Lidl-Trek (no longer Radioshack-Leopard Trek)

[eleven]

Got it, "Best interest of sponsors" does not include Mercedes. You are OK with screwing sponsors as long as they are not Brunyeel sponsors.

No, you're putting words in my mouth (as usual). Please reply to what I say, not some imaginary point you'd like to think I said.

You asked who was happier between the two, and I said Nissan. That doesn't mean that I feel Mercedes is getting screwed, nor that I believe they are unhappy.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

A few observations from a long time lurker.

1. Take the off topic discussion regarding your dislike for LA, JB, et al to an Off-Topic Thread. As someone who doesn't frequent the forum very much y'all sound like a bunch whining kids. It doesn't promote a welcoming environment to other members and guests. Now with that out of the way....

2. Regarding a possible merger. The business of cycling it to make money for sponsors. Anyone involved in any sort of business knows that your fortunes can change at any moment and that there is a need to be flexible. With that comes the potential that people will lose their jobs. That's just a fact of life and a fact of business. And every rider knows that. And if they don't then they're ignorant.

3. This potential merger is quite interesting...imagine the team dynamics if JB could create 2 to 3 squads of "Super Teams" that could be riding at any given time. There could be a Frank led team...an Andy led team, etc. I don't see RS/LT diminishing their focus on the Classics. Not with so many high profiled riders on the team...they'd need to be riding almost every week to keep their name and pictures in the press to keep the income coming in.

Just a few quick thoughts.

late,
Coz

Sponsors are there for exposure, they have no interest or stake in the financial side of the sport.
A fact of business is to put in place contracts and honor them.

 

[Race Radio]

No, you're putting words in my mouth (as usual). Please reply to what I say, not some imaginary point you'd like to think I said.

You asked who was happier between the two, and I said Nissan. That doesn't mean that I feel Mercedes is getting screwed, nor that I believe they are unhappy.

I replied to what you wrote. You have written multiple times about "Looking out for the best interests of the sponsors" Few rational people would think that Mercedes is OK if they are driving Nissan's next year or visa versa.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Those two are the same. Acting in the best interest of the sponsors is the only way to get funding to act in the interest of riders.

The riders are his employees.
If he did not have sponsors lined up he should have told the riders that and let them go when they have a chance to get new teams.

So Bob Stapleton wasn't acting in the best interest of his team?

I see you are giving out about RR putting "words in your mouth" - and then you write the above?

Stapleton didn't lie and say he has sponsors lined up and when he knew he could not get a sponsor he let the riders know.
Big difference between that and what appears to be going on with RS & LT.

 

[Coz Boogie]

So if Becca or Johan break a rider or sponsor contract it is no problem? The rider is just being "Ignorant" if they complain and should be more "Flexible"? Mercedes knew there was the potential that they would be driving Nissan's when they signed the deal?

I'm not here to discuss the morality of business....or lack there of. If there are riders/teams that wish to be more "rider-centric" then perhaps they should form a league of their own and/or unionize to provide them with a greater voice. Otherwise you play the cards you're dealt.

Besides, all we're doing here is speculating on a bunch of unknowns.

late,
Coz

 

[Race Radio]

I'm not here to discuss the morality of business....or lack there of. If there are riders/teams that wish to be more "rider-centric" then perhaps they should form a league of their own and/or unionize to provide them with a greater voice. Otherwise you play the cards you're dealt.

Besides, all we're doing here is speculating on a bunch of unknowns.

late,
Coz

We are not talking about playing cards, we are talking about contracts.

 

[Coz Boogie]

We are not talking about playing cards, we are talking about contracts.

And since we don't know the contents and language of any of the rider contracts (or sponsor contracts) it's pointless to argue in the ether about this.

late,
Coz

 

[Dr. Maserati]

And since we don't know the contents and language of any of the rider contracts (or sponsor contracts) it's pointless to argue in the ether about this.

late,
Coz

I would assume that riders who have contracts for next year will have "until 31st December 2012" on it somewhere.

 

[Cobblestones]

Is the Hog going to teach them to time trial as well?

Only 'fast cadence'.

 

[Flat Tyred]

I think both the Robbie's (McEwen and Hunter) on team RS will be moving on. That could be 2 more riders. McEwen signed on last minute this year because he didn't have a deal already. Hunter signed last minute also because of the Pegasus deal not working out. RS is not really a sprinting team anyway.

 

[mewmewmew13]

So if Becca or Johan break a rider or sponsor contract it is no problem? The rider is just being "Ignorant" if they complain and should be more "Flexible"? Mercedes knew there was the potential that they would be driving Nissan's when they signed the deal?

Just wondering if the new LeOpard dining kitchen truck is a Merc...

 

[eleven]

I replied to what you wrote. You have written multiple times about "Looking out for the best interests of the sponsors" Few rational people would think that Mercedes is OK if they are driving Nissan's next year or visa versa.

You're working under the presumption that Mercedes intended to continue their sponsorship. Do you have any evidence of that?

 

[eleven]

The riders are his employees.
If he did not have sponsors lined up he should have told the riders that and let them go when they have a chance to get new teams.

They DO have a chance to get new teams - and Johan has a vested interest in them finding new teams.

I see you are giving out about RR putting "words in your mouth" - and then you write the above?

Stapleton didn't lie and say he has sponsors lined up and when he knew he could not get a sponsor he let the riders know.
Big difference between that and what appears to be going on with RS & LT.

What leads you to believe RS doesn't have sponsors lined up? If you have a problem with a team not having sponsors lined up, you should talk to Becca.

 

[Anonymous]

You're working under the presumption that Mercedes intended to continue their sponsorship. Do you have any evidence of that?

You are working on the presumption that they aren't. Do you have any proof of that?

 

[Dr. Maserati]

They DO have a chance to get new teams - and Johan has a vested interest in them finding new teams.

Most of the signing is done at the Tour - although a lot of teams waited to see what would happen with HTC.

If Bruyneel knew he had a problem (if there is one) then he should have let his employees know then.

What leads you to believe RS doesn't have sponsors lined up? If you have a problem with a team not having sponsors lined up, you should talk to Becca.

But you see (unlike you) I do mention Becca and Leopard - I wrote this earlier:

....
It seems that JB (like Leopard) don't have the sponsors lined up that can support their teams, so I cant see that as acting in anyone's best interests.
It is a mess for both teams, the riders and ultimately the sport.

Any problem you see is your's, not anyone else.

 

[Polish]

You are working on the presumption that they aren't. Do you have any proof of that?

The lack of proof that they will not continue is not as inconceivable as the lack of proof that they will continue.

A first year law student could even see that.
Not so sure about second year law students though.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

You're working under the presumption that Mercedes intended to continue their sponsorship. Do you have any evidence of that?

Is the Mercedes Benz section of the Leopard Trek site ok?

Since both LEOPARD TREK and Mercedes-Benz accept nothing but the best, each side expects a fruitful and rewarding partnership in 2011 and beyond.

 

[eleven]

Most of the signing is done at the Tour - although a lot of teams waited to see what would happen with HTC.

If Bruyneel knew he had a problem (if there is one) then he should have let his employees know then.




But you see (unlike you) I do mention Becca and Leopard - I wrote this earlier:

Any problem you see is your's, not anyone else.

But you see, Bruyneel doesn't have a problem. He has a position with the new RS team. His group will manage it. And he will decide which riders are on it.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

But you see, Bruyneel doesn't have a problem. He has a position with the new RS team. His group will manage it. And he will decide which riders are on it.

And if there is a merge with Leopard then they have to break riders contracts - that is pretty big problem.

 

[Race Radio]

And since we don't know the contents and language of any of the rider contracts (or sponsor contracts) it's pointless to argue in the ether about this.

late,
Coz

All rider contracts are on file with the UCI, which is why it was so easy to know that the combine team would have too many riders. For most riders, the lower end riders who will likely get cut, there is a standard contract. Of course there are also staff, a lot of staff.

 

[Race Radio]

Enovos has a 3 years deal with Leopard. Wonder if when they signed the deal they knew that soon their brand would be associated with a manager who is under investigation for defrauding his previous sponsors and investors?

Is it in any sponsors "Best interests" to be associated with Brunyeel?

 

[mewmewmew13]

I am quite astounded at the thought of Bruyneel still being a marketable entity.
He is long past his expiration date and potential legal troubles notwithstanding he seems to have a less than stellar reputation these days. Why any large sponsor would sully their product/ service when there must be alternatives... what am I missing here??

 

[Beech Mtn]

I'm looking forward to next year's Fabian TdF tweets about helping Chef Duffy cook dinner in the fancy kitchen/dining truck.

 

[Polish]

I am quite astounded at the thought of Bruyneel still being a marketable entity.
He is long past his expiration date and potential legal troubles notwithstanding he seems to have a less than stellar reputation these days. Why any large sponsor would sully their product/ service when there must be alternatives... what am I missing here??

Your view of Bruyneel is out of step with the "real world".

Reality = Tactical/Strategic DS Genius
More TdF wins, More GT wins.
Why is Alberto giving up on ever winning a Tour?

Reality = $$Marketing Genius$$.
Ask USPostal/DiscoveryChannel/Astana/AMD/Nissan/Radioshack/Trek/etc
We might as well win some more sponsorship money...

Reality = More Twitter Followers than any other DS.
Professional Grade.

C'mon - name 10 DS's that are more marketable than Bruyneel?
Can't even name one can you?

 

[Christian]

Just some quick input on two things:

I am quite sure to have read somewhere than Bruyneel said his team would "continue under the same name until at least 2013" but I can't find the article, it might have been a print edition. This would imply that Radioshack will stay the main sponsor (some people have been wondering about that).

Regarding the Mercedes/Nissan question, there is a small detail that is maybe worth noting: LEOPARD TREK is not directly sponsored by Mercedes, but by Mercedes Luxembourg, even though this is not specified on the team apparel or the bikes. I don't know if this has any relevance or how it compares to Nissan's sponsorship of Radioshack, but I thought it might be worth clarifying.