Power meters: is Quintana right that they should be banned?

[Brullnux]

Both Quintana and Valverde have expressed their beliefs that power meters should be banned in racing (I saw someone write that Contador also said something similar).

So, my question is: is the effect on racing enough that they should be banned? I'd say yes. Is it possible to get them banned, or would there be too many opponents? I don't know, and I want to get the general consensus here as well on the issue.

 

[DFA123]

Yes, they definitely should be banned. I don't think there would be massive obstacles in the way to doing so if the UCI wanted; they are not manufactured by big powerhouses like Shimano or Specialized who would lobby hard to retain them.

Them being banned would undoubtedly make racing more exciting.

 

[PremierAndrew]

Re:

Them being banned would undoubtedly make racing more exciting.

No, because at the moment, Froome is the only one out of the big guys who seems to be using it a lot while racing. If everyone did it, sure, banning them would make it more exciting, but if Froome hadn't dropped back because his power meter told him to do so on Cavadonga, we would have had about 4km of GC action instead of 10

But yes, they should be banned, no place in races. Ideally it would be okay to have power meters but no way for the riders or the DS to see that info until after the race for analysis

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

Them being banned would undoubtedly make racing more exciting.

No, because at the moment, Froome is the only one out of the big guys who seems to be using it a lot while racing. If everyone did it, sure, banning them would make it more exciting, but if Froome hadn't dropped back because his power meter told him to do so on Cavadonga, we would have had about 4km of GC action instead of 10

But yes, they should be banned, no place in races. Ideally it would be okay to have power meters but no way for the riders or the DS to see that info until after the race for analysis

Of course it would be more exciting. You wouldn't get Wout Poels on the front of the biggest race of the year,4 riding at a steady 6w/kg ignoring any attacks and gradually reeling everyone back in. You wouldn't get the breakaway always being caught in hilly one day races, because the pack can make a simple maths calculation to bring them back in.

And in general, there would be a lot more doubt. Some riders use their power meter less than others, but all use them. If a rider goes on an ambitious attack, everyone will look down and realise it's not sustainable. Without power meters the doubt is there; is he going too fast or do I just have bad legs today? More doubt and uncertainty leads to moe exciting racing. It's a lot braver to let a rider go on a climb if you don't know for sure that he's going at an unsustainable pace.

 

[myrideissteelerthanyours]

No its just sour grapes. Power meters don't have that kind of impact.

Since the end goal seems to be to dramatically change the outcome of most races it would make more sense to focus on more important rules. What if hanging off the caravan was legal that would make for some interesting finishes when the sprinters move out of the cars in the last 10KM? Perhaps a ramp to jump riders through a flaming hoop should replace the traditional 5KM to go banner?

 

[PremierAndrew]

Getting rid of power meters alone won't solve that, because you can just work out how quickly you need to climb to be at a certain power, so if for example they do the first 5km of a climb in 15 mins, you may know from training that that's 500W and unsustainable, while you should be doing it in 16 minutes instead

 

[Jspear]

Re:

No its just sour grapes. Power meters don't have that kind of impact.

Since the end goal seems to be to dramatically change the outcome of most races it would make more sense to focus on more important rules. What if hanging off the caravan was legal that would make for some interesting finishes when the sprinters move out of the cars in the last 10KM? Perhaps a ramp to jump riders through a flaming hoop should replace the traditional 5KM to go banner?

Lol. You do understand how silly this is right? Your proposing something that isn't BIKE racing. Your adding things to to the sport that would dramatically change the outcome of most races.

Taking away powermeters isn't adding a non cycling element to cycling. It would be a truer form of racing. Man against man. Each rider would have to know and understand his own body without the aid of a computer. This would still be good ole bike racing which is what we all want.

Power meters DO have a big impact on cycling. That's one of sky's big claim to fame. Methodical, measured cycling. Everything they do is well thought out. I'm not saying this is wrong...just that power meters do impact racing. It's not just sour grapes.

 

[DFA123]

Re:

Getting rid of power meters alone won't solve that, because you can just work out how quickly you need to climb to be at a certain power, so if for example they do the first 5km of a climb in 15 mins, you may know from training that that's 500W and unsustainable, while you should be doing it in 16 minutes instead

But it's a lot more difficult to calculate that; taking into consideration drafting, wind and other variables it can be almost impossible in some circumstances. Plus you will have had to have done the climb in training; most riders don't have the time to recon every single climb they will be racing on. Also, how was the climb done in training; was it a steady paced effort or done with accelerations and decelerations? Will that be the same as how it is done in the race?

Time is a very poor replacement for a power meter. Heart rate is better, but still has real limitations and won't tell you if you are just having a bad day or if the other guy is going too hard.

 

[portugal11]

Quintana doesn't care about spectacle, he defends powermeter's ban only to have a chance of winning le tour.

 

[DFA123]

Re:

Quintana doesn't care about spectacle, he defends powermeter's ban only to have a chance of winning le tour.

Clearly, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't be banned.

They should ban electronic gearing while they're at it. A battery doesn't belong anywhere on a bike; and a system that allows you to seemlessly shift the front chainring under heavy load is taking away some of the technical and decision making skills that should be a part of cycling.

 

[veji11]

Getting rid of power meters alone wouldn't do much, but it's part of a wider need to go back to basics in road cycling :

Put the rider in the middle of the event.

Simply this means that fans want to watch a sport where the individual champion is the key, where there is uncertainty, where the human component makes all the difference, where he can make mistakes, be bluffed, bluff, where he has to take his responsabilities. Right now the race is way too controled on big races and it reduces the moment where the champion has to act as an individual to those 2 or 3 final kilometers of Liege Bastogne Liege or of the MTF.

To put the rider, the individual back in the center of the game, to make cycling promothean again (yes just like boxing the reason why cycling was so popular was because of its promethean imagery of heroism, of enduring pain, of being the last one standing) the race has to be less controlled, the rider has to be in charge and doing all based on the only information he has : how he feels and what he sees of his ennemies.

so :
- No more Power meters, these are training devices, probably keep them on the bikes but as blind measuring instruments that cannot be read in race.
- No more earpieces, or rather a single Radio Tour type earpiece that just gives you general info (security, feed zone coming up, there was a fall, bibs n°24, 72 and 45 are 2 minutes ahead, etc). No more communication with the DS unless you are willing to go down to the car yourself to talk to them.
- Smaller teams because big teams castrate the race : 5 riders per for one day races, 6 for stage races, 7 for GT
- The first 3 could be put in place fairly quicly, the 4th suggestion is harder to do : put in place a form of salary cap to avoid having super teams. Superteams would be weaker with less riders, but would remain a problem nevertheless. This is only enforceable if you have wholesale governance changes in terms of revenue sharing so unlikely to happen.
- Remember that road cycling is endurance sport : you need long stages, you need to have a hard middle section in a classic, not a backloaded fest, and progress in gear might have to be controled to avoid it being so efficient it smoothes out the differences.

But after hearing Bardet advocate for smaller teams in the Tour, hearing Quintan advocate for no Power meters is another positive development to at least have a debate.

 

[silvergrenade]

Powermeters or no powermeters. Hardly matters. Froome will still be the best rider in the world; he'll figure something out.
Also, I'm sure he can push 380 or 390 or 400 or...... just by feel. Most professional cyclists have that ability. Banning them would make no difference at all.

Also, saying it in the middle of the Vuelta is like sour grapes. They should stay away from such controversial questions. Had he said it after it would be okay. Saying it right now is like a direct attack on Froome and also shows a certain amount of weakness.

 

[veji11]

Re: Re:

Quintana doesn't care about spectacle, he defends powermeter's ban only to have a chance of winning le tour.

Clearly, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't be banned.

They should ban electronic gearing while they're at it. A battery doesn't belong anywhere on a bike; and a system that allows you to seemlessly shift the front chainring under heavy load is taking away some of the technical and decision making skills that should be a part of cycling.

yep. It reminds me of formula one (although i hate people thinking cycling should become more like formula one, it's the other way round !!) : Alain Prost used to say that a big reason there was so much action until the 80s and early 90s was that they had manual gear changes and that when under pressure from another pilot, it often happened that you fluffed the perfect timing of the gear change and it resulted in not enough power going out of a turn or too brutal a deceleration, and that's where you had all the overtaking. Now that it is all electronic, there is hardly any overtaking between leaders...

 

[LaFlorecita]

Although he didn't say they should be banned, Alberto said they take away the spectacle of cycling and also that he has no intention of changing his way of riding (to a more calculated approach).

 

[doperhopper]

Re: Power meters: is Quintana right that they should be bann

ban powermeters? finally!

together with radios an other marginal gains (motorhomes, pillows, trains, etc.)

 

[Escarabajo]

Re:

Quintana doesn't care about spectacle, he defends powermeter's ban only to have a chance of winning le tour.

Probably.

But all I heard in July from this forum are complains about how Sky is screwing everything up by riding tempo at a fixed power at the front.

 

[veji11]

Re:

Getting rid of power meters alone won't solve that, because you can just work out how quickly you need to climb to be at a certain power, so if for example they do the first 5km of a climb in 15 mins, you may know from training that that's 500W and unsustainable, while you should be doing it in 16 minutes instead

In theory yes, and when one is still fully lucid. But the whole point is that when the rider is digging deep and/or under stress, he loses this clearsightedness, and mistakes can then happen...

Powermeters, cardios, earpieces are all crutches that protect the rider from the race, from the human component of it, it reduces the rider to a glorified wattbike.

 

[TourOfSardinia]

I agree with Nairo - nice to see him breaking silence of any kind.
It's what Nibali said years ago.
Go on feeling
We are human
not robots.

"Are we not men?" is from The Island of Doctor Moreau (1896), by H. G. Wells.
It is part of the litany of the Law,
spoken by the Speaker of the Law to the Beast Folk,
creatures surgically force-evolved by the mad doctor.

 

[Andy262]

Technology is turning racing into robotics. I'd love to see it kicked out of racing. Fine for prep.

 

[Mr.White]

No doubt! Along with the radios. Every fan of true racing, old school racing, should be against those stuffs

 

[HelloDolly]

Yes definitely they should be banned in racing (only)

They take away from the unexpected , the spontenaity , the spectacle of racing ...

They should go ...no brainer really for me

Start at a big race next year and lets see....Maybe the Dauphine and Paris Nice

If cycling does not improve its entertainment value it will lose out big time in new fans...Fans want to see the unpreditable .....not a line of guys riding up a mountin in tempo

And to those who said this ban won't solve everything I say its a start .....so lets be having it

 

[MatParker117]

Re:

Technology is turning racing into robotics. I'd love to see it kicked out of racing. Fine for prep.

If that's the case back to steel bikes, wool jerseys and no helmets. Sport needs to be seen to move with the times, next big leap for cycling is AR.

 

[Amnes2015]

he sounds like a hypocrite , he doesn't care about spectacle
he is ashamed to say but probably he would like also flat ITT's , cobbles , crosswinds and descents to be banned.

 

[Jagartrott]

Re: Re:

Technology is turning racing into robotics. I'd love to see it kicked out of racing. Fine for prep.

If that's the case back to steel bikes, wool jerseys and no helmets. Sport needs to be seen to move with the times, next big leap for cycling is AR.

Introduce e-bikes - stay with the times!

 

[veji11]

Re:

he sounds like a hypocrite , he doesn't care about spectacle
he is ashamed to say but probably he would like also flat ITT's , cobbles , crosswinds and descents to be banned.

Of course he defends his interests. Do you think if Bardet had the Sky team at his disposal he would have called for smaller teams ? no.. but sometimes an athlete's interest fit with those of their sport. This is the case now.