Giro d'Italia Poll: Blockhaus climbing time

[VayaVayaVaya]

Well we were pretty much all right (and wrong). Poll majority was right; written comments largely too conservative.

 

[Rou]

Just shows how meaningless climbing times are in cycling. The ultimate metric remains time gaps to your opponents.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

38'25''. Conditions must have been good for Vingo and Gall.

 

[Red Rick]

38'25''. Conditions must have been good for Vingo and Gall.

Just shows how meaningless climbing times are in cycling.

Like clockwork

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Like clockwork

Well, I expected 39' but also a much bigger gap to the second. Who didn't? I'm not that surprised by the final time but more by the gap.

 

[Red Rick]

Well, I expected 39' but also a much bigger gap to the second. Who didn't? I'm not that surprised by the final time but more by the gap.

W2W has 39'05 btw

 

[Krzysztof_O]

W2W has 39'05 btw

My time was 2 seconds less than Eurosport's (I started just after that sharp turn) so I added 2 seconds to it. Maybe the starting point should've been earlier.

 

[Peyresourde]

My time was 2 seconds less than Eurosport's (I started just after that sharp turn) so I added 2 seconds to it. Maybe the starting point should've been earlier.

The starting point for the full climb was not shown on TV, the timing on screen only started from the village. I have around 39'04 for now.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

The starting point for the full climb was not shown on TV, the timing on screen only started from the village. I have around 39'04 for now.

Thanks for making this clear. Darn, I was close.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

Oh OK I thought I saw it was like 38:20ish somewhere

 

[Red Rick]

Looks like @YavorD is the winner.

Meanwhile, the W2W indeces are doing a funny, giving everyone and their mom a PB or an SB because of the +6 index.

Spoiler

1		Jonas Vingegaard SB	0:39:05	6.43	21.06	1770	97 6
2		Felix Gall PB	0:39:18	6.39	20.94	1760	96 6
3		Jai Hindley PB	0:40:07	6.25	20.52	1724	92 6
4		Giulio Pellizzari PB	0:40:10	6.24	20.49	1722	92 6
5		Ben O'Connor PB	''	6.24	20.49	1722	92 6
6		Mathys Rondel PB	0:40:34	6.17	20.29	1705	90 6
7		Giulio Ciccone PB	0:40:45	6.14	20.20	1698	89 6
8		Derek Gee PB	0:40:47	6.13	20.18	1696	88 6
9		Thymen Arensman SB	0:40:49	6.13	20.16	1695	88 6
10		Michael Storer SB

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

Just shows how meaningless climbing times are in cycling. The ultimate metric remains time gaps to your opponents.

Yes, and this is why the Remco fans keep being disappointed by his post 2024 Tour climbing. If you focus on climbing times and record in the 2024 Tour, you conclude that Pogacar is amazing, but also Remco is better than Pantani and an all-time top 10 climber. If you focus on gaps, you conclude that Pogacar is a dominant force, and Remco a few steps down. Losing 3 minutes on a climb =/= evidence of being an all-time top climber. The second conclusion is much more accurate. The best picture is when you put it all together of course.

This was a good climb from Vingegaard but the gaps don't lie; he is not riding at 2023 Tour level.

 

[canina82]

Yes, and this is why the Remco fans keep being disappointed by his post 2024 Tour climbing. If you focus on climbing times and record in the 2024 Tour, you conclude that Pogacar is amazing, but also Remco is better than Pantani and an all-time top 10 climber. If you focus on gaps, you conclude that Pogacar is a dominant force, and Remco a few steps down. Losing 3 minutes on a climb =/= evidence of being an all-time top climber. The second conclusion is much more accurate. The best picture is when you put it all together of course.

This was a good climb from Vingegaard but the gaps don't lie; he is not riding at 2023 Tour level.

Unless he makes a significant improvement, he is not going to win the Tour.

 

[Red Rick]

Yes, and this is why the Remco fans keep being disappointed by his post 2024 Tour climbing. If you focus on climbing times and record in the 2024 Tour, you conclude that Pogacar is amazing, but also Remco is better than Pantani and an all-time top 10 climber. If you focus on gaps, you conclude that Pogacar is a dominant force, and Remco a few steps down. Losing 3 minutes on a climb =/= evidence of being an all-time top climber. The second conclusion is much more accurate. The best picture is when you put it all together of course.

This was a good climb from Vingegaard but the gaps don't lie; he is not riding at 2023 Tour level.

It would be silly to extrapolate everything from a super windy climb at the end of a 244 stage that didn't really make that we see once every 10 years.

Coll de Pall was much better than this, and much more representative of a normal mountain stage.

 

[EddyMazzoleni]

Looks like @YavorD is the winner.

Meanwhile, the W2W indeces are doing a funny, giving everyone and their mom a PB or an SB because of the +6 index.

Spoiler

1		Jonas Vingegaard SB	0:39:05	6.43	21.06	1770	97 6
2		Felix Gall PB	0:39:18	6.39	20.94	1760	96 6
3		Jai Hindley PB	0:40:07	6.25	20.52	1724	92 6
4		Giulio Pellizzari PB	0:40:10	6.24	20.49	1722	92 6
5		Ben O'Connor PB	''	6.24	20.49	1722	92 6
6		Mathys Rondel PB	0:40:34	6.17	20.29	1705	90 6
7		Giulio Ciccone PB	0:40:45	6.14	20.20	1698	89 6
8		Derek Gee PB	0:40:47	6.13	20.18	1696	88 6
9		Thymen Arensman SB	0:40:49	6.13	20.16	1695	88 6
10		Michael Storer SB

I was just a second off, my mom's going to be so proud.
As far as performance indeces, goes, I think it's basically impossible to include all the possible variable, like yes the stage was long, but it was also raced quite easily, but than again weather was quite bad. Still I think that, at parity of time, todays performance should be rated higher than the one in 2017.

 

[GroupDK]

Vingegaard's biggest force is recovery; it usually tends to be in the latter half of Grand Tours that he accelerates.
So Im kind of puzzled that people expect him to peak on the first mountain stage in the first week of a grand tour, as that makes little sense from his narrative.

Sure, he is good, but he aint god, and I think Visma is pretty okay with how this evolved... beautiful mountain-stage win and a tactic that more or less evolved as planned, and Bahrain/EULALIO in the Jersey with +3 minutes, so they dont have to use too much time on all the mandatory jersey promo.

 

[Netserk]

Unless he makes a significant improvement, he is not going to win the Tour.

i dont expect him to make the same jump between giro and tour as pogi did two years ago , but if he will do so then he could end up stronger than pogi was in 2024

 

[pastronef]

Hindley 2 minutes faster than himself 2022

 

[canina82]

i dont expect him to make the same jump between giro and tour as pogi did two years ago , but if he will do so then he could end up stronger than pogi was in 2024

I know you are a big Vingegaard fan but I really think he is not approaching this Giro like Pogacar in 2024. For example today, Vingegaard looked very laboured in the final 2-3 km, I never saw Pogacar grimacing a single time in the Giro. I can be wrong and I hope to be wrong (Pogacar vs Vingegaard is probably the best rivalry I have ever seen) but I don't think he has another gear (he can improve but only marginally).

 

[Berniece]

I know you are a big Vingegaard fan but I really think he is not approaching this Giro like Pogacar in 2024. For example today, Vingegaard looked very laboured in the final 2-3 km, I never saw Pogacar grimacing a single time in the Giro. I can be wrong and I hope to be wrong (Pogacar vs Vingegaard is probably the best rivalry I have ever seen) but I don't think he has another gear (he can improve but only marginally).

Pogacar’s biggest opponents were Martinez and Thomas… not comparable to this

 

[SHAD0W93]

Pogacar’s biggest opponents were Martinez and Thomas… not comparable to this

This startlist is just as bad as 2024.

 

[canina82]

This startlist is just as bad as 2024.

Thomas was very close to win the Giro in 2023.

 

[SHAD0W93]

Thomas was very close to win the Giro in 2023.

And some either picked him to win or give Pogacar a run for his money. But before 2022 Pogacar was clearly a step up from Thomas. Basically a better Gall and Pelli is in the Martinez role.

 

[Brullnux]

Thomas was very close to win the Giro in 2023.

G fell off quite hard in those twelve months. The startlist this year is not tons better, especially in terms of depth, but I think even Hindley is just better than G or Martinez that year.

 

[Brullnux]

Thomas was very close to win the Giro in 2023.

G fell off quite hard in those twelve months. The startlist this year is not tons better, especially in terms of depth, but I think even Hindley is just better than G or Martinez that year.