Giro d'Italia Rate the 2023 Giro d'Italia Route

[topcat]

I thought this part of the discussion was about how relevant (good) the route is for us viewers. Since we’re the important ones to consider

The route is relevant to the viewers and what-iffery. The ambush, the team move, the attack on the descent, Nibali pulling a Nibali, etc. happens all the time in the imagination but rarely on the road.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

The penultimate stage is an absolute leg-breaker that could decide the winner (if top guys can't be separated in the mountains and earlier TTs). Expect a VAM record if someone is in superb form at the end of the race (like Pog in PDBF).

 

[Cookster15]

The penultimate stage is an absolute leg-breaker that could decide the winner (if top guys can't be separated in the mountains and earlier TTs). Expect a VAM record if someone is in superb form at the end of the race (like Pog in PDBF).

Stage 19?
Stage 19 of the Giro d’Italia 2023: Longarone, Tre Cime di Lavaredo (Rif. Auronzo) (giroditalia.it)

What are the stats on the final climb that might entice a VAM record?

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Stage 19?
Stage 19 of the Giro d’Italia 2023: Longarone, Tre Cime di Lavaredo (Rif. Auronzo) (giroditalia.it)

What are the stats on the final climb that might entice a VAM record?

Obviously I meant stage 20. Mountain time trial on leg-breaking gradients. Perfect for amazing vertical speed.

 

[QueenStagiaire]

Stage 19?
Stage 19 of the Giro d’Italia 2023: Longarone, Tre Cime di Lavaredo (Rif. Auronzo) (giroditalia.it)

What are the stats on the final climb that might entice a VAM record?

He clearly means Stage 20 (‚earlier TTs‘, ‚Pog in PDBF‘).
Edit: damn, too slow.

 

[Cookster15]

He clearly means Stage 20 (‚earlier TTs‘, ‚Pog in PDBF‘).
Edit: damn, too slow.

Ah yes, sorry I missed that it was a MTT. Still waking up here

 

[Cookster15]

Obviously I meant stage 20. Mountain time trial on leg-breaking gradients. Perfect for amazing vertical speed.

Yeh, I didn't see it was a MTT. Agreed.

 

[OlavEH]

You don't think Stage 13 is the toughest mountain stage of the Giro?
I don't dislike this route. The problem that I usually have with the Giro is that the organizers back load the mountain stages. The ones in the first 2 weeks are a bit lazy like someone said here.

It's pretty even between 13, 17 and 19. But ususally Giau will result in a very reduced peloton and Tre Cime will create big gaps. Not sure if that will happen this time.

 

[Escarabajo]

Objectively I think 19 is harder. More altitude gain. Less descending. Less overall, basically no flat in the last 120km, with the stage going over 2000m 3 times and never going back to under 1000m for the final 120km or so.

Stage 13 has the two bigger climbs, but in terms of how it will be raced I think it's likely Grand Saint-Bernard will be done very slowly and action on Croix de Coeur is not super guaranteed.

I think you are right, it is the altitude. I just checked and they don't go below 1200 m in the last 110 Km. Auch!

 

[Nick2413]

So 7.1k at 12.3% with the first 4.7k at 15%. Steep climbs like this seem to be a little different than the typical 7-8%ers, is there any reason Roglic or Remco could be better suited for it other than who is just climbing better at that point?

 

[Netserk]

So 7.1k at 12.3% with the first 4.7k at 15%. Steep climbs like this seem to be a little different than the typical 7-8%ers, is there any reason Roglic or Remco could be better suited for it other than who is just climbing better at that point?

Not really, no. It's like a nearly twice as long Les Praeres.

 

[Red Rick]

I think it's very much just about who's better, fresher, recovering better at this point. If they're dead even I'd give Evenepoel the nod in the false flat section

 

[Krzysztof_O]

So 7.1k at 12.3% with the first 4.7k at 15%. Steep climbs like this seem to be a little different than the typical 7-8%ers, is there any reason Roglic or Remco could be better suited for it other than who is just climbing better at that point?

That's the point. Here their climbing skills will be brutally tested. Even is one is able to stay on the other's wheel during normal climbs here there will be no hiding and any differences will be shown. As for the first section, they will likely do it below their normal level to save everything for the climb.

 

[Red Rick]

That's the point. Here their climbing skills will be brutally tested. Even is one is able to stay on the other's wheel during normal climbs here there will be no hiding and any differences will be shown. As for the first section, they will likely do it below their normal level to save everything for the climb.

If they're always super close in the mountain stages they're simply gonna be super close in climbing level. The big stages are so hard that drafting isn't gonna save you minutes, it might make teh difference of dropping slightly earlier or later or winning in the final km.

Actually I think the big difference between Monte Lussari and a normal huge mountain stage isn't that it's all about W/kg, but that the huge mountain stages are heavily about fatigue resistance while for that final ITT you actually need that fresh like 40 minutes watts bazooka.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

If they're always super close in the mountain stages they're simply gonna be super close in climbing level. The big stages are so hard that drafting isn't gonna save you minutes, it might make teh difference of dropping slightly earlier or later or winning in the final km.

Actually I think the big difference between Monte Lussari and a normal huge mountain stage isn't that it's all about W/kg, but that the huge mountain stages are heavily about fatigue resistance while for that final ITT you actually need that fresh like 40 minutes watts bazooka.

You need to have that bazooka after 3 weeks, which emphasize your endurance as well. As for drafting or not even 20 seconds of difference between closely matched opponents on such a MTT can be important.

 

[Unterlenkerfahrend]

When was the last time we had about 2h of ITT in a GT?

 

[Netserk]

When was the last time we had about 2h of ITT in a GT?

2014.

 

[OlavEH]

That's a fair point. The Bondone stage is a bit of a missed opportunity, like @Netserk said.
The other thing that I'd change is the stage 20 ITT, make it a Tarvis-Sella Nevea ITT and is much better. Similar length, but no over the top steep gradients, nothing that would potentially hinder the action on the Tre Cime stage.

I would actually like a Fae-Bordala combo with a descent finish to Rovereto. This could be preceeded by Bondone (and more climbs).

I like the Tre Cime stage, but not the day before the Lussari MTT. I also like the Bondone stage as Bondone are one of the best big MTFs, and at least one of these should be used in each Giro. I'm not that eager about the Crans Montana stage. Couer is good, but it is followed by 25 km flat and then a fairly easy ascent to Crans.

My main issue is as mentioned the lack of stages which ensues more long range attack. The classic Finestre/Sestriere or Mortirolo/Aprica combos hasn't been used since 2015. Other climbs that could have been used is Stelvio, Gavia, Fedaia, San Carlo, San Pellegrino in Alpe and more.

The other is the lack of other good hilly/medium mountain stages. Lago di Laceno is pretty underwhelming. I'm not very enthusiastic about the Bergamo stage either. Only the Fossambrone stage seems somewhat good.

 

[Netserk]

I think the Bergamo stage is quite good, certainly better than what I expected beforehand. Maybe the best Giro di Lombardia stage in the Giro in my time. And perfectly placed (well, almost. You could make the perfect final mountain stage in that area).

 

[Mayomaniac]

I think the Bergamo stage is quite good, certainly better than what I expected beforehand. Maybe the best Giro di Lombardia stage in the Giro in my time. And perfectly placed (well, almost. You could make the perfect final mountain stage in that area).

Now the only need to put up barriers to force the riders to ride on the "cobbles" (the Italian word for pavement made with round rocks would be ciottolato) on the climb up to Bergamo Alta...

 

[OlavEH]

I think the Bergamo stage is quite good, certainly better than what I expected beforehand. Maybe the best Giro di Lombardia stage in the Giro in my time. And perfectly placed (well, almost. You could make the perfect final mountain stage in that area).

It's an okay breakway stage, but no more than that. I don't see why they do need to loop back and forth the way they do. Ride east and trail back via Gallo, Ganda, Miragolo, etc.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

In terms of GC action, which stages are most likely to motivate the GC riders, unpredictable weather conditions aside?

1, 4, 7, 8, 9, 13, 16, 18, 19, 20?

And what would be the likelihood of those stages actually being used for GC action?

01 - * * * * * (TT)
04 - * * *
07 - * *
08 - * *
09 - * * * * * (TT)
13 - * * * *
16 - * * * *
18 - * * *
19 - * * * *
20 - * * * * * (TT)

I'm not the best reader of profiles, so that's why i ask.

 

[Escarabajo]

In terms of GC action, which stages are most likely to motivate the GC riders, unpredictable weather conditions aside?

1, 4, 7, 8, 9, 13, 16, 18, 19, 20?

And what would be the likelihood of those stages actually being used for GC action?

01 - * * * * * (TT)
04 - * * *
07 - * *
08 - * *
09 - * * * * * (TT)
13 - * * * *
16 - * * * *
18 - * * *
19 - * * * *
20 - * * * * * (TT)

I'm not the best reader of profiles, so that's why i ask.

Logic, you put in your statement what would motivate the GC riders. In that perspective you have to put 13, 16 and 19 with 5 asterisks. No way that the GC riders won't be laser focus and a bit scare about going into those 3 stages. The Tour do not have stages like 13 and 19 and Remco have never ridden stages like these ones. The last time he had a chance the route was changed.

 

[BigCoward]

When was the last time we had about 2h of ITT in a GT?

When was the last time landa did a 30km+ TT?

 

[gregrowlerson]

When was the last time landa did a 30km+ TT?

2016 Giro when he rode a decent one for Sky, and then abandoned?