Puerto Dismissed. Shame!

Mar 10, 2009
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Puerto put to bed.

I suppose too many footballers are involved firstly, and cyclists 2nd. But it's sad to see the Spanish play feline and bury their own poop.

Sad.

Lance back, Puerto gone, only the lowly cyclist getting busted....all reeks of a strong and healthy omerta, alive and well
 
May 6, 2009
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So will it mean that Valverde has got almost a free pass? He can't race in Italy, but will the UCI try and make his ban global now that OP is dead?
 
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Anonymous

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I bet Basso is ****ed. He thought he did the right thing by (partially) admitting his wrongdoings, just to see guys like Valverde hit the jackpot in the Vuelta...

Just goes to show, if you are semi-busted and named in a drug ring, keep your mouth shut and you'll be able to keep racing
 
Jun 16, 2009
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Mountain Goat said:
I bet Basso is ****ed. He thought he did the right thing by (partially) admitting his wrongdoings, just to see guys like Valverde hit the jackpot in the Vuelta...

Just goes to show, if you are semi-busted and named in a drug ring, keep your mouth shut and you'll be able to keep racing
What comes around goes around. Justice will come to Valverde.
 
I'm conflicted on this. I'm in some ways glad it's finally over, as very little true justice came out of it. Cases were cherry picked, many ignored, and little was actually done in the end. But it had been hanging over the sport for well over three years and needed to be over.

It's just a real, real shame that in the end it did so very little to change the sport and clean up some of the worst filth in it. :(
 
Sep 21, 2009
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Spanish justice system does not allow for retroactive application of any law. Antidoping laws were enacted in Spain after Operación Puerto. Then, no athlete can be prosecuted by justice based on the findings of OP.
 
Apr 2, 2009
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200 blood sacks, 3 id's. Then it all gets swept under the carpet. If a retroactive law doesn't exsist in Spain, then the courts-parliament enacts a new law which makes retroactivity applicable to this case.

The real issue is that there has been a total lack of political/judicial will to bring the dopers to justice. In this sense justice itself has been subordinated to the economic interests of corporate sponsorship and Spanish nationalism. The athletes have been covered up in the greater economic interests of the corporate driven sport world.

Which is all very sad and demonstrates that, by now, sport is merely about money. Nothing else.
 
Mar 10, 2009
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what I view as a shame is the only names in the public domain are those of cyclists all the other sports get off scott free again
 
Sep 21, 2009
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rhubroma said:
200 blood sacks, 3 id's. Then it all gets swept under the carpet. If a retroactive law doesn't exsist in Spain, then the courts-parliament enacts a new law which makes retroactivity applicable to this case.

The real issue is that there has been a total lack of political/judicial will to bring the dopers to justice. In this sense justice itself has been subordinated to the economic interests of corporate sponsorship and Spanish nationalism. The athletes have been covered up in the greater economic interests of the corporate driven sport world.

Which is all very sad and demonstrates that, by now, sport is merely about money. Nothing else.
The Spanish parliament enacted a law several years ago introducing tax benefits during a limited period of 6 years for foreigners making more than 60000€ a year in order to attract talent. The result of such law was that they attracted the talent of Zidane, Bechkam, Kaká or Cristiano Ronaldo who pay less taxes than Messi or Raúl for a comparable net income. That law has been modified this year to revert to the previous situation against the will of the soccer clubs. Players negotiate with clubs their earnings before taxes, so the increase in taxation is at the expense of the clubs. Do you still think that parliament and justice surrender to the corporate driven sport world?

Retroactive application of law (and in particular punitive laws) introduces very serious concerns about uncertainty in the legal system. I'm not an expert in legal matters, but if criminals (including terrorists) are judged according to the law at the moment of their offense and not at the moment of the trial is because there must be constraints for making laws retroactive.

I'd like to see sport events free of doping and corruption. But to me it seems that sports authorities are unable or unwilling to do so and try to involve ordinary justice to escape their own responsibility. Sports justice administration should be separated from ordinary justice. If not, well... then I'd like someone to take FIFA to the courts for allowing France and not Ireland to play the 2010 FIFA World Champs :cool:
 
rhubroma said:
If a retroactive law doesn't exsist in Spain, then the courts-parliament enacts a new law which makes retroactivity applicable to this case.
I don't like the idea of passing new laws to judge past behavior. While the Puerto case was hugely mismanaged, I think the courts ran the risk of setting a bad precedent if they did that.

That being said, I'm glad to see it finally brought to some sort of resolution. At times, it appeared that everyone was just hoping that the tainted cyclists would go away. In addition, just because someone was implicated in the case shouldn't mean that we automatically assume they are guilty as well.
 
Mar 16, 2009
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It ain't over yet

While some Spanish media reports indicated earlier that this was the final possible appeal in the case, later reports indicated that the court only said that the material could not be released while the legal process was underway. This could indicate that the evidence might be released when the Spanish investigation is finished.

WADA frustrated by Spanish courts in Operación Puerto case
 
I'm just waiting with bated breath for the rocket scientist here to reveal how much and to whom Armstrong had to pay to make this all go away. Was it a loan or just a tax deductible check from his non-profit money-making organization? Was it all for the glory of OMERTA or is his trying to make allies for next years assualt on Col Contador? Inquiring minds want to know what the link is - don't let us down.
 
Apr 2, 2009
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icefire said:
The Spanish parliament enacted a law several years ago introducing tax benefits during a limited period of 6 years for foreigners making more than 60000€ a year in order to attract talent. The result of such law was that they attracted the talent of Zidane, Bechkam, Kaká or Cristiano Ronaldo who pay less taxes than Messi or Raúl for a comparable net income. That law has been modified this year to revert to the previous situation against the will of the soccer clubs. Players negotiate with clubs their earnings before taxes, so the increase in taxation is at the expense of the clubs. Do you still think that parliament and justice surrender to the corporate driven sport world?

Retroactive application of law (and in particular punitive laws) introduces very serious concerns about uncertainty in the legal system. I'm not an expert in legal matters, but if criminals (including terrorists) are judged according to the law at the moment of their offense and not at the moment of the trial is because there must be constraints for making laws retroactive.

I'd like to see sport events free of doping and corruption. But to me it seems that sports authorities are unable or unwilling to do so and try to involve ordinary justice to escape their own responsibility. Sports justice administration should be separated from ordinary justice. If not, well... then I'd like someone to take FIFA to the courts for allowing France and not Ireland to play the 2010 FIFA World Champs :cool:
Two considerations: 1 that the law was modified this year in light of OP, says nothing of the integrity of the Spanish authorities. Rather it seems a reactionary consequence to. 2. We have 200 blood bags, and, consequently, 200 dopers - consequently for which reasonable motive would they not find a reason to identify the culprits other than economic? :cool:
 
Mar 10, 2009
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while ol' pharmstrong...

...has a lot of pull, I really think this one is more volatile due to the soccer player's inclusion in the list. I think the cycling end of things is secondary from a 30,000 ft view. Purely a guess.

But from a cycling angle, totally sad to see altogether. I would think Armstrong would rather push this if he had the ability to do so, since some big rivals were clearly getting their blood manipulated, Contador chief among them. :mad:
 
Jul 9, 2009
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Grilled said:
...has a lot of pull, I really think this one is more volatile due to the soccer player's inclusion in the list. I think the cycling end of things is secondary from a 30,000 ft view. Purely a guess.

But from a cycling angle, totally sad to see altogether. I would think Armstrong would rather push this if he had the ability to do so, since some big rivals were clearly getting their blood manipulated, Contador chief among them. :mad:
Armstrong would never "push this" as you put it, even if he himself had other sources I am sure that some of his current and past teammates are on the list. The end of Omerta could also mean others with knowledge spilling the beans on him as well.
 
Sep 21, 2009
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rhubroma said:
Two considerations: 1 that the law was modified this year in light of OP, says nothing of the integrity of the Spanish authorities. Rather it seems a reactionary consequence to. 2. We have 200 blood bags, and, consequently, 200 dopers - consequently for which reasonable motive would they not find a reason to identify the culprits other than economic? :cool:
We have 200 blood bags of 200 dopers that cannot be prosecuted with the law applicable at that time. Only doctors and team managers can be prosecuted in this case. OP led to a change in the law, but that change is not retroactive.

And I'm still wondering why governments have to pass laws following instructions from sports authorities to prosecute the likes of Valverde but not the likes of Thierry Henry :cool:

As I said before, sports authorities, managers and athletes are unable/unwilling to fix the doping problem. But they are passing the cost of pretending the opposite to the taxpayers asking governments to enact laws and spend their resources (police and justice) prosecuting only a selected bunch of wrongdoers: dopers, yes, other kind of cheaters, no.
 
Jul 19, 2009
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icefire said:
And I'm still wondering why governments have to pass laws following instructions from sports authorities to prosecute the likes of Valverde but not the likes of Thierry Henry :cool:
What are you speaking from faults during as it was similar to doping?

What is the worse in football a hand followed by a goal or a violent act on the field?
Since more 100 years, such faults are part of team sports and everyone learns that referees will do mistakes.

About Henry's hand, who scored an injustified goal in Georgia-Ireland? Who could have chose to correct referee's error? without that goal Irelnad woud have been harder qualifications and must have ranked worst than 2nd.

Every player on the field catches sometimes jerzey of an opponent, who has already requested a punition to referee for that fault?
 
Mar 18, 2009
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Alpe d'Huez said:
At least until Valverde and anyone else left on the list in other sports has retired. :mad:
I agree.....those involved will have long left the sports they are involved in before, if ever there is conclusion to this.
 
Sep 21, 2009
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poupou said:
What are you speaking from faults during as it was similar to doping?

What is the worse in football a hand followed by a goal or a violent act on the field?
Since more 100 years, such faults are part of team sports and everyone learns that referees will do mistakes.

About Henry's hand, who scored an injustified goal in Georgia-Ireland? Who could have chose to correct referee's error? without that goal Irelnad woud have been harder qualifications and must have ranked worst than 2nd.

Every player on the field catches sometimes jerzey of an opponent, who has already requested a punition to referee for that fault?
Henry's hand is just an example of an action breaking the sport rules that has dramatic influence in the final result. Of course, to be fair we should take into account all infractions in all games.

My point is that both doping and faults are altering the competition results. The difference is that chasing dopers is more difficult and more expensive, so sports authorities are passing the cost to others, i.e., police, justice and in the end, taxpayers. For the easy stuff, it's part of the sport and they can handle that without external interference.

I understand perfectly that unlike faults in games, doping has severe effects in athletes' health. But it seems that athletes themselves are not interested in anyone else saving them from the evil, so devoting public resources to prosecute them (parliaments enacting laws, police investigations and operations and justice court trials) looks like a waste of time and money unless those involved in the game (teams, competition organisers and sport authorities) pay for the actual cost of all this.
 
Jun 18, 2009
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Mellow Velo said:
With no constructive content an any cycling subject, I think that your first phrase should read: "I'm just waiting with baited breath...":rolleyes:

Another tool for our toolbox.
No offence, Mellow, but if you want to be a spelling Nazi, you should try to be right.

It is 'bated' breath. Ideally you'd have an apostrophe before the 'a', as it's more correctly, 'abated' breath.

But if 'bated' breath is good enough for Shakespeare - Merchant of Venice - then I dare say it's good enough for this forum.
 
Good post icefire.

The sad part is that despite numerous cyclists now ending up dead at an alarmingly young age, these situations are viewed as some sort of anomaly, the same way most every time someone comes up positive, or is implicated on doping, or a scandal breaks, the UCI calls it an isolated case, while the rest of the sport is pretty much clean.

Unfortunately economics, and old fashioned greed are at the head of most of this.
 
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Anonymous

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Runitout said:
No offence, Mellow, but if you want to be a spelling Nazi, you should try to be right.

It is 'bated' breath. Ideally you'd have an apostrophe before the 'a', as it's more correctly, 'abated' breath.

But if 'bated' breath is good enough for Shakespeare - Merchant of Venice - then I dare say it's good enough for this forum.
Actually, I think MV was being smart by spelling it as "baited", meaning that the poster was trying to "bait" everyone by being the first to mention Armstrong in a clear non-Armstrong thread...

----

About the thread, I am starting to think that with the Soccer players involved, even if OP was blown open to reveal 200 names, the impact on soccer would be greater than the impact on cycling, as this kind of practice is almost unheard of in soccer except by the people that really investigate doping (the forum dudes). Perhaps its the spanish soccer league/association that are really trying to shut this case down and supress names
 
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