fast enough to confidently go to the finishline and assume to win against many of the guys he will often face in such circumstances (like van der Poel, Naesen, Sagan, Trentin...). Yet after a hard race, chances rise. Indeed, just like Van Avermaet. And just like Van Avermaet, he will lose more than he will win, when going to the finishline against Sagan, or van der Poel or...
We are talking about sprints in classics/hard races, right? Ronde, Roubaix, E3, G-W (if the race is selective enough and doesn't end in a bunch sprint like this year),...

Edit: with selective enough I mean a smaller group going to the finish instead of the wind favouring the peloton after the Kemmelberg. Because G-W was obviously a very hard race up til that point.
 
Re: Re:

Logic-is-your-friend said:
Flamin said:
Logic-is-your-friend said:
Well, i think it also depends on the race. I would say Sagan is still faster after a hard race (he has beaten pure sprinters many times). But in a 180-200 km race, i don't think Mathieu would be far behind. Let's say, apart from the guys that can win a mass sprint against a stacked field, Mathieu can beat about anyone. The problem for Van Aert will be, that there will often if not always, still be a guy like Trentin, Sagan, van der Poel in the final break, along with him. I think he'll face the same problem as Van Avermaet or Stybar. Pretty fast, but often just not fast enough.
What do you mean, the same problem as Van Avermaet or Stybar? Those are weird examples. Especially GVA has like one of the greatest track records in sprints after a hard race.

And Stybar has barely ridden any finales in classics where he had to sprint for the win. Twice he finished second in Roubaix but he just lost against clearly stronger riders there. I'd say Stybar's sprint and explosiveness are actually a weapon.

Sure, Mathieu will win races easier than Wout, though I'm sure Wout can beat many after a hard race. He's no Jungels or something, who even if he's the strongest in the race, will still lose most sprints.
What i mean is exactly in your in own interpretation. Wout is fast, but not fast enough to confidently go to the finishline and assume to win against many of the guys he will often face in such circumstances (like van der Poel, Naesen, Sagan, Trentin...). Yet after a hard race, chances rise. Indeed, just like Van Avermaet. And just like Van Avermaet, he will lose more than he will win, when going to the finishline against Sagan, or van der Poel or...
Actually Van Avermaet more often wins then looses, these sprints after a hard race, even against the likes of Sagan, so I'm not sure what kind of problem Van Avermaet has with sprinting :rolleyes:
As for Van Der Poel beating Greg in the sprint, well let's wait and see...
 
Mar 14, 2009
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jmdirt said:
Calling Sagan out probably isn't his best career move.
Sagan must be laughing at this kid.

For years and years, poor Sagan was in this situation where nobody would work with him under any circumstances and had to live with it.

Now, these punks are getting the taste of their own medicine.

Its called Karma.
 
Re: Re:

Jancouver said:
jmdirt said:
Calling Sagan out probably isn't his best career move.
Sagan must be laughing at this kid.

For years and years, poor Sagan was in this situation where nobody would work with him under any circumstances and had to live with it.

Now, these punks are getting the taste of their own medicine.

Its called Karma.
Karma... because Van Aert has been the one that has systematically been riding Sagans tails the past decade?

jmdirt said:
Calling Sagan out probably isn't his best career move.
Oh no! Now Jumbo will drop him and nobody else will take him onboard! The entire peloton will ride against him!

He just said, when asked why they couldn't organize a chase, that there are always guys that want to organize, and that there are guys like Sagan that eratically yank the tempo, which doesn't benefit the organization.
 
Re: Re:

Logic-is-your-friend said:
Jancouver said:
jmdirt said:
Calling Sagan out probably isn't his best career move.
Sagan must be laughing at this kid.

For years and years, poor Sagan was in this situation where nobody would work with him under any circumstances and had to live with it.

Now, these punks are getting the taste of their own medicine.

Its called Karma.
Karma... because Van Aert has been the one that has systematically been riding Sagans tails the past decade?

jmdirt said:
Calling Sagan out probably isn't his best career move.
Oh no! Now Jumbo will drop him and nobody else will take him onboard! The entire peloton will ride against him!

He just said, when asked why they couldn't organize a chase, that there are always guys that want to organize, and that there are guys like Sagan that eratically yank the tempo, which doesn't benefit the organization.
Thing is, that isn't usually Sagan. Normally he's super willing to take far more than his share of steady pulls. Weird to see the tables turned and see him as the guy without the legs who knows his only chance is to get away from the group
 
Re: Re:

Logic-is-your-friend said:
Jancouver said:
jmdirt said:
Calling Sagan out probably isn't his best career move.
Sagan must be laughing at this kid.

For years and years, poor Sagan was in this situation where nobody would work with him under any circumstances and had to live with it.

Now, these punks are getting the taste of their own medicine.

Its called Karma.
Karma... because Van Aert has been the one that has systematically been riding Sagans tails the past decade?

jmdirt said:
Calling Sagan out probably isn't his best career move.
Oh no! Now Jumbo will drop him and nobody else will take him onboard! The entire peloton will ride against him!

He just said, when asked why they couldn't organize a chase, that there are always guys that want to organize, and that there are guys like Sagan that eratically yank the tempo, which doesn't benefit the organization.
I thought that logic was your friend. If it was me, I'd make friends with PS, not poke him in the press. drama is your friend much?! Jumbo will keep him for life if they can.
 
It was a rather casual remark, that was turned into a headline by a sensanionalist journalist. I'm sure Sagan is a big boy and also knows how the press works. I don't see how on earth this is going to affect his carreer. If anybody is making a drama out of nothing, it won't be me. I'm simply poking fun at the issue.
 

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