Primož Roglič

[Nick2413]

or look at it this way. could the UCI stand the risk of actually catching someone (publicly) with motors at a big race? that would look just as bad for them and make the whole sport look farcical. if anyone has ever actually been caught in the pro peloton then it would've been quickly swept under the rug with possibly some kind of silent ban.

I think it takes a special kind of philosophy to be OK with motor doping. I don’t deny it exists, but I just can’t imagine who would use it especially among top riders to begin with. These are riders that made it to the top without a motor, clean or not, and then decided to use one. They would have to have some sort of axe to grind in order to justify it if they’ve already been winning at the highest level without that type of assistance.

 

[Oldermanish]

I think it takes a special kind of philosophy to be OK with motor doping. I don’t deny it exists, but I just can’t imagine who would use it especially among top riders to begin with. These are riders that made it to the top without a motor, clean or not, and then decided to use one. They would have to have some sort of axe to grind in order to justify it if they’ve already been winning at the highest level without that type of assistance.

I agree. The legacy of a top rider that, for some reason decided to extend a career at that risk to a longer-time reputation is unlikely. Up and comers are cheap and the means to execute a plan when team mechanics are involved make it even less likely.
Time to move on.

 

[zlev11]

I think it takes a special kind of philosophy to be OK with motor doping. I don’t deny it exists, but I just can’t imagine who would use it especially among top riders to begin with. These are riders that made it to the top without a motor, clean or not, and then decided to use one. They would have to have some sort of axe to grind in order to justify it if they’ve already been winning at the highest level without that type of assistance.

money.

 

[Cookster15]

money.

IMO, money doesn't mean it happens with top tier riders. In fact, if motor doping was ever employed by a rider in the UCI World Tour I'd be stunned. I think where it was discovered was in lower grades or women's racing?

Motor doping seems like a conspiracy theory to put down riders we don't like. And while it may seem easy to conceal a motor, its even easier to detect them - despite all the expensive x-ray machines etc. Look and you will find. You can't say this of traditional doping, particularly blood doping with passport cases sometimes taking years to resolve e.g. Cobo.

The consequences of being caught for motor doping for the rider, team and sport are far greater than being caught for all other forms of doping. Certainly such risk would not be taken by big money teams and their even bigger name big sponsors with billion dollar brands to protect.

No way do I believe Roglic could ever have resorted to motor doping.

 

[zlev11]

IMO, money doesn't mean it happens with top tier riders. In fact, if motor doping was ever employed by a rider in the UCI World Tour I'd be stunned. I think where it was discovered was in lower grades or women's racing?

Motor doping seems like a conspiracy theory to put down riders we don't like. And while it may seem easy to conceal a motor, its even easier to detect them - despite all the expensive x-ray machines etc. Look and you will find. You can't say this of traditional doping, particularly blood doping with passport cases sometimes taking years to resolve e.g. Cobo.

The consequences of being caught for motor doping for the rider, team and sport are far greater than being caught for all other forms of doping. Certainly such risk would not be taken by big money teams and their even bigger name big sponsors with billion dollar brands to protect.

No way do I believe Roglic could ever have resorted to motor doping.

this is exactly what they want you to think. armstrongs doping was once also considered "conspiracy theory" too.

(FTR, I also don't think Roglic is/was motordoping, IMO the era in which that happened pre-dated his rise to prominence)

 

[Oldermanish]

this is exactly what they want you to think. armstrongs doping was once also considered "conspiracy theory" too.

(FTR, I also don't think Roglic is/was motordoping, IMO the era in which that happened pre-dated his rise to prominence)

Who are "they"? Armstrong's team and deluded fans were the ones that accepted that "conspiracy theory". I'm surprised he didn't trademark the phrase "Witchhunt". So many other guilty as*holes use it he might have made a buck. The Armstrong saga is a great example of the negative financial and personal consequences for all involved.
Lower level riders, amateurs and douchebag Masters racers may well try it because the technology is available. Cheaper to dope and avoid detection and the consequences stay with the primary guilty party.

 

[zlev11]

Who are "they"?

the UCI

 

[Nick2413]

Feels like he downgraded to a weaker recipe with Bora. He’s lost a level.

 

[AmRacer]

Feels like he downgraded to a weaker recipe with Bora. He’s lost a level.

Age, perhaps.

 

[Forever The Best]

Rider leaving Visma has a decrease in performance. Shocking.

 

[Mayomaniac]

The bigger surprise is that the rest of Bora also looks like the downgraded a bit.
Even before the Tour he already gave me post-2015 Contador flashbacks. IMO he is just declining atm.

 

[Ruklaw]

It's early days. His performance so far isn't a million miles from where he was in the first half of the giro last year.

I suspect he'll do reasonably well in the TT on Friday, then come that final day TT we're going to see some absolutely bonkers times (whether from Rog or whoever else).

 

[Red Rick]

The bigger surprise is that the rest of Bora also looks like the downgraded a bit.
Even before the Tour he already gave me post-2015 Contador flashbacks. IMO he is just declining atm.

Vlasov looked great early in Dauphine now he's doing *** all. Hindley meanwhile was *** in Dauphine and is still *** now.

 

[Nick2413]

Hindley has been overrated since his Giro win. Vlasov is the bigger concern if he doesn’t improve.

 

[Mayomaniac]

Vlasov looked great early in Dauphine now he's doing *** all. Hindley meanwhile was *** in Dauphine and is still *** now.

Vlasov is like Valverde, he sucks at altitude.
Also, wouldn't even surprise me if hre peaked for the Dauphine...

 

[Ilmaestro99]

Hindley has been overrated since his Giro win. Vlasov is the bigger concern if he doesn’t improve.

The fact that hindley did his massive giro week 3 super peak a second time increased his stock a lot.

Up until 2022 giro he was considered a bit of a joke who had an absurd one-off 2020 giro. But then he did it a second time and he won the giro , and it's like, ok wow he's actually a really talented GT rider built for week 3.

But then instead of doing it at the tour, he's going back to being mediocre again. Strange

Vlasov is literally just Russian valverde, flying all year from January to October in stage races and hilly classics but struggling with altitude and big mountains

 

[Ilmaestro99]

Anybody knows why he so much better in Spain.? Maybe it's obvious and I'm just stupid

The whole Bora team looked dialled in today, some good carbs on the rest day, but for a guy who snapped his spine in July and did 2-3 weeks training for the race, Roglic looked particularly invincible.

 

[zlev11]

Anybody knows why he so much better in Spain.? Maybe it's obvious and I'm just stupid

because he actually gets to the mountain stages without crashing in Spain.

no but for real, he was at this exact level during the TDF. look at who he put 1:20 into on stage 11, it's a lot of the same guys he's beating in the Vuelta: Yates, Rodriguez, Landa, Gall (before he fell apart). Mas, Carapaz and Gaudu couldn't even ride GC there.

 

[Ruklaw]

Yeah, major issue is that the guys/teams that might be beating him have knocked it back a bit, or aren't riding.

UAE have obviously decided to knock it back a bit (Soler excepted...). Kuss is still recovering from his celebrations last year (or decided he doesn't want to risk taking so much of the stuff, whatever it is...). WVA seemed back to his crazy best, beating climbers over cat 1 climbs etc, but he's still too big for GC.

Ineos are in total crisis this year, worst they've ever been. Ben O'Connor has never been that competitive. Mas definitely targets the Vuelta but ultimately has a history of losing to him 🤷‍♂️

 

[ppanther92]

Anybody knows why he so much better in Spain.? Maybe it's obvious and I'm just stupid

Because Pogacar and Vingegaard are not here? Last year Vingegaard was the strongest, deciding to race the Vuelta 2 weeks before, while Roglic targeted it. Thats it.

 

[Cookster15]

Ben O'Connor has never been that competitive

O'Conner is still only 28 and before this Vuelta had a 4th at 2021 TdF and 4th at this year's Giro. He has ridden well this Giro to defend red for nearly two weeks but nothing untoward with clinic suspicions.

As for Roglic, well he crashed out of the Tour and is obviously 100% motivated. His ride yesterday on Moncalvillo was one of the best this year by anyone.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

Because Pogacar and Vingegaard are not here? Last year Vingegaard was the strongest, deciding to race the Vuelta 2 weeks before, while Roglic targeted it. Thats it.

If they’d been on different teams, Roglic would have had 2+ minutes on Vingegaard before Tourmalet, would have followed Vingegaard on that stage rather than sit in the bunch in support of his attacking teammate, and then sealed the victory in the Angliru.

 

[E_F_]

If they’d been on different teams, Roglic would have had 2+ minutes on Vingegaard before Tourmalet, would have followed Vingegaard on that stage rather than sit in the bunch in support of his attacking teammate, and then sealed the victory in the Angliru.

We live in seperate universes if you think Roglic was stronger than Vinge on Angliru. That's completely crazy to me.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

We live in seperate universes if you think Roglic was stronger than Vinge on Angliru. That's completely crazy to me.

Well I’m suggesting he would have maintained the overall lead after Angliru, not necessarily beaten Vingegaard; however, he led the entire way and the numbers were higher than Vingegaard’s Tourmalet climb.

https://lanternerouge.com/2023/09/08/jumbo-visma-complete-domination-on-tourmalet-la-vuelta-2023-stage-13/

https://lanternerouge.com/2023/09/13/jumbo-visma-torches-altu-de-langliru-la-vuelta-2023-stage-17/

 

[CleanCiclismo]

Crazy how Rog always comes back stronger after injuries. Some cyclists go to altitude to peak, Rog just gets injured. The end results is he now has 4 Vueltas and 1 Giro with a Tour podium. All that in the last 5 years.