Potential reactions to Armstrong news...

[Berzin]

Let's jump ahead for a minute to speculate on a few things.

Let's say for the sake of argument that Armstrong will be exposed. As far as I'm concerned, this is inevitable. The actual legal wrangling may take years, as we've seen with BALCO, but we will know the testimony provided by the main players much earlier than that.

He may or may not do jail time or just cop a plea, though I cannot for the life of me see him doing this.

But there have been people, major people in the sport, who have supported him throughout the years. People like Eddy Merckx for example.

They will be asked for opinions on the matter. What do you think they will say? I don't think it will be possible to take an apologist view or avoid the matter altogether. They will be confronted with their own hypocrisy eventually.

What would someone like Chris Carmichael say? Let's be real, this guy has built a career on Armstrong's back and himself has been involved in an out-of-court settlement involving doping. Will people begin to doubt him and his so-called "expertise"? How would he be able to weasel his way out of this?

Will someone like him be able to continue with his career with a straight face, or will people judge him accordingly for all the lies he's propagated over the years? Will it affect his bottom line?

What about Liggett, Sherwen, Roll and Watson? These are men who, after all, have blindly gone on record saying the support him unequivocally and believe he never doped, but they are still involved in cycling and still make their living from it.

How will they be able to brush this aside and continue working? Will people hold their feet to the fire and demand answers?

Does anyone think they'll go on stating he's the greatest tour rider ever and he was only doing what everyone else was doing, so everything evened itself out?

What about his cancer foundation? Will it fold from people being upset they've been lied to all these years or will they keep believing and donating money to the cause?

 

[rhubroma]

They will all fiegn ignorance and everything will carry on as before.

 

[fatandfast]

Berzin..you know about due process as well as discovery proceedures.LA is not charged with anything so even best/worst case he will not be "exposed" within a few years. Once he gets charged..if he does..he will get at least an extra year to go to France,Spain and Italy and ask a different series of questions to the same people that Novitzky has had access to..his PI's will have time to defend the king.

 

[Cobblestoned]

Some people would say what people want to hear, and some people will say what they think.
I prefer second type of people - no matter what.

But see fatandfast's post, dear prayin-berzin. Dream and pray on.

You can better dream while asleep and pray in church.

 

[Señor_Contador]

Lance will walk free.

He'll stay out of the limelight for a few years until the dust settles and his doping will only be a footnote, at most.

Which is the way it's supposed to be IMO.

Even though I despise the guy.

Really, really despise him.

 

[sartain]

Let's jump ahead for a minute to speculate on a few things.

Let's say for the sake of argument that Armstrong will be exposed. As far as I'm concerned, this is inevitable. The actual legal wrangling may take years, as we've seen with BALCO, but we will know the testimony provided by the main players much earlier than that.

He may or may not do jail time or just cop a plea, though I cannot for the life of me see him doing this.

But there have been people, major people in the sport, who have supported him throughout the years. People like Eddy Merckx for example.

They will be asked for opinions on the matter. What do you think they will say? I don't think it will be possible to take an apologist view or avoid the matter altogether. They will be confronted with their own hypocrisy eventually.

What would someone like Chris Carmichael say? Let's be real, this guy has built a career on Armstrong's back and himself has been involved in an out-of-court settlement involving doping. Will people begin to doubt him and his so-called "expertise"? How would he be able to weasel his way out of this?

Will someone like him be able to continue with his career with a straight face, or will people judge him accordingly for all the lies he's propagated over the years? Will it affect his bottom line?

What about Liggett, Sherwen, Roll and Watson? These are men who, after all, have blindly gone on record saying the support him unequivocally and believe he never doped, but they are still involved in cycling and still make their living from it.

How will they be able to brush this aside and continue working? Will people hold their feet to the fire and demand answers?

Does anyone think they'll go on stating he's the greatest tour rider ever and he was only doing what everyone else was doing, so everything evened itself out?

What about his cancer foundation? Will it fold from people being upset they've been lied to all these years or will they keep believing and donating money to the cause?

I think we are all going to be very disappointed in the outcome. One needs only to look at the recent Michael Vick case to see how this could all play out, and there is no way LA even goes to jail. Society is full of people that don't bother to read and think critically; that is how so many politicians get elected to office.

 

[Hugh Januss]

Some people would say what people want to hear, and some people will say what they think.
I prefer second type of people - no matter what.

But see fatandfast's post, dear prayin-berzin. Dream and pray on.

You can better dream while asleep and pray in church.

A better question might be, Cobblestoned, when LA is exposed as a lying sack of dung and it is clear that his whole persona was a PR stunt, will you continue to worship him as you do now, as evidenced by your choice of avatar? Or did you choose it simply in an attempt to piss off people who had already seen through the smoke screen?

 

[Anonymous]

I think that sherwen and ligget will roll out the excuses in four parts

part 1 - "this is all a little bit suspicious, he was the worlds most tested athlete and never once tested positive "

part 2 - "landis out of spite has destroyed cycling"

part 3 - "ullrich, riis etc were all doping so lance is still the best"

and when all else fails

part 4 - "we mustnt let this take away all the wonderful work he has done for cancer"

 

[MD FACG FACP]

It all depends on the depth of his role in it all. I have to believe it's gone way beyond a case of simple doping at this point. The fanboys will cry foul. People like Phil will probably say he won on a level playing field and raising cancer awareness (?) makes everything ok.

As for Lance, he could probably careless. With 100 million in the bank and an endless supply of fools to kiss his a$$. I doubt anything will change for him.

 

[TubularBills]

An asterisk will appear next to all 7 of his tainted TDF Titles.

ASO will sue and win for the return of all prize monies.

USPS will win a suit for breach of contract and the return of all sponsorship dollars.

SCA will tender a civil suit, win and recoup their original settlement + damages.

LA will declare bankruptcy.

An Investigative Journalist will publish, "ScamStrong," a meticulously researched expose outlining the LiveStrong, DemandMedia, LAF "Awareness" Scam, insider dealings, corruptions, conflicts of interest, mis-allocation of funds, etc. The legitimate cancer community and charities will be outraged. Donations will subside to a trickle and... LAF and LS.org will quietly fold.

LA will spend the rest of his years living in obscurity, talking to himself and chattering repeatedly, "most tested athlete, never tested positive..." while polishing his seven bowls and one ball, surrounded by mirrors.

Clinic posts will drop to an all time low, due to lack of interest.

 

[sartain]

An asterisk will appear next to all 7 of his tainted TDF Titles.

ASO will sue and win for the return of all prize monies.

USPS will win a suit for breach of contract and the return of all sponsorship dollars.

SCA will tender a civil suit, win and recoup their original settlement + damages.

LA will declare bankruptcy.

An Investigative Journalist will publish, "ScamStrong," a meticulously researched expose outlining the LiveStrong, DemandMedia, LAF "Awareness" Scam, insider dealings, corruptions, conflicts of interest, mis-allocation of funds, etc. The legitimate cancer community and charities will be outraged. Donations will subside to a trickle and... LAF and LS.org will quietly fold.

LA will spend the rest of his years living in obscurity, talking to himself and chattering repeatedly, "most tested athlete, never tested positive..." while polishing his seven bowls and one ball, surrounded by mirrors.

Clinic posts will drop to an all time low, due to lack of interest.

WOW, TB . . . and idle mind is the devil's workshop! Obviously you are kidding? If not, I have a bridge in Brooklyn with your name on it.

 

[TubularBills]

WOW, TB . . . and idle mind is the devil's workshop! Obviously you are kidding? If not, I have a bridge in Brooklyn with your name on it.

There's a bridge in Brooklyn?

TBridge has a nice ring...

 

[Darryl Webster]

An asterisk will appear next to all 7 of his tainted TDF Titles.

ASO will sue and win for the return of all prize monies.

USPS will win a suit for breach of contract and the return of all sponsorship dollars.

SCA will tender a civil suit, win and recoup their original settlement + damages.

LA will declare bankruptcy.

An Investigative Journalist will publish, "ScamStrong," a meticulously researched expose outlining the LiveStrong, DemandMedia, LAF "Awareness" Scam, insider dealings, corruptions, conflicts of interest, mis-allocation of funds, etc. The legitimate cancer community and charities will be outraged. Donations will subside to a trickle and... LAF and LS.org will quietly fold.

LA will spend the rest of his years living in obscurity, talking to himself and chattering repeatedly, "most tested athlete, never tested positive..." while polishing his seven bowls and one ball, surrounded by mirrors.

Clinic posts will drop to an all time low, due to lack of interest.

You mean justice will be served?...stranger things have happened!..Lets live in hope eh.

 

[veganrob]

I think we are all going to be very disappointed in the outcome. One needs only to look at the recent Michael Vick case to see how this could all play out, and there is no way LA even goes to jail. Society is full of people that don't bother to read and think critically; that is how so many politicians get elected to office.

Yes, but Vick did go to jail. His redemption only came about because he is playing good football now. If he sucked, he would still be reviled by most people. Success creates very short memories. Lance won't go to jail but he will have a big problem getting any credibility back because he can no longer race.

 

[Mongol_Waaijer]

Vick has not only been punished but he has also more or less admitted to his crimes, and their reprehensible nature.

Of course there is a lot of PR in there, but Vick hasn't denied it all, attacked accusers, made threats, hidden behind sick and dying people, whilst publically abhorring the very wrongs he has perpetrated.

Plus Vick is actually excelling at his sport right now.

Lance is a sociopath, who will never ever admit to having been wrong. What advances his interests is right, and what doesn't is wrong. Its that simple.

Whilst wishing nothiong but misery on Lance i actually respect his sociopathic nature than I understand the slavish alpha male worshippings of dipsh*ts on the forums who seem to need to project Lance's mythical strengths onto their own inadequacies.

 

[JPM London]

part 4 - "we mustnt let this take away all the wonderful work he has done for cancer"

Maybe it's just me, but I thought he hated cancer...

 

[jimbob_in_co]

Let's jump ahead for a minute to speculate on a few things.

Let's say for the sake of argument that Armstrong will be exposed. As far as I'm concerned, this is inevitable. The actual legal wrangling may take years, as we've seen with BALCO, but we will know the testimony provided by the main players much earlier than that.

He may or may not do jail time or just cop a plea, though I cannot for the life of me see him doing this.

But there have been people, major people in the sport, who have supported him throughout the years. People like Eddy Merckx for example.

They will be asked for opinions on the matter. What do you think they will say? I don't think it will be possible to take an apologist view or avoid the matter altogether. They will be confronted with their own hypocrisy eventually.

What would someone like Chris Carmichael say? Let's be real, this guy has built a career on Armstrong's back and himself has been involved in an out-of-court settlement involving doping. Will people begin to doubt him and his so-called "expertise"? How would he be able to weasel his way out of this?

Will someone like him be able to continue with his career with a straight face, or will people judge him accordingly for all the lies he's propagated over the years? Will it affect his bottom line?

What about Liggett, Sherwen, Roll and Watson? These are men who, after all, have blindly gone on record saying the support him unequivocally and believe he never doped, but they are still involved in cycling and still make their living from it.

How will they be able to brush this aside and continue working? Will people hold their feet to the fire and demand answers?

Does anyone think they'll go on stating he's the greatest tour rider ever and he was only doing what everyone else was doing, so everything evened itself out?

What about his cancer foundation? Will it fold from people being upset they've been lied to all these years or will they keep believing and donating money to the cause?

As much as it pains me to admit it, I have a feeling Armstrong and all of his business and non-profit associates and beneficiaries/partners will walk away clean. They might be slightly tarnished in the short run, but will play the 'unfairly persecuted martyr' card and come out benefiting from it all.

Look at FBS football programs for your proof: Cam Newton at Auburn (he and daddy were scripting his career since he was in diapers, Daddy kept a potential $180,000 payday from Miss. St. to himself? please...) the five 'tattoo parlor patron football players' at Ohio State Univ. ("They didn't know what they were doing was wrong?" and I thought schools in Texas had low academic standards).

Vick, yes, everyone loves an apologetic winner on the field who is helping their football teams (real or fantasy). He is an unique 'redemption' situation. (I still think the videos of the dog fights and 'disposal of under-performers' should be played pre-game at every stadium where he steps on the field.)

I think Armstrong, his 'heroic' (if highly fictionalized, and 'inspired' by a true story) published history of beating poverty, disease, death, and doubters to become a 'champion', his 'Foundation' that raises "awareness" to 9 billion, or so, people on Earth (even those not yet born for another 40 years), and all of his whining about 'all the good work he has done' will get him a 'get out of trouble free card'. His self-absorption and ego will help immensely too.

His dedicated 'yellow bracelet/t-shirt/merchandise' wearing followers are an odd and highly delusional demographic. They actually think all of that merchandise and continuously (and shamelessly) begging for donations are actually having a positive effect for people who are dealing with treatment for cancer. They will support him, unquestioningly, to the very end.

(Heck, even Pete Rose still has legions of fans. Truly a sick situation)

Carmichael, Liggett, Sherwen, Roll and Watson. None of them are going to fall on their swords in my opinion, or scream, 'Mea Culpa'. They'll all find a way to 'hate the sin, but love the sinner' and ride Armstrong's 'redemption caravan' to more profits.

I think those who would turn their backs on Armstrong (A certain famous young American cyclist and his retired pro cyclist parents come to mind) have already bailed out. The rest seem to be 'all in', and as disgusting as it seems to me, their bets may pay off very well.

One last item about "LieStrong": Look at all the PR garbage and ''utter cr@p" that goes on in breast cancer with: 'pink-washing', the 'Susan G. Komen Foundation' and the overt monetization and profit taking from this 'awareness advertising business'. The public seems to have little problem with that.

Personally, I wish and think Armstrong would freeze in the innermost circle of "H-E-double hockey sticks" for all he has done. Maybe he will, if such an afterlife exists. As for this life, I saw the movie and musical "Chicago" and other real life news stories too many times to think he or his henchmen will have to pay any price.

I sure hope I am wrong, but if I'm correct, c'est la vie'. I can't do anything about it either way.

 

[theswordsman]

So many things are already out over the years, and the Versus guys haven't changed their story because of any of them. They've made enough money off him. Once the TDU is over, they have an excuse to not say much of anything. Unless someone decided to write a tell all, there's no money to be made by talking about him. Close the account and move on. Who would be the journalist that would call them on the carpet and hold them accountable? The common rider mantra is "everyone was doing it" and the same could apply to a lot of cycling journalists who depended on advertising dollars, additional sales or website hits, press credentials, etc. As for Carmichael, he's kind of transitioned towards triathlon training and running the business. I think his continued success, if he's not personally incriminated, will depend on the success of the athletes he trains now. Hopefully his books about Armstrong's training will end up in the clearance bin under Fiction.

Someone mentioned that Lance's people will go to Europe to talk to the same people Novitsky did. So that would be the AFLD, Spanish Civil Guard, OCLAESP, Italian police, someone from Belgium - I bet the lawyers can't wait.

As for the story not getting out - I think people are underestimating the quality of the tale. With Michael Vick, you had dog fights and pretty much didn't need to know anything else. I'm not sure many people needed to see the actual dogs, or whatever. With Tiger, you had the crashed vehicle, the wife with the golf club, and a guy cheating on his wife. Hollywood had way better versions of that for decades.

How many people have read It's Not About the Bike, and the other one? Now add in speeding through red lights, strippers, cocaine, bullying, illegally importing, transporting and distributing drugs, hotel rooms secured so doping couldn't be viewed or taped, bribes, bullying, corrupt officials, a network of enablers, people perjuring themselves, lawsuits, guys riding old bikes so new ones can be sold for doping, carriers smuggling in blood bags, helicopter flights to Switzerland, details about which races he cheated in, LeMond - oh so many details that would keep people buying magazines for months on end.

Once there are actual charges, the media can go on a feeding frenzy, and all the quiet people can come out of the woodwork. Want to meet the women of the Yellow Rose? Want to see who was involved? Does his life really resemble that of a godfather, as someone described it? People think they knew the whole story. Now they'll be even more interested in the real one, however much of the above is true.

The thing about this is, all any of us have is a guess based on our opinion. There's so little information about who was questioned, and even less on what was said. The guy has been teflon in the past, but he's never had this type of investigation so far, and I imagine that everyone who tried to take LA on in the past would be willing to help on this one. But please remember that this story is about way more than if a guy outcheated some other guys to win races. Plus, there's the Whistleblower lawsuit. People compare this to Marion Jones. Cheated, lied about it, won. Yawn.

 

[Race Radio]

The groupies will searching franticly for a new mantra....never tested positive doesn't work anymore. Most tested is a sham.

When you have to resort to "Never went to jail" you know things are bad.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

I agree the Vick comparison is a terrible one. He's admitted what he did, and done all he can since to make amends. What he did was terrible, and he deserved to go to prison, but I don't know what else the guy could be doing right now other than what he is.

To compare Lance to Vick would be if Vick to have been an owner of a large animal rescue and appearing in publications as such, while he was dog fighting. Then denied everything, and even sued other people, up through his trial.

Unless of course someone thinks Lance is going to come clean the way Vick did. Even then, he's going to look like a huge hypocrite as Vick wasn't accused of dog fighting until close to when he was arrested, then it didn't take him long to plea out and confess. Armstrong's been denying for a decade.

Lance's best hope is that like politicians, somehow enough people don't pay attention, or don't care. But this is going to be a tremendously long fall.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

They will all fiegn ignorance and everything will carry on as before.

Agree.

While people have brought up LA, Berzins original point was what happens to the hangers on.

Phil & Paul have lost their credibility long ago - they are not journalists but commentators who will continue the official UCI line - "the sport is getting cleaner", "Biological Passport", "new generation".

Carmichael may lose his connection to USAC but there will always be wealthy Masters who will hang off his every word.

Merckx - it won't effect him in the slightest.

 

[isayic]

I think that sherwen and ligget will roll out the excuses in four parts

part 1 - "this is all a little bit suspicious, he was the worlds most tested athlete and never once tested positive "

part 2 - "landis out of spite has destroyed cycling"

part 3 - "ullrich, riis etc were all doping so lance is still the best"

and when all else fails

part 4 - "we mustnt let this take away all the wonderful work he has done for cancer"

part 1 - that means nothing because there are methods to hide doping

part 2 - Landis isn't the only rider who did damage to cycling

part 3 - Lance may have the most natural talent of his generation but he remains a cheater.

part 4 - Others also did a lot for cancer and Lance did it to have a place in the spotlight. He needs it.

 

[Neworld]

An asterisk will appear next to all 7 of his tainted TDF Titles....

An Investigative Journalist will publish, "ScamStrong," a meticulously researched expose outlining the LiveStrong, DemandMedia, LAF "Awareness" Scam, insider dealings, corruptions, conflicts of interest, mis-allocation of funds, etc. The legitimate cancer community and charities will be outraged. Donations will subside to a trickle and... LAF and LS.org will quietly fold.

LA will spend the rest of his years living in obscurity, talking to himself and chattering repeatedly, "most tested athlete, never tested positive..." while polishing his seven bowls and one ball, surrounded by mirrors.

LOve the way you think...and most times, when the stakes are this severe and sweeping, the correct decision is made and fair attempts are implemented to justify the bad deed(s).

About the investigative research book...I think that would be interesting too, and I'd probably buy it if the funds raised went to help fight doping. It would only to educate the dim followers out there. That research can already be easily found...just read the Cycling news forums


NW

 

[Dallas_]

First point. Top thread Berzin - good thread title and good initial post to create interest.

All the following is my opinion only

Predict will be exposed for boosting 1999 on
His public response is 100% predictable. Being so rehearsed, he wont need Fabiani's advice: "They were all on it, trust me a level playing field", of which the fan-boys will grab with a vice like grip. The fan-boys don't want to know of the exclusive Ferrari deal.

alleged immaculate palmares morph into a total joke. Would like to hear Phil Anderson's opinion on this!
His public image will suffer a huge drop. Hog pointed out public image is important to him - agree. Madone pro's meltdown in clinic reinforced that with me.

USADA will be obligated to sanction him for two years and meaning cannot compete in WADA umbrella events eg mountain bike & triathlons(wada ?)
USADA possibly move to correct the TDF records back to 2002, which leads to as DR M pointed out:

possibly SCA re litigating. 7.5 mill plus 4 years interest, maybe damages! could be a tidy sum. To save face, he may settle with a non disclosure clause.
The FEDS will prove perjury, but will not pursue themselves. The FEDS will ask relevant local law entities to file the charge.

Cannot predict what charges the FEDS file. Not enough information, although lots of speculation. To me, Novitzky traveling to Europe was significant.

Carmichael is interesting, as maybe Novi cannot find a dirty link. His public image may drop, but not as much as LA. Business as usual, although down slightly.
Before I was educated, 1 year ago I was on the net trying to locate Carmichael's training info. That was a close call.

Phil and Paul may use LA's well rehearsed line in reply too - hard to predict. The general public, who only view the TDF each year, will not be swayed against Phil & Paul. May be business as usual on air!

If I may add Greg LeMond. Greg is not after blood. He is an anti doping crusader and combined with Betsy will be happy with the truth emerging.
Is there a case for interference in Greg's business? Correct me if wrong, but I believe there is such a law in th USA?

Livestrong could become even more interesting. Cant wait for SI article Maybe Livestrong takes a dive.

cheers

 

[Race Radio]

If I may add Greg LeMond. Greg is not after blood. He is an anti doping crusader and combined with Betsy will be happy with the truth emerging.
Is there a case for interference in Greg's business? Correct me if wrong, but I believe there is such a law in th USA?

Livestrong could become even more interesting. Cant wait for SI article Maybe Livestrong takes a dive.

cheers

Yes, it is called tortious interference. Greg has a slam dunk case and Trek is not the only instance. Greg can finally speak his mind and if Wonderboy raises a stink the lawsuit is filed the next day.