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jmdirt said:You guys kill me!
Its the best GdI since last year.
Best GdI since 13
Not as good as 14
The second week is better than 56
Quite a few routes have received a lot of praise.tobydawq said:jmdirt said:You guys kill me!
Its the best GdI since last year.
Best GdI since 13
Not as good as 14
The second week is better than 56
This is the most ridiculous period of the year on here. Nothing is ever good enough.
Red Rick said:Quite a few routes have received a lot of praise.tobydawq said:jmdirt said:You guys kill me!
Its the best GdI since last year.
Best GdI since 13
Not as good as 14
The second week is better than 56
This is the most ridiculous period of the year on here. Nothing is ever good enough.
This Giro has an absolutely great middle section, but the first 8 stages and thet last 5 stages just doesn't do it for me. Especially the end of the Giro is pretty disappointing for me cause either something absolutely crazy happens on Passo Manghen or the Giro fizzles out like a wet candle.
Seriously apart from Passo Manghen all the hard climbs are concentrated in 4 consecutive days.
Reminds me of what Libertine says of the 2011 Tour, which was the greatest Dauphine ever.
That is the Giro showing they even do flat stages better than the Tourtobydawq said:Red Rick said:Quite a few routes have received a lot of praise.tobydawq said:jmdirt said:You guys kill me!
Its the best GdI since last year.
Best GdI since 13
Not as good as 14
The second week is better than 56
This is the most ridiculous period of the year on here. Nothing is ever good enough.
This Giro has an absolutely great middle section, but the first 8 stages and thet last 5 stages just doesn't do it for me. Especially the end of the Giro is pretty disappointing for me cause either something absolutely crazy happens on Passo Manghen or the Giro fizzles out like a wet candle.
Seriously apart from Passo Manghen all the hard climbs are concentrated in 4 consecutive days.
Reminds me of what Libertine says of the 2011 Tour, which was the greatest Dauphine ever.
In addition, stage 10 and 11 are a bit hilarious. What, is there around 250 altitude metres in those two stages combined?
Cance > TheRest said:.
I don't really have a clue how the racing is going to be. I think that cycling fans, in general, have a tendency to overestimate the impact of route designs on how races unfold. Rather, I think the causality is often opposite. Fans praise the route after the race is held, because they don't always hit accurately with their predictions. So the strong correlation between good routes and good races is not univocal. Although there are trends, ofcourse.
OlavEH said:Cance > TheRest said:.
I don't really have a clue how the racing is going to be. I think that cycling fans, in general, have a tendency to overestimate the impact of route designs on how races unfold. Rather, I think the causality is often opposite. Fans praise the route after the race is held, because they don't always hit accurately with their predictions. So the strong correlation between good routes and good races is not univocal. Although there are trends, ofcourse.
Well, you could compare the action on stages including climbs like Mortirolo, Finestre and similar to stages where there is 30 kms of flat before the last tough MTF.......
A stage like this year's Sappada stage were pointed out as good stage design immidiately after the presentation last year. And that stage certainly delivered!
If that route is a 9, the scale should go far higher than 10.
tobydawq said:People also raged about the waste of the Finestre, as it should never be so early in a stage. But I think that stage delivered a little bit more than the Sappada stage.
Regarding your last point: People have a tendency to use some sort of weird logarithmic stage where every tiny little thorn in their eyes costs a point, quickly reducing the grade to 1-3, which frankly is ridiculous, when 1 should be for the worst route imaginable (21 flat stages, no TT, a confirmation by the organisers that stages will be cancelled in the event of wind).
OlavEH said:tobydawq said:People also raged about the waste of the Finestre, as it should never be so early in a stage. But I think that stage delivered a little bit more than the Sappada stage.
Still, the Sappada stage was one of the better mountain stages the last years. It's not much likely we'll see action more than the last few kms on the Lago di Serru stage and the Anterselva stage. Probably not on the Croce di Aune stage either. And we're still missing a Apenninne mountain stage.
tobydawq said:You could also say that it was good because Yates was still in insane form and Froome had a bad day. If they had been more normal, the stage would not have been good, and then retrospectively the route would maybe have been proven to not be as well-designed as people had thought.
Sometimes, people forget that what we see play out may be an outlier - it's just a bit difficult to know what the norm is for every single stage as it is only ridden once.
Sorry, what is your complaint regarding this year and the reference to Montalcino 2010? I don't quite see?OlavEH said:tobydawq said:You could also say that it was good because Yates was still in insane form and Froome had a bad day. If they had been more normal, the stage would not have been good, and then retrospectively the route would maybe have been proven to not be as well-designed as people had thought.
Sometimes, people forget that what we see play out may be an outlier - it's just a bit difficult to know what the norm is for every single stage as it is only ridden once.
Still, the stage delivered. If you have stages with one single big climb as a MTF and where the steepest sections are on the last few kms, or long sections of flat terrain between the second last and the last climb, you'll almost never have any action before that.
A rating of 9 or 10 should be reserved for almost perfectly designed routes. IMO that means a balanced route of ITT and mountain stages, few flat stages, at least 5 high mountain stages spread throughout the tour and a couple of tough medium mountain stages in addition. This route doesn't deliver of any of this points, except for the two stages to Coeurmayeur and Ponte di Legno.
It's not a coincidence that some of the highest rated stages in the Giro the last 10-15 years are stages including Mortirolo, Finestre, Montelcino in 2010 or the Gardaneccia stage in 2011.
Cance > TheRest said:Sorry, what is your complaint regarding this year and the reference to Montalcino 2010? I don't quite see?