Official Lance Armstrong Thread: Part 4 (Post-Settlement)

[BahamontesPhantom]

I'm not talking post retirement.
This: our amateur team had an extremely good, big climber. So good he made the US Olympic team (the only amateur).
While training for that TTT with Eddie B following in a car, Lance took a glory pull to drop another former Nat team junior he didn't get along with when they were at USAC training. Down to 3 riders and 4km from the finish of the session; Eddie rolls up alongside and asks my former teammate to finish the TTT. He did not like Lance or Thom Weisel; Lance's patron (and his boss). My guy slowed it down to collect the dropped guy (they needed to finish with 3). Lance took his next turn and my guy rotated to the front. The other two guys said "he just ramped up the pace evenly...Lance was gone....Eddie was pleased."
Lance had forgotten earlier in the year he and George Hincapie did a pro-am stage race the our team entered. That same guy finished 3rd behind a Coors pro and a very talented George H. I was several minutes back after doing dom work. Lance finished 10 minutes back on that mountaintop stage. Doped then; just not the Ferrari method. Always a fraud and there are many more riders that prefer never to have their names mentioned in piece with him.
You can be at peace with the best doper part, though.

Don’t really understand , they needed to finish with 3 but still had 3, why did they need to wait for the fourth guy?

I just find your whole argument very difficult to reconcile.
You’re suggesting that someone like Armstrong was only so great because he took things that others didn’t have access to. Ok, so how did he gain access to them in the first place? He must have shown enough promise to be considered for an uber doping program that apparently transforms someone from average USA domestic level to 7x tour winner.
And /or he was simply willing to take more peds and risk more of his health than others were.

Your story also suggests that he was already very strong at TT’s and was stronger than your friend and the rest of the team.
I think you just don’t like him personally.

 

[repoman]

So these amateurs that you rode with were all TdF winners if they just had the juice?

 

[Oldman]

So these amateurs that you rode with were all TdF winners if they just had the juice?

Of course not. It takes serious skill, talent and luck to even approach the back of a WT peloton. They were talented, invited to dope as juniors on the USAC team...they just had to find the products. Chris Carmichael's legacy and lawsuit settlements about this stuff is well known. Lance was his main sponsor at Carmichael training systems and Chris shielded his legacy until other amateur USAC riders went to court over the issues. Lance disavowed his former associate/trainer.

 

[Oldman]

Don’t really understand , they needed to finish with 3 but still had 3, why did they need to wait for the fourth guy?

I just find your whole argument very difficult to reconcile.
You’re suggesting that someone like Armstrong was only so great because he took things that others didn’t have access to. Ok, so how did he gain access to them in the first place? He must have shown enough promise to be considered for an uber doping program that apparently transforms someone from average USA domestic level to 7x tour winner.
And /or he was simply willing to take more peds and risk more of his health than others were.

Your story also suggests that he was already very strong at TT’s and was stronger than your friend and the rest of the team.
I think you just don’t like him personally.

You are seemingly unschooled in doping history. Lance's history started in junior triathlon's in Texas. Research that for yourself. Check on his ties with Thom Weisel; they go all the way to business attempts by the billionaire partner of Lance to buy the Promoter of the Tour. Sounded crazy to everyone; still does.
You also don't understand a TTT. If it starts with 4; they need to finish with at least 3 for time taken on the last rider. They did their target training time without him. He was reportedly an unhappy little t*rd.

 

[Psycat]

So what did Lance have that Basso or Ullrich didn’t?
What does Pogacar have that Vingegaard or Remco don’t?
I don’t have to dig anywhere, I’ve seen it said that club riders in Texas are regularly beating Lance. Yet he won a world championship and classics before his ‘transformation’ post Cancer. He was always a great rider.
I don’t need to dig through anything, show me the riders that were better than Lance, or be quiet.

Abit off topic but I am convinced Pogacar is a frontieresque result of bioengineering, think in the coming decades we will see it not just in sports but everywhere, humans engineered to excel at something he just so happens to be an early prototype.

To be clear I do believe he would be one of the worlds best cyclists with just regular dope(like he was pre his transformation after Vinge beat him twice). It's that or a motor because his leap in performance is just not realistic upon already being the best in the world prior to that.

 

[AmRacer]

Abit off topic but I am convinced Pogacar is a frontieresque result of bioengineering, think in the coming decades we will see it not just in sports but everywhere, humans engineered to excel at something he just so happens to be an early prototype.

To be clear I do believe he would be one of the worlds best cyclists with just regular dope(like he was pre his transformation after Vinge beat him twice). It's that or a motor because his leap in performance is just not realistic upon already being the best in the world prior to that.

Sometimes, the motor malfunction and another rider wins, e.g. PR.

 

[Psycat]

Sometimes, the motor malfunction and another rider wins, e.g. PR.

Well if he used one he would obviously one do so when he deems it necessary and it's not like it would be for entire races and unlimited power, some extra watts here and there.

But I would give him using a motor something like 20%, him just using regular doping methods 20% and him being some science project more like 50%, 10% totally clean but that's only because im open to be wrong I guess.

 

[AmRacer]

Well if he used one he would obviously one do so when he deems it necessary and it's not like it would be for entire races and unlimited power, some extra watts here and there.

But I would give him using a motor something like 20%, him just using regular doping methods 20% and him being some science project more like 50%, 10% totally clean but that's only because im open to be wrong I guess.

Or (some) competitors also using something every now and then, e.g. when they win.

 

[Psycat]

Or (some) competitors also using something every now and then, e.g. when they win.

I bet they do but doesn't explain his insane jump from best in the world to nearly unbeatable, like his increase in ability is unseen in pretty much any sport and he was, again, already the best so then improving insanely much upon that is just so damning to me.

 

[noob]

I don't know where to ask this; which team got the most hate between US Postal and Sky? Lance vs Froom.