Quadafi's death.

[The Hitch]

Would those people who ridiculed the celebration of Osama bin Ladens death, have the same thing to say to these people

http://www.bloomberg.com/photo/liby...ddafi-s-end-after-months-of-figh-/114585.html

I for one think they have every right to celebrate.

I dont see death as the ultimate punishment or ultimate defeat. There is a line you can cross and some people have crossed this line.

Their demise can be a joyous occasion for some of their victims, a symbol of a new hope, a new life, and I would not dare spoil the party for those who have suffered so.

It brings joy to my heart to see the child in the middle of the picture, celebrate a potential future for himself and his loved once.

Far more important and worthy of joyous release, than the traditional reasons for celebration these days - winning a football match.

 

[ramjambunath]

I wasn't overjoyed with celebrations after Bin Laden's death and definitely am not impressed about the celebrations after the death of Gaddafi. Were they good human beings, no they weren't. Anyone involved in terrorist activities (Lockerbie and Al Qaida) are sick individual but celebrating their death makes us (if we do celebrate) no different from them and I would like to think of myself as not a blood thirsty person.

Is it a reason for hope? Definitely.
Is it a reason for optimism? Definitely.
Is it a reason for caution for the future? Much more so than either of the previous two questions. And especially so for Europe.
Will it make the world a better place? Only time will tell.

There's a discussion in the politics thread about this.

Edit: It's more political there and this seems more about human reaction. That was my perception at least.

 

[ImmaculateKadence]

Ezekiel 33:11:

I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn from their ways and live.

 

[Zam_Olyas]

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/storie...ME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2011-10-20-12-09-44

breaking news... Gadhafi's son Muatassim killed in Sirte.-EF

 

[Zam_Olyas]

AP The Associated Press
Clinton learned of Gadhafi's death in Kabul on a BlackBerry in between TV interviews. "Wow. Huh," she said, unaware she was on camera. -EF

 

[rhubroma]

I find no solace in celebrating the death of a murderer.

His victims will never come back.

Nor will the loss of those who suffered at his hands have their loved ones back.

If anything there is a sense of tragic conclusion, though the tragedy remains. It's not a party.

Hardly anything to celebrate. If anything a time for being alone. Reflectively alone. And to move on.

 

[ramjambunath]

Zam is it confirmed? Can't find anything on Al Jazeera.
So much for human rights.

Edit: It's there the NTC information minister says it. He was hiding with his father.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Would those people who ridiculed the celebration of Osama bin Ladens death, have the same thing to say to these people

http://www.bloomberg.com/photo/liby...ddafi-s-end-after-months-of-figh-/114585.html

I for one think they have every right to celebrate.

I dont see death as the ultimate punishment or ultimate defeat. There is a line you can cross and some people have crossed this line.

Their demise can be a joyous occasion for some of their victims, a symbol of a new hope, a new life, and I would not dare spoil the party for those who have suffered so.

It brings joy to my heart to see the child in the middle of the picture, celebrate a potential future for himself and his loved once.

Far more important and worthy of joyous release, than the traditional reasons for celebration these days - winning a football match.

To the highlighted - hardly a like v like situation.
The Libyan people are celebrating the independence and freedom that comes from the removal of Ghadaffi.

I think many Western Governments will be more relived that Ghadaffi is dead with his secrets than many Libyans who may have preferred he was captured and brought before justice.

 

[oldborn]

Dude would be alive if not loaded with oil&gas.

 

[ramjambunath]

To the highlighted - hardly a like v like situation.
The Libyan people are celebrating the independence and freedom that comes from the removal of Ghadaffi.

I think many Western Governments will be more relived that Ghadaffi is dead with his secrets than many Libyans who may have preferred he was captured and brought before justice.

They will be relieved that a political rival and a man who beyond a reasonable level of doubt supported a terrorist attack died. Politically, the problems start now. I made this point earlier in the Politics thread, one of the most favoured routes (and unfortunately one of the most deadly as well) for illegal immigration from Africa into Italy and to the rest of Europe. That was the reason for the cozying up to Gaddafi, who in his last years as ruler of Libya effectively policed the borders on the South and West.

But oldborn summed it up the best.

 

[Rechtschreibfehler]

To the highlighted - hardly a like v like situation.
The Libyan people are celebrating the independence and freedom that comes from the removal of Ghadaffi.

Indeed, the situation isn't very much alike.
Ghadaffis dead happend in a battle in a real war. He more or less was the old regime there were fighting against in many ways. So this is a victory of a very diffrent sort.

In contrast, celebrations about Obamas dead were not celebratiosn about winning a war, but the celebration of revenge and the execution of someone who should have been brought to justice in a trial. There is no justice in simply executing someone. Also here, it would have been better to capture Ghadaffi, but I'd guess they didn't even try - out of pragmatic reasons.

 

[rhubroma]

To the highlighted - hardly a like v like situation.
The Libyan people are celebrating the independence and freedom that comes from the removal of Ghadaffi.

I think many Western Governments will be more relived that Ghadaffi is dead with his secrets than many Libyans who may have preferred he was captured and brought before justice.

So true......

 

[Anonymous]

The Libyan people have every right to celebrate Ghadaffis death.

The American people did not have the right to dance in the streets celebrating Bin Ladens death (if hes actually dead which I doubt)

 

[ramjambunath]

Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki has welcomed the news of Gaddafi's death, arguing his demise and that of Saddam Hussein were "proof of the potential of the people".

"We congratulate our Libyan brothers and the [National] Transitional Council on the occasion of getting rid of the tyrant Gaddafi, who ran Libya for four decades filled with oppression," Maliki's office said in a statement.

"The similarity of the fate of tyrants in Iraq and Libya and elsewhere is proof of the potential of the people to defeat dictators, however long they have been in power". [AFP]

Sick idiot. Congratulate the people when there is a genuine functioning govt not a murder. Then again, he hasn't done too much governing has he.

 

[thirteen]

Dude would be alive if not loaded with oil&gas.

this bothers me more than anything...

 

[rhubroma]

Well, I don't know, have you lived in Libya?

In the general scheme, I think there's a euphoria among the majority of the population, which feels that it has gotten the upper hand. Whether or not that will translates into real self-determination remains to be seen.

 

[ramjambunath]

The Libyan people have every right to celebrate Ghadaffis death.

The American people did not have the right to dance in the streets celebrating Bin Ladens death (if hes actually dead which I doubt)

Why though?
What has it changed?
Will Libya all of a sudden be a better place tomorrow?

If anything this is an indictment about the levels of human rights of the NTC.

Edit: My first post was about the movement in general.

 

[ramjambunath]

Well, I don't know, have you lived in Libya?

In the general scheme, I think there's a euphoria among the majority of the population, which feels that it has gotten the upper hand. Whether or not that will translates into real self-determination remains to be seen.

Let there be euphoria in Libya (though it would be better not to celebrate murder) but a foreign leader should be more circumspect and shouldn't come out with statements such as these.

US President Obama just spoke about the post-Gaddafi era in Libya, saying "difficult days" are ahead and that the US and the international community want to see a democratic and inclusive Libya emerging. He said he looked forward to a stable interim government and called Gaddafi's death a "historic moment".

That's a better way to put it, instead of openly celebrating it and as you know I am not normally a supporter of his statements.

 

[hrotha]

Dude would be alive if not loaded with oil&gas.

Things were all peachy with this dude and his oil & gas just one year ago and had been for a while after decades of difficult relations. This dude was no longer a problem for the West. He was our new buddy, and the PR effort in the media was pretty obvious. He didn't fall because he had oil and gas. He fell because he was an utter failure at managing the protests.

 

[Rechtschreibfehler]

Things were all peachy with this dude and his oil & gas just one year ago and had been for a while after decades of difficult relations. This dude was no longer a problem for the West. He was our new buddy, and the PR effort in the media was pretty obvious. He didn't fall because he had oil and gas. He fell because he was an utter failure at managing the protests.

Also, good functioning dictators are pretty handy if you need gas and oil.
Democraties are only for real humans.
For example: did anyone living in where ever it was need this Allende guy?

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Why though?
What has it changed?
Will Libya all of a sudden be a better place tomorrow?

If anything this is an indictment about the levels of human rights of the NTC.

Edit: My first post was about the movement in general.

In a word, yes.

The people celebrating are not spectators on CNN or relying on updates via twitter - they were the oppressed citizens of Ghadaffis regime.

Many will have literally been risking their own lives in the fight for his removal - so of course they will celebrate his removal (death or capture) as it has liberated their country and allows the people of Libya to dictate their future.

 

[Rechtschreibfehler]

I think he's being quite specific about celebrating a persons death, isolated from the circumstances.

 

[Zam_Olyas]

In a word, yes.

The people celebrating are not spectators on CNN or relying on updates via twitter - they were the oppressed citizens of Ghadaffis regime.

Many will have literally been risking their own lives in the fight for his removal - so of course they will celebrate his removal (death or capture) as it has liberated their country and allows the people of Libya to dictate their future.

I, for one, am not celebrating.

 

[oldborn]

Things were all peachy with this dude and his oil & gas just one year ago and had been for a while after decades of difficult relations. This dude was no longer a problem for the West. He was our new buddy, and the PR effort in the media was pretty obvious. He didn't fall because he had oil and gas. He fell because he was an utter failure at managing the protests.

Well maybe.
But since when western coalition favors human rights?
I did not seen any NATO live fire exercise over Algeria, Morocco, Bahrain or Siria, did you? Of course we can allways say it is internal affair
So I am assuming that oil&gas is main reason. Without NATO planes dude would be alive.

 

[Zam_Olyas]

Well maybe.
But since when western coalition favors human rights?
I did not seen any NATO live fire exercise over Algeria, Morocco, Bahrain or Siria, did you? Of course we can allways say it is internal affair
So I am assuming that oil&gas is main reason. Without NATO planes dude would be alive.

Re syria, i dont think it will ever happen, it will be too risky, i think.