Power Data Estimates for the climbing stages

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is this like the start of the climb - first descent section?

I mean seems like a bit of strange way to leave out the last 4km or so of the climb where the main riders are more likely to be on their own

Edit: just as an example, in 2005 Sastre went like a rocket from pretty far out, but wasn't even the best of the favorites in the end
 
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is this like the start of the climb - first descent section?

I mean seems like a bit of strange way to leave out the last 4km or so of the climb where the main riders are more likely to be on their own
Yeah, it doesn't make sense cut the last 4 kms.
Roglic did 6.4 w/kg with bernal in the climb before lagos covadonga, and in the last climb Roglic did 6.1 w/kg. Very good numbers in a stage where they attacked at 60 km from the finish and the speed in the stage was always high.
 
is this like the start of the climb - first descent section?

I mean seems like a bit of strange way to leave out the last 4km or so of the climb where the main riders are more likely to be on their own

Edit: just as an example, in 2005 Sastre went like a rocket from pretty far out, but wasn't even the best of the favorites in the end
Yeah, it doesn't make sense cut the last 4 kms.
Roglic did 6.4 w/kg with bernal in the climb before lagos covadonga, and in the last climb Roglic did 6.1 w/kg. Very good numbers in a stage where they attacked at 60 km from the finish and the speed in the stage was always high.
Yeah I don't really like cutting it off either.
 
So Jose Neves recently won the MTT NC in Portugal and posted his ride on Strava.
He climbed the Senora da Garca climb, 7.7km at 7.6%, in 19:38. He did 408W for almost 20min at 61kg, that's around 6.7 W/kg for almost 20min.
The guy was able to get decent results in small Chinese races when he raced for Burgos-BH and now he's climbing like Pogacar in Portugal, why am I not surprised?
 
So Jose Neves recently won the MTT NC in Portugal and posted his ride on Strava.
He climbed the Senora da Garca climb, 7.7km at 7.6%, in 19:38. He did 408W for almost 20min at 61kg, that's around 6.7 W/kg for almost 20min.
The guy was able to get decent results in small Chinese races when he raced for Burgos-BH and now he's climbing like Pogacar in Portugal, why am I not surprised?
I have no idea how much higher we should expect one day-MTTs to be in performance compared to a road stage in a GT.
 
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I have no idea how much higher we should expect one day-MTTs to be in performance compared to a road stage in a GT.
Probably a bit lower than in an easy, short road stage on the same climb, at an average speed of 23.5 km/h you'd get a benefit from drafting early on that climb.
For what it's worth Jose Neves also did over 6.7 w/kg in a MTT on a 5.5% climb in a stage race 10 days earlier, when he was beaten by 76kg Mauricio Moreira.
 
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I have no idea how much higher we should expect one day-MTTs to be in performance compared to a road stage in a GT.
Armstrong was only 27'' faster in the 2004 MTT compared to his 2001 ascent of Alpe d'Huez, but there's obviously a bunch of factors in play.

On a climb like Col d'Eze, Contador was only 3'' slower in 2007 than Wiggins in the MTT in 2012. The more drafting matters, where it will be ridden full gas, the less difference there is between a road stage and an ITT, I think.
 
Armstrong was only 27'' faster in the 2004 MTT compared to his 2001 ascent of Alpe d'Huez, but there's obviously a bunch of factors in play.

On a climb like Col d'Eze, Contador was only 3'' slower in 2007 than Wiggins in the MTT in 2012. The more drafting matters, where it will be ridden full gas, the less difference there is between a road stage and an ITT, I think.
Yes, if they race it full gas than I'd expect drafting to make up for a lot on not so steep climbs. On really steep stuff where drafting no longer matters the advantage becomes bigger in a MTT.
Of course that's always if they go full gas on the climb and the favourites don't start looking at eachother.
 
Anyone had any first-hand experience seeing what 6.5 to 6.7 w/kg looks/feels like? I would say like being passed on someone on a mountain who's going at that speed, or even holding it yourself, albeit momentarily.
 
I imagine it's just a full sprint for me.
Well the thing is, it is just an insane amount of wattage. I am not a pro, so my capacities are not very useful, but if I maintained 6.5-6.7 w/kg, it would be a lot of watts right now! It is just beyond crazy how hard that is, even for a lightweight VO2/FTP monster, then tag it on to the end of a full gas race, and it is just unbelievable.

Curious what any other elite racers on the forum have found? More interested in relatively first hand experience. No offence to the coaches on the forum but, as we all know, sometimes riders don't tell the coaches everything they are doing!
 
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Well the thing is, it is just an insane amount of wattage. I am not a pro, so my capacities are not very useful, but if I maintained 6.5-6.7 w/kg, it would be a lot of watts right now! It is just beyond crazy how hard that is, even for a lightweight VO2/FTP monster, then tag it on to the end of a full gas race, and it is just unbelievable.

Curious what any other elite racers on the forum have found? More interested in relatively first hand experience. No offence to the coaches on the forum but, as we all know, sometimes riders don't tell the coaches everything they are doing!
In the days of Armstrong, 6.7W/Kg @ threshold was the factor to win the tour. Those were the days where they needed to break to take a corner uphill. So imagine needing to think about using the break while climbing an HC mountain :)

I think if you want to feel that, you will need to do a climb using a speedelec :)
 
Anyone had any first-hand experience seeing what 6.5 to 6.7 w/kg looks/feels like? I would say like being passed on someone on a mountain who's going at that speed, or even holding it yourself, albeit momentarily.
Recently for the first time in my life I did a serious cycling climb: nearly 12 km at 7 % (including last 5 km at almost 10%). It took me over an hour and (except false flat at the start) my VAM was close to 800 m/h for most of this time. When I was pedalling 7-8 kph on brutal double-digit final part I imagined that top climbers would be over twice as fast. Shocking really. TBH I don't think I would be able to accelerate to 1700 m/h even for a moment during that steep part of the climb (except at very beginning when I still had more muscle power and oxygen reserves).

And it's not like I'm some chubby guy (186 cm and weight about 78 kg). I trek frequently in the mountains and (thanks to the experience of overcoming gravity and a few 3-5 km cycling climbs I've done in my life before) I actually knew how to conserve my energy on the climb without exploding. With lighter equipment (bike, no knapsack) I could probably gain up to 10%, with some specific uphill training maybe another 10-20% (I cycle rather regularly but on flat and tiny hills). But 100%? These 6+ w/kg speeds are incredible.
 
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Recently for the first time in my life I did a serious cycling climb: nearly 12 km at 7 % (including last 5 km at almost 10%). It took me over an hour and (except false flat at the start) my VAM was close to 800 m/h for most of this time. When I was pedalling 7-8 kph on brutal double-digit final part I imagined that top climbers would be over twice as fast. Shocking really. TBH I don't think I would be able to accelerate to 1700 m/h even for a moment during that steep part of the climb (except at very beginning when I still had more muscle power and oxygen reserves).

And it's not like I'm some chubby guy (186 cm and weight about 78 kg). I trek frequently in the mountains and (thanks to the experience of overcoming gravity and a few 3-5 km cycling climbs I've done in my life before) I actually knew how to conserve my energy on the climb without exploding. With lighter equipment (bike, no knapsack) I could probably gain up to 10%, with some specific uphill training maybe another 10-20% (I cycle rather regularly but on flat and tiny hills). But 100%? These 6+ w/kg speeds are incredible.
Well you ain't built like a natural climber either tbh. Even elite pros your size don't break 6W/kg for a long time either.
 
Well you ain't built like a natural climber either tbh. Even elite pros your size don't break 6W/kg for a long time either.
Obviously I'm not, judging by my quads I'm maybe closer to a sprinter :p Yet, a guy like WVA (who weights maybe 3 kilos less than me) can produce 6 w/kg for a few dozens of minutes. I'm wondering where is the biggest physical difference between a normal, active person (with a rather low fat percentage) like me and a top pro. I guess biggest factors are (in this order):
  1. cardiac output
  2. highly-trained muscles
  3. lactate acid tolerance
 
Power analysis of Masnada and also estimation of Pogacar here:


Masnada averaged 6.1 w/kg on Ganda climb (almost 24 minutes of effort) which is also estimation for the remaining favourites.

Velonews estimates Pogacar's power to be 425 watts (6.4 w/kg) for over 23 minutes, which is impressive. I calculated his VAM as almost 1750 m/h on this moderately steep climb. However, based only on his speed advantage over the field (about 2.5 percent) he actually averaged about 6.25 w/kg but maybe they incorporated aerodynamic drag as well (solo vs group) or used another formula.
 
Power analysis of Masnada and also estimation of Pogacar here:


Masnada averaged 6.1 w/kg on Ganda climb (almost 24 minutes of effort) which is also estimation for the remaining favourites.

Velonews estimates Pogacar's power to be 425 watts (6.4 w/kg) for over 23 minutes, which is impressive. I calculated his VAM as almost 1750 m/h on this moderately steep climb. However, based only on his speed advantage over the field (about 2.5 percent) he actually averaged about 6.25 w/kg but maybe they incorporated aerodynamic drag as well (solo vs group) or used another formula.
Didn't Masnada get dropped towards the top?
 

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