Race Radios: Better Olympic races without?

[red_flanders]

Passing thought, but I notice that both the men's and women's Olympic road races may have benefitted from the lack of radios. Curious what y'all think. Seems that the course design set things up for sprint finishes, but breakaways got away and stayed away.

Seems maybe the main reason in the men's race was the smaller team size, and teams who are used to controlling couldn't, but I can help but think the lack of radios played a part in it. Not constantly knowing what the gaps were, confusion about who exactly was in the break, at least for a while, etc.

Your thoughts?

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

Passing thought, but I notice that both the men's and women's Olympic road races may have benefitted from the lack of radios. Curious what y'all think. Seems that the course design set things up for sprint finishes, but breakaways got away and stayed away.

Seems maybe the main reason in the men's race was the smaller team size, and teams who are used to controlling couldn't, but I can help but think the lack of radios played a part in it. Not constantly knowing what the gaps were, confusion about who exactly was in the break, at least for a while, etc.

Your thoughts?

Probably a bit of both. It certainly seemed that riders were having trouble getting time checks for the motorcycles which may have added to the confusion.

My feeling is that the team size makes a bigger difference.

 

[Eyeballs Out]

95% down to smaller teams I would say. Maybe 100% judging by last year's Worlds

 

[spalco]

I don't think confusion necessarily makes better racing, but certainly if they ride often enough without race radios, maybe they'll learn to pay attention again who's in the break.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Thanks for this thread, so i can repeat what i said in the fogotten "Bore Tour" thread:

"Who needs more MTF´s or less TT´s for exciting racing? As we just witnessed in the olympic road race, it´s possible to win flat "stages" from a break.

So just shut up JV: Throw the RR´s in the dust bin, and make the teams smaller. The fans will honour it. As compromise, keep the power meters so that your riders have something to stare at.

Hope at least Prudhomme learned something from it. Let the DS´es cry. The fans pay the bills!"

 

[King Boonen]

I feel that removing race radios is akin to making someone run or swim blindfolded. I'm undecided on them but would lean towards keeping them.

 

[DirtyWorks]

The tactical advantages of team radios off the top of my head:

1. Measured response. Without team radio, responding to a breakaway becomes far less simple. No one is in your ear giving you up to the minute status.

2. Coordinated response. They may be negotiating some of the team deals on the road, but with race radios, the team's DS sorts it out in the car.

Smaller teams definitely improve racing. But, the UCI has big problems switching to a small-team format. The sport's top tier does not have the money to do it and they can't use low-budget teams to fill-in for a number of reasons.

 

[gustienordic]

95% down to smaller teams I would say. Maybe 100% judging by last year's Worlds

so instead of having 9 riders, only have 4 or 5? then what do the other 25 riders on the team do? Even if you have 4 races going at the same time, there will be almost 10 riders twiddling their fingers.

Small teams may lead to more exciting racing, but it screws over tons of people. If teams only need to field tiny teams, they won't keep 30 riders on their roster. There goes tons of riders jobs.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

so instead of having 9 riders, only have 4 or 5? then what do the other 25 riders on the team do? Even if you have 4 races going at the same time, there will be almost 10 riders twiddling their fingers.

Small teams may lead to more exciting racing, but it screws over tons of people. If teams only need to field tiny teams, they won't keep 30 riders on their roster. There goes tons of riders jobs.

Agree. But they managed to cut it from 10 to 9 some time ago, so why not cutting it to 8 now? There is still the Vuelta and Giro in the mix for those who don´t make it to the tour. Both GT´s improved compared to the earlier times.

 

[Eyeballs Out]

so instead of having 9 riders, only have 4 or 5? then what do the other 25 riders on the team do? Even if you have 4 races going at the same time, there will be almost 10 riders twiddling their fingers.

Small teams may lead to more exciting racing, but it screws over tons of people. If teams only need to field tiny teams, they won't keep 30 riders on their roster. There goes tons of riders jobs.

Well I was just answering the question as to why the olympics road races were more interesting but I think there is a strong argument for having smaller team sizes in general

The obvious next step would then be to invite more teams. More teams, smaller rosters. More sponsors who can afford to run a team. It might even create jobs for staff, mechanics etc

 

[DirtyWorks]

More sponsors who can afford to run a team.

Not really. The budgets would be somewhat smaller, but you'd have to find many more sponsors willing to pay in LOTS of money.

The UCI revenue/marketing strategy relies on having a super-premium category of races and consequent super-elite fields to demand the most money possible from everyone in the system including race promoters, and team owners.

Make that cheaper by going to smaller teams and it damages the perception of the value of that super-elite category when you can't fill your super-elite events with 100% of the blessed WorldTour riders.

 

[spalco]

Well I was just answering the question as to why the olympics road races were more interesting but I think there is a strong argument for having smaller team sizes in general

The obvious next step would then be to invite more teams. More teams, smaller rosters. More sponsors who can afford to run a team. It might even create jobs for staff, mechanics etc

But you would probably need more money overall, since there's less synergy and more teams would mean more riders would expect top dollar as team captains. And where's that money coming from?

I think that's actually a strong argument against smaller teams.

 

[El Oso]

Agree. But they managed to cut it from 10 to 9 some time ago, so why not cutting it to 8 now? There is still the Vuelta and Giro in the mix for those who don´t make it to the tour. Both GT´s improved compared to the earlier times.

I believe there are 8 per team for everything but the GTs. I agree with cutting it down to 8. They always complain that crashes are caused by too many riders on the road anyway.

 

[thehog]

I believe there are 8 per team for everything but the GTs. I agree with cutting it down to 8. They always complain that crashes are caused by too many riders on the road anyway.

12 man teams for a GT but only 8 can ride at anyone time. You can sub members in and out on a daily basis. If you sit one stage out that costs 30 minutes. 5 sub maximum.

 

[jens_attacks]

didn't have to do with the lack of radios.british thought they were god

and sincerely i never saw a team made of such aliens.at the worlds they will learn their lesson and attack left and right

creepy stuff

 

[Caruut]

12 man teams for a GT but only 8 can ride at anyone time. You can sub members in and out on a daily basis. If you sit one stage out that costs 30 minutes. 5 sub maximum.

30 minutes or the time of the last-placed rider+10. 8-man teams? I would go for 6 or 7.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

12 man teams for a GT but only 8 can ride at anyone time. You can sub members in and out on a daily basis. If you sit one stage out that costs 30 minutes. 5 sub maximum.

Good idea. But such stark changes won´t come soon. But to think a little bit further, then even 4/5 men squads would be possible. We´d have great racing, not for only two stages, but for 21...

 

[thehog]

30 minutes or the time of the last-placed rider+10. 8-man teams? I would go for 6 or 7.

Yes that works better. You’d have to do the same for green jersey points. You lose 10 points for being subbed. Good for injuries and crashes. Riders can heal. Taking a day out might mean less doping at the mid-range levels. GC contenders would have to race every day..

 

[GoGarmin]

I'd love to have seven men teams in the major tours -- would do so much more to open up the races. Could even add a couple more teams that way, too.

 

[Boeing]

Passing thought, but I notice that both the men's and women's Olympic road races may have benefitted from the lack of radios. Curious what y'all think. Seems that the course design set things up for sprint finishes, but breakaways got away and stayed away.

Seems maybe the main reason in the men's race was the smaller team size, and teams who are used to controlling couldn't, but I can help but think the lack of radios played a part in it. Not constantly knowing what the gaps were, confusion about who exactly was in the break, at least for a while, etc.

Your thoughts?

I agree in many respects. It is difficult to real in a break with out the car calculation the watts each rider need to push in and out of weather their turn for x time period over a certain distance and telling them precisely when to hit the switch till bonk etc.

Most GT stages are just that. Group tempo until the lap top in the car says when, where, who, how long after all variables are considered etc..

 

[Boeing]

I'd love to have seven men teams in the major tours -- would do so much more to open up the races. Could even add a couple more teams that way, too.

imagine the roads too. 44 less riders at this years tour would have made the route safer than a radio in each ear

 

[therhodeo]

I feel that removing race radios is akin to making someone run or swim blindfolded. I'm undecided on them but would lean towards keeping them.

Because cyclist totally can't make their own decisions without being told what to do.

 

[personal]

...

Smaller teams definitely improve racing. But, the UCI has big problems switching to a small-team format. The sport's top tier does not have the money to do it and they can't use low-budget teams to fill-in for a number of reasons.

Can you elaborate, please?

 

[Oldman]

I feel that removing race radios is akin to making someone run or swim blindfolded. I'm undecided on them but would lean towards keeping them.

Having raced with them a mostly without...the strong riders and teams can win either way. The racing is more attentive without them and that seems to be what the "fans" want. Safety...pft. Hands down safer without them and with less riders on silly roads with traffic islands. Someone can tell you on a radio you'll encounter a traffic barrier at 121.5km into the race but it's only the last several inches that count.

 

[ElChingon]

Yea well nobody thinks the fact that they have dual interests in this race that also adds to the confusion/conflicts of interest? (Nationalism and Paycheck) has anything to do with it?

Blame it on Race Radio's is like blaming rain on some people dancing around a fire pit.

I'm not saying the conflicting interest was the sole issue but its in there. Then you have a bunch of riders who just got done with the most important Grand Tour of the year, and maybe just maybe the end result of the Olympic race doesn't really factor into their goals. Sure if the situation is just right they'd go for it but egh, go all out for a race when you just got your saddle sores to start healing...

The next time this race comes around they should merge it with Worlds of that year and have it a few weeks after le Tour, not just one week afterwards (or was it less?). Merged as in who ever wins is Olympic and World Champ.

Lastly, lets not leave out just plain dumb racing, Brits not putting a guy in the break, totally a Cycling 101 textbook mistake. Everyone else just wore the Brits down and left them out to dry, this also spelled doom for any kind of a sprint finish, which in the end was the way it should of gone down anyway. The British team thinking they could control it and then actually saying they could, sealed their fate and the race tactics of everyone else.