Penn St., Sandusky and Joe Paterno

[Parera]

For the US based members that enjoy college gridiron, this is the leading news story in the country right now. Catholic Church all over again, except this time at the squeakiest clean college athletics program in the United States. Sickening doesn't even begin to describe what transpired at Penn St. I will link the 23 page Grand Jury indictment against former assistant coach Jerry Sandusky, but I will qualify that by saying it's impossibly hard to read. The extent of his alleged crimes is shocking and stomach churning, you will only be left with anger by the time you are finished reading it.

http://www.attorneygeneral.gov/uploadedFiles/Press/Sandusky-Grand-Jury-Presentment.pdf

For me this puts other sports "scandals" (including those much discussed topics in the clinic) in perspective. We act like guys like Contador, Lance or any number of dopers to be the ultimate "villains" in sport for their choices, but really, it's nothing compared to these grotesque allegations. The moral failure here on the part of head football coach Joe Paterno and university administrators is appalling.

 

[MarkvW]

At Penn State preventing child rape is less important than the football program.

 

[More Strides than Rides]

Being in the NCAA system, its mind boggling what gets noticed and what falls through the cracks. The system and regulation is there, but it assumes people will follow through on their responsibilities and values. Too much to ask for some people

 

[Parera]

Being in the NCAA system, its mind boggling what gets noticed and what falls through the cracks. The system and regulation is there, but it assumes people will follow through on their responsibilities and values. Too much to ask for some people

I don't even know what the NCAA can do in the Penn St. case. I would hope they would have provisions for a situation where an athletic department essentially enables a suspected criminal by not reporting to the proper authorities, but from what I have gathered so far this is an entirely "legal" matter involving the state of Pennsylvania vs Jerry Sandusky & the two University officials who apparently perjured themselves.

The irony of course is that this scandal makes Reggie Bush/USC, Miami, SMU, Cam Newton/Mississippi St, North Carolina football, Ohio St, etc seem like small potatoes. Even the point shaving scandals are laughable compared to the moral failures of the Penn St athletic department.

If there is ever a time to throw the book at a university's athletic department, this would be it.

 

[More Strides than Rides]

Yeah, you're right. It wouldn't be fair to the athletes/department for NCAA sanctions. The issue is entirely within the bounds of the judicial system to handle it.

Still can't wrap my head around it

 

[ElChingon]

... Catholic Church all over again, except this time at the squeakiest clean college athletics program in the United States...

Aghm... do you follow US based College Football

 

[Altitude]

God what a fvcking freak. The lack of investigation by the college is just as disturbing

 

[Parera]

Aghm... do you follow US based College Football

Yes. Joe Paterno. Penn State fans always made a point no recruiting violations during his 45 year tenure. Also one of the highest graduation rates for any college football program (number two to Stanford right now). He has been held up as someone who does things the right way. Hence, squeaky clean image and reputation.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

They need to clean house at Penn State.

This is a reall title for this Perv's book.

http://www.amazon.com/Touched-Jerry...=sr_1_4?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1320689476&sr=1-4

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

JoPa is going to have to retire after this. If not immediately, at least announce this season is his last. Not that he's at fault, but...it's time.

 

[rides like a girl]

Can't see how Joe Pa survives. As long as he is there questions linger.

As someone who was a teacher, who by law has reporting procedures for child abuse, I can't understand how A coach could do so little.

How does he dismiss a child when you are around young men everyday as a coach? The little boy wasn't a football player of his, but cant see how he gets dismissed in Joe Pa's mind.

Teaching has put kids in the forefront of my mind, still catch myself getting in teacher mode from time to time.

Just mind boggling how little concern for the children Penn State has shown! See lawsuits and payments from PSU to every child who was abused after this incident and the University failed to follow up.

 

[Parera]

Can't see how Joe Pa survives. As long as he is there questions linger.

As someone who was a teacher, who by law has reporting procedures for child abuse, I can't understand how A coach could do so little.

How does he dismiss a child when you are around young men everyday as a coach? The little boy wasn't a football player of his, but cant see how he gets dismissed in Joe Pa's mind.

Teaching has put kids in the forefront of my mind, still catch myself getting in teacher mode from time to time.

Just mind boggling how little concern for the children Penn State has shown! See lawsuits and payments from PSU to every child who was abused after this incident and the University failed to follow up.

Yeah. There was the 1998 incident, which Sandusky wasn't arrested for (but allegedly confessed to the victim's mother) and then what happened in 2002:

58 Year old man.

10 Year old boy.

Shower.

Friday Night.

Closed Locker room.

It's amazing the Penn State administrators dismissed it as "horsing around" especially in the context of what happened just fours years prior. What grown man horses around in a shower with a 10 year old? And how the hell could Penn State show absolutely no concern for the kid? From all the information available right now, they didn't even try to find the boy. Appalling.

The whole situation reeks of a cover up of epic proportions.

 

[nvpacchi]

I live only 1 hour from State College, and this has been dominating every news station, and the front page of the paper since Friday.

PSU needs to get rid of President Spanier, and Paterno if the school has any aspiration of saving the minimal face it has left.

 

[pedaling squares]

Seems like a classic case of a sexual predator who positions himself where he can easily access and influence vulnerable victims. The suggestions of cover-up, the misremembering, the alleged lying to investigators - that is essentially aiding the predator and is equally offensive. Anyone who helped this creep deserves real punishment, not just a golden handshake.

 

[Parera]

Seems like a classic case of a sexual predator who positions himself where he can easily access and influence vulnerable victims. The suggestions of cover-up, the misremembering, the alleged lying to investigators - that is essentially aiding the predator and is equally offensive. Anyone who helped this creep deserves real punishment, not just a golden handshake.

Isn't this true in almost every case of someone with a problem (substance abuse, spousal abuse, pedophilia, adultery)? They always seem to have an army of enablers. My family is full of alcoholics, and if it hadn't been for my mother finally putting her foot down and cracking some skulls, I'm certain one of my uncles, aunts or cousins would've killed someone while driving under the influence. People are so concerned about destroying someone's reputation, family, livelihood, etc by taking a problem to the authorities, but that's why police, district attorneys, social workers, etc exist; they are the professionals who WILL solve the problem if there is one to solve.

What happened at Penn State was essentially a sequence of people absolving themselves of responsibility by simply kicking the problem up the chain of command and never following up. I'm sorry, for crimes like this, it's simply not good enough.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

JoPa is going to have to retire after this. If not immediately, at least announce this season is his last. Not that he's at fault, but...it's time.

Yeah, I'd agree. He's what 92 years old and his longevity as a coach is amazing. I always wondered what could make him quit while he was still passionate about the game and coaching. I think this could be it.

EDIT: OK I was off a few years... 84 YO not 92

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Completely agree with Parera and Pedaling Squares. This follows a classic case of abuse, and if not an outright cover-up, absolute total negligence. I believe the only solution for the school - beyond the justice investigation - is to accept a near total overturn of everyone possible associated with this in any way. The sooner they can resign, the better it will be for everyone, including themselves in the long run.

I think this also includes JoPa. I can't believe he knew about anything, and it's a bit much to say an 84 year old man should be investigating such things. But by that same token, if he's "young enough" to coach, he should have been young enough to potentially be aware of misconduct. And the sooner he announces his retirement, the better. He's the only one in this mess though that I believe could say he'll retire at the conclusion of the last game of the season. Maybe. But that announcement should come now.

 

[rides like a girl]

Local Los Angeles night news, showed Joe Pa talking from his living room window. He mumbled, as he spoke. Sounded like he said he or they didn't deserve this and something about say a prayer for the kids. Sportscaster also said now as many as 17 possible victims have come forward.

A bit late to show concern for the kids.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Paterno announced today that he would retire at the end of the season. Though the board of trustees could force him out, I doubt that will happen. He's by far the biggest name, but one of the least culpable people involved.

Everyone else involved should come forward, and those involved in any way at Penn State during that time should immediately resign, and offer full cooperation.

Sandusky however maintains his innocence, even though the GJ indictment is very damming.

 

[ElChingon]

Yes. Joe Paterno. Penn State fans always made a point no recruiting violations during his 45 year tenure. Also one of the highest graduation rates for any college football program (number two to Stanford right now). He has been held up as someone who does things the right way. Hence, squeaky clean image and reputation.

You need to talk in private with any decent college player who was on scholarship to play football. Once you do, you'll see what I'm talking about. I had friends who told me everything, there is no clean college athletics dept., only dept's who hide it better than others.

Good to hear Joe Pat. retired, the old guard which allowed that kind of BS needs to be cleared out en-mass, totally unacceptable, their antics rank right up there with the priests who get caught with the same BS and are let go or pay off their victims and families.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Heard one pundit today saying the people who really should resign include the board of trustees overseeing this. And that brings up an interesting point. I'm reminded of not just the Catholic church problems, but tragedies like Abu Ghraib or My Lai for that matter, where the grunts received harsh punishment, with many of the senior up's able to say "I didn't have any idea" with minimal consequences. In this case, Curley, Schultz and many of the others are entirely culpable of horrific negligence. But who was on the board of trustees at the time? Who were overseeing these people (notably Curley and Schultz) at that time? They have to be held accountable to some degree as well for hiring such incompetent individuals, and being what now is arguably willfully ignorant of their subordinates horrific negligence.

Equally culpable are officers and states attorneys who knew of the case, but failed to pursue it. Absolutely inexcusable in the worst possible way.

Timeline here (Warning: may be disturbing to read).

 

[Merckx index]

Discussion of legal issues. Some interesting parallels or potential parallels to Armstrong case:

It should be reiterated that Paterno is at least publicly regarded by law enforcement authorities as a witness, rather than as a possible defendant; if authorities thought his actions clearly violated the law, he would have already been charged, just like Curley and former Penn State senior vice president of business and finance Gary Schultz. For purposes of obstruction of justice, Paterno also benefits from Pennsylvania's statute of limitations, which prevents authorities from charging individuals with crimes after a period of years. Although the length of years can be extended or "tolled" under certain circumstances, authorities would likely encounter difficulty charging Paterno nearly 10 years after the 2002 incident. Statute of limitations would not help Paterno deflect perjury charges, however, as his grand jury testimony occurred within the last year, thereby clearly falling within the applicable five-year statute of limitations.

Nonetheless, the potential exists for Paterno to face both perjury and obstruction of justice charges, especially as the investigation intensifies and as other witnesses, as well as defendants and potential defendants, talk. Also, should Curley and Schultz and, if eventually charged, university president Graham Spanier seek plea deals, they may be willing to implicate Paterno in exchange for more favorable treatment. Paterno, conversely, could seek the same type of arrangement with prosecutors, implicating Curley, Schultz et al. in exchange for avoiding prosecution. It is thus very possible that Penn State officials who worked closely together may wind up in a "prisoner's dilemma" where they will have an incentive to cut a deal and implicate their former colleagues before those former colleagues cut a deal and implicate them.

Paterno may have nonetheless violated the Child Protective Services Law by failing to tell Curley the specific story as told by McQueary and by failing to provide known information about the nature and extent of the suspected abuse. As discussed above, if McQueary's testimony is true, Paterno appeared to downplay the severity of the incident while speaking with Curley. His portrayal seemed incomplete, if not outright disingenuous. Also, while Paterno made his initial report of the suspected child abuse to Curley by phone, any written communications would have required the known information.

Sandusky's alleged victims could file lawsuits against Penn State for negligently failing to protect them from Sandusky. Under tort law, employers have a duty to prevent their employees from committing crimes or civil harms on others while their employees are engaged in their employment. Even after Sandusky retired, Penn State, by allowing him on campus despite questions about his treatment of children, could have breached a duty of care to children whom Sandusky allegedly abused. Penn State, for its part, could maintain that it took preventative steps, including prohibiting Sandusky from bringing children to campus and taking away his keys to university facilities. It could also portray Sandusky as no longer an employee but rather a retired individual who was permitted to use a very limited range of campus resources.

The alleged victims could also sue Paterno on similar grounds. While Paterno was not technically Sandusky's "boss" after 1999, it seems plausible to assume that Sandusky -- still actively involved with the team, albeit in an informal capacity -- continued to view himself as Paterno's subordinate. Victims of Sandusky could allege that Paterno negligently failed to protect them or to adequately warn authorities of Sandusky's alleged abuse of children.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/20...nn/11/09/joe.paterno/index.html#ixzz1dKW31KR3

 

[rhubroma]

Aghm... do you follow US based College Football

Yes, this is what I thought too.

Pretty naive. I honestly can say this wasn't surprising. Incredible, but unfortunately not surprising.

Football progams, already at the high school level, are a perversion, a sickness to which thousands of youth succumb quite willingly, because they feel it's their only salvation.

And what a ghastly mentality prevails among the coaching staffs. Its like being in the marines! They can do unimaginable harm to a youth's mind.

Speaking of which, remember Pat Tillman.

 

[ElChingon]

Timeline here (Warning: may be disturbing to read).

They should all retire now! From the coaching staff to the whole admin who knew and the cops! Freaking ridiculous! Surprised if anyone shows up at the next game, or they shouldn't show up or I feel they'll be supporting this mess. Time for some players to seek a new school, this is going to get ugly fast.

 

[veganrob]

Joe Pa officially gone.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/45233522#45233522