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Proposed 2017 tour UK stages revealed

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MatParker1711

Oct 19, 2015
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-35040022

Stage 1:
_87096409_londonproposedroutes-amended28july2015-2_page_2.jpg


Stage one would have started in Greenwich, heading west through London towards Bushey and Richmond Parks, before a loop through Surrey back to The Mall, via a detour around Hampstead
Click to expand...

Stage 2 (Assumed TTT):
_87096411_londonproposedroutes-amended28july2015-2_page_3.jpg


Stage two would have been a flat, east-west test of speed and strength against the clock, passing some of London's most iconic sights
Click to expand...

Stage 3 (*** Budget Cuts):
_87096413_londonproposedroutes-amended28july2015-2_page_4.jpg


Stage three would have been familiar to London-Brighton riders, with a climb up Ditchling Beacon, before heading west along the coast for a rolling finale into Hastings
Click to expand...

That third stage looks epic, note to Tour of Britain do that.
 
Libertine Seguros

Libertine Seguros

Feb 20, 2010
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A couple of decent climbs, but really not that similar to stage 2 of the 2014 Tour. More like one of the Brétagne stages in the 2008 Tour.

Stages 1 and 2 of the proposal have diseases, too. A pan flat city sprint on day 1 so somebody like Kittel gets the maillot jaune on basically a crappier version of the RideLondon race course, but with the pressure of a Tour stage meaning the escape isn't going to get the leeway it gets in that race and without the platforms for a strong break, then an urban TTT? About as bad as opening weekends get. Scenery is all we get to enliven those kinds of stages and this ain't going to have that.

Yorkshire was a perfectly good GT start (although stage 1 was pretty lame given the potential options, all told), this is a weak proposal by comparison. The Dusseldorf ITT around a fricking fairground was less uninspiring.
 
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MatParker1711

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Re:

Libertine Seguros said:
A couple of decent climbs, but really not that similar to stage 2 of the 2014 Tour. More like one of the Brétagne stages in the 2008 Tour.

Stages 1 and 2 of the proposal have diseases, too. A pan flat city sprint on day 1 so somebody like Kittel gets the maillot jaune on basically a crappier version of the RideLondon race course, but with the pressure of a Tour stage meaning the escape isn't going to get the leeway it gets in that race and without the platforms for a strong break, then an urban TTT? About as bad as opening weekends get. Scenery is all we get to enliven those kinds of stages and this ain't going to have that.

Yorkshire was a perfectly good GT start (although stage 1 was pretty lame given the potential options, all told), this is a weak proposal by comparison. The Dusseldorf ITT around a fricking fairground was less uninspiring.
Click to expand...

Crowds in the dales were a big reason for that, meant etixx couldn't push as hard to drop kittel.
 
Jonhard

Jonhard

Sep 30, 2014
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That's probably as close as I will ever get to seeing the Tour come through the suburban London roads I grew up on. It would have been amazing to see, on a purely personal level.

I still wouldn't support giving ASO £4m for the privilege though.
 
D

damian13ster

May 27, 2014
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Valv.Piti said:
damian13ster said:
Please make that stage 2 an ITT.....
TTTs suck
Click to expand...

As long as they are long, I absolutely dont have any problem with them. 30 km is not long, but its not a gimmicky 10-20 ITT like we see in the Giro and especially the Vuelta.
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I have a problem with them since ultimately cycling is about being the strongest rider. TTTs allow weak time-trialers to gain time on good ones just because they are from a rich team that can afford to send really strong squad.

They do look good on TV, but I prefer ITTs
 
Valv.Piti

Valv.Piti

Aug 3, 2015
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damian13ster said:
Valv.Piti said:
damian13ster said:
Please make that stage 2 an ITT.....
TTTs suck
Click to expand...

As long as they are long, I absolutely dont have any problem with them. 30 km is not long, but its not a gimmicky 10-20 ITT like we see in the Giro and especially the Vuelta.
Click to expand...


I have a problem with them since ultimately cycling is about being the strongest rider. TTTs allow weak time-trialers to gain time on good ones just because they are from a rich team that can afford to send really strong squad.

They do look good on TV, but I prefer ITTs
Click to expand...

I probably also would've preferred a ITT, but a 30 km TTT is not bad imo. Its long enough for teams to pick 1, maybe even 2 for the sole purpose of winning 10-20 seconds over the other favorites which ultimately makes the teams more slim in the mountains. Its not a BIG deal, but theoretically it should make for less dominating team in the mountains when you fx. pick a rider like Dowsett. Thats one reason to embrace the TTT as long its not on the menu card every year and, as I said before, not is gimmicky and its sole purpose just is to kick the event off...

Also, I think the point about the bad teams being at a disadvantage is decent, but we know that the the teams with the biggest favorites are the ones with the best team which in turn reduces the gaps between the real protagonists anyways. And even if it didnt I dont really see that as a huge problem as long as the TTT's arent super long like the early 00's. I even give the ASO a little credit since they know their men (Pinot, Bardet, Rolland) are the one losing the most time - but then again, maybe thats what they want. Or they just like the TTT.
 
Libertine Seguros

Libertine Seguros

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Michele Scarponi lost more time over 30km in the TTT in the 2010 Giro than he lost in the other 3000+km combined. Over a 30km ITT, no way he loses over 2 minutes to Ivan Basso at that point in their respective careers.

In the 2009 Tour, 9 of the top 10 were in the top 4 teams in the TTT, which was less than 40km in length. The only interloper was Christophe Le Mevel, who was given a gift of nearly 20 minutes in a breakaway and wouldn't have made 10th if Levi Leipheimer hadn't crashed out of the race.
 
Valv.Piti

Valv.Piti

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Libertine Seguros said:
Michele Scarponi lost more time over 30km in the TTT in the 2010 Giro than he lost in the other 3000+km combined. Over a 30km ITT, no way he loses over 2 minutes to Ivan Basso at that point in their respective careers.

In the 2009 Tour, 9 of the top 10 were in the top 4 teams in the TTT, which was less than 40km in length. The only interloper was Christophe Le Mevel, who was given a gift of nearly 20 minutes in a breakaway and wouldn't have made 10th if Levi Leipheimer hadn't crashed out of the race.
Click to expand...

And your point is... there are examples of GT's where the TTT actually has impacted the overall GC recently? Because, honestly, if they didnt, there really wouldnt be any point in it. At this point its of relative little significance since all the favorites team's (Movistar, Astana, Saxo, Movistar and BMC) in a 30km ITT basically are the 5 best teams in that setting.
 
Armchair cyclist

Armchair cyclist

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Mar 22, 2010
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Re: Re:

Valv.Piti said:
At this point its of relative little significance since all the favorites team's (Movistar, Astana, Saxo, Movistar and BMC) in a 30km ITT basically are the 5 best teams in that setting.
Click to expand...
Some people might think that there is a guy on the Sky team who has a chance in GTs.

In the last 3 years, teams finishing in the top 5 of a GT also include Katusha, Orica, Trek, FdJ, Ag2R, Cannondale Garmin, Etixx Quickstep, Direct Energie and Lampre. A rider from yet another team was odds on favourite for the Vuelta this year with a handful of stages remaining.

TTTs of significant length would not be as neutral to the outcome as you seem to suggest.

They could make a difference, and if long enough could be of interest in that they change the formula for selecting a squad that otherwise could be a mountain train. But overall, in that they make the higher placings more predictable and are rarely an interesting stage to watch, I am not a fan.
 
Valv.Piti

Valv.Piti

Aug 3, 2015
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Re: Re:

Armchair cyclist said:
Valv.Piti said:
At this point its of relative little significance since all the favorites team's (Movistar, Astana, Saxo, Movistar and BMC) in a 30km ITT basically are the 5 best teams in that setting.
Click to expand...
Some people might think that there is a guy on the Sky team who has a chance in GTs.

In the last 3 years, teams finishing in the top 5 of a GT also include Katusha, Orica, Trek, FdJ, Ag2R, Cannondale Garmin, Etixx Quickstep, Direct Energie and Lampre. A rider from yet another team was odds on favourite for the Vuelta this year with a handful of stages remaining.

TTTs of significant length would not be as neutral to the outcome as you seem to suggest.

They could make a difference, and if long enough could be of interest in that they change the formula for selecting a squad that otherwise could be a mountain train. But overall, in that they make the higher placings more predictable and are rarely an interesting stage to watch, I am not a fan.
Click to expand...

I think its pretty obvious that I meant to write Sky instead of Movistar twice. I have a hard time believing such a bright and young guy like you had a hard time figuring that out!

But I am talking about the Tour here. We all know that the TTT in Spain doesnt mean mean anything since its rarely even 10km long. And at that point, my point is why even have it. In the Giro, it tops about 20km. Just skip them then. And your next point you seem to have stolen from my post above - teams selecting their teams for the TTT specifically is a good thing! I think thats one of the biggest incentives to even have a TTT.

And lastly, let me got out on a limb: The 5-6 biggest odds favorites for the Tour (Tejay, Porte, Aru, Contador, Quintana and Froome) wont lost more than 40 seconds to each other - this year, on a TTT with a similar length, Nibali lost 35 seconds to Tejay and was the biggest 'loser'. He lost frickin 6 minutes the next day. Im pretty confident that it will come down the mountains.
 
D

damian13ster

May 27, 2014
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Re: Re:

Valv.Piti said:
Armchair cyclist said:
Valv.Piti said:
At this point its of relative little significance since all the favorites team's (Movistar, Astana, Saxo, Movistar and BMC) in a 30km ITT basically are the 5 best teams in that setting.
Click to expand...
Some people might think that there is a guy on the Sky team who has a chance in GTs.

In the last 3 years, teams finishing in the top 5 of a GT also include Katusha, Orica, Trek, FdJ, Ag2R, Cannondale Garmin, Etixx Quickstep, Direct Energie and Lampre. A rider from yet another team was odds on favourite for the Vuelta this year with a handful of stages remaining.

TTTs of significant length would not be as neutral to the outcome as you seem to suggest.

They could make a difference, and if long enough could be of interest in that they change the formula for selecting a squad that otherwise could be a mountain train. But overall, in that they make the higher placings more predictable and are rarely an interesting stage to watch, I am not a fan.
Click to expand...

I think its pretty obvious that I meant to write Sky instead of Movistar twice. I have a hard time believing such a bright and young guy like you had a hard time figuring that out!

But I am talking about the Tour here. We all know that the TTT in Spain doesnt mean mean anything since its rarely even 10km long. And at that point, my point is why even have it. In the Giro, it tops about 20km. Just skip them then. And your next point you seem to have stolen from my post above - teams selecting their teams for the TTT specifically is a good thing! I think thats one of the biggest incentives to even have a TTT.

And lastly, let me got out on a limb: The 5-6 biggest odds favorites for the Tour (Tejay, Porte, Aru, Contador, Quintana and Froome) wont lost more than 40 seconds to each other - this year, on a TTT with a similar length, Nibali lost 35 seconds to Tejay and was the biggest 'loser'. He lost frickin 6 minutes the next day. Im pretty confident that it will come down the mountains.
Click to expand...


And thats the problem. If it is a TT, at least make it a proper TT, which is individual one. So that cyclists that are actually good at TTs can make up/gain some time on them
 
O

Orbit501

Aug 27, 2012
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Re:

Velolover2 said:
Stage 3 looks very good.

Ardennes-like climbs?
Click to expand...


Knowing the hills in Hastings and Fairlight as well as I do, I can assure you that this stage would be an epic finish! Truly mouthwatering stage that.

That profile gives you a really good idea. We have some very nasty short but steep climbs round these parts.
 
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