Rate the team performance in the Giro

[dick the quick]

My quick thoughts on the team performance in the Giro are below – please share yours.

Obvious winners:

1. Sky
It was a clear veni, vidi, vici for Froome and the whole team. Even if struggling a little bit earlier in the race, Froome managed to get 2 iconic stage wins: the first on a legendary climb and the second in the manner that will be remembered for years, overall seeming to be a deserved winner of maglia rosa (and maglia azzura, if he ever noticed). The pre-race team objectives have been 100%+ achieved.

2. Mitchelton
Maybe a little bit odd to name them as the “winners” in view of what happened to Chaves on Gualdo Tadion stage and, even more, to Yates on Finestre/Jafferau stage. But when you look at this from another viewing angle – you see this: an unexpected maglia rosa for two weeks and 3 stage wins for Yates, Chaves winning Etna stage and then finally Cervinia stage win for Nieve as a consolation prize for the team and a nice anniversary gift for himself.

3. Bora
3 stage wins of Bennett (including Rome final stage) and two top 10 final GC placings (Konrad + Formolo).

4. Quickstep
Viviani winning 4 stages and maglia ciclamino + Schachmann on Prato Nevoso. They could barely do any better.

Not to good, not too bad:

1. Sunweb
Normally they would clearly qualify as one of the winners, with Tom D. finishing on the podium, winning the opening ITT and wearing pink jersey for a day + Oomen in the top 10 of the final GC. But if you start the race with a major goal to defend the last year’s pink jersey, and you finish second – that changes much.

2. Astana
Superman Lopez on the podium and winning maglia bianca, even if riding in a rather uninspiring and defensive manner. Bilbao in the top 10 of final GC. No stage win.

3. Movistar
Carapaz first on Montevergine stage and finishing just behind the GC podium.

4. BMC
Dennis wearing pink for a couple of days and then winning an ITT.

5. Bahrain
Mohoric stage win + Pozzo looking nicely in the mountains (until he cracked, but still managed to finish fifth in the GC).

6. LottoNL-Jumbo
Battaglin stage win + Bennett in the top 10 final GC. Not too much to say about others.

7. Lotto-Soudal
Wellens with a stage win in Caltagirone. The rest is silence.

Those who have done nothing, as expected:
Androni, Bardiani, Israel Cycling, Willier

Those who have done nothing, although were expected to do something:

1. EF-Cannondale (expected more from Woods, Carthy and Modolo)
2. Trek
3. Dimension Data (well, O’Connor looked very well until he crashed. But Meintjes…)
4. Ag2R
5. Katusha

Those who want to forget:

1. UAE
Aru.

2. Groupama-FdJ
Pinot.

 

[Breh]

What did you expect from AG2R and Katusha? They both sent a B-squad.

Astana and Movistar had a pretty good Giro imo. Carapaz finishes 4th in his first GT with GC aspirations which is quite a surprise.
Lopez has his first GT podium and Bilbao suddenly emerged as a decent GC rider.

 

[Stella0596]

I would rank Trek lowest too. Brambilla was very good at QS but delivered absolutely nothing, and each time Pedersen was seen I felt bad for him. Pantano also very big disappointment.

 

[Squire]

Pretty much agree with the OP. But FDJ had a very good race for 19 stages. Pinot was supported well and had a podium spot, as was the goal. They obviously come away with nothing, but if you have Mitchelton-Scott as a winner, FDJ shouldn't be ranked among the biggest losers.

 

[staubsauger]

AG2R actually did pretty fine considering which line-up they send to the Giro. Their only mistake was to neither get Cherel, nor Denz, Montaguti or Jaregui into the Prato Nevoso breakaway as those guys actually could've challenged Schachmann for the win.

If Androni Giocattoli did nothing as expected you must've watched another race than I did. Because I saw Ballerini winning the former intergiro classification and strong breakaway attempts from Masnada & Vendrame who in fact asked a bigger check to get reeled in than intended by the peloton.

Yellowfluo in contrary really shouldn't be invited to a race like the Giro d'Italia. They had one job and that was to properly place Mareczko in the sprint finishes, so he could challenge Viviani with his speed. They tremendously failed.

 

[RedheadDane]

Re:

I would rank Trek lowest too. Brambilla was very good at QS but delivered absolutely nothing, and each time Pedersen was seen I felt bad for him. Pantano also very big disappointment.

I was just rather amused by his tendency to be very active in the beginning of several stages, only to rather quickly end up at the back of the bunch. :lol:
On at least one occasion he did that after stating that he hoped for an easy day...

 

[HelloDolly]

Who are the managment at UAE ?

What have they been doing ??

What the hell is going there ??

 

[Gigs_98]

If really wouldn't complain if this UAE debacle continues. Money wise they could become a 2nd sky and no thanks, one is enough

 

[ppanther92]

Re:

Pretty much agree with the OP. But FDJ had a very good race for 19 stages. Pinot was supported well and had a podium spot, as was the goal. They obviously come away with nothing, but if you have Mitchelton-Scott as a winner, FDJ shouldn't be ranked among the biggest losers.

FDJ really shouldn't be amongst the biggest dissapointments. Maybe the biggest losers in the end, but the team performance was not bad at all. Pinot on the Podium, Reichenbach top 15, Preidler top 20. Of course, they lost all on the second last stage. But the support for Pinot was very good and he also delivered kind off till that point.

 

[tobydawq]

Re:

AG2R actually did pretty fine considering which line-up they send to the Giro. Their only mistake was to neither get Cherel, nor Denz, Montaguti or Jaregui into the Prato Nevoso breakaway as those guys actually could've challenged Schachmann for the win.

If Androni Giocattoli did nothing as expected you must've watched another race than I did. Because I saw Ballerini winning the former intergiro classification and strong breakaway attempts from Masnada & Vendrame who in fact asked a bigger check to get reeled in than intended by the peloton.

Yellowfluo in contrary really shouldn't be invited to a race like the Giro d'Italia. They had one job and that was to properly place Mareczko in the sprint finishes, so he could challenge Viviani with his speed. They tremendously failed.

I very much agree with you regarding Androni.

I thought they were impressive given their status and in fact, all eight riders were in breakaways at some point during the race and all eight seemed to be in good condition. Something which could definitely not be said for the other wildcards.

By the way: Giuseppe Fonzi of Wilier has shown tremendous consistency the last two years. Last year, he was last in GC with a deficit of 5 hours, 48 minutes and 40 seconds. This year, he was last with a deficit og 5 hours, 48 minutes and 37 seconds.

So a 3 second improvement. If he continues like this, he will win the race in the year 8991.

 

[deValtos]

Re:

AG2R actually did pretty fine considering which line-up they send to the Giro. Their only mistake was to neither get Cherel, nor Denz, Montaguti or Jaregui into the Prato Nevoso breakaway as those guys actually could've challenged Schachmann for the win.

To a certain extent it's fine to judge a team based on their line-up sent. e.g Sky/QS/Mitchelton getting only 1 stage win would be a disappointment for those teams.

However I think there's a minimum level of expectation of any world tour team at a GT. Even if you're sending the C squad if you don't pick up any of i) a stage win ii) top 10 overall iii) mountains/sprint/young riders jersey it's got to be called a disappointment.

Only a continental team can be vaguely satisfied without any of the above as long as they get breakaway exposure, combativity awards etc

 

[roundabout]

Shouldn't "C" squad by definition mean third best GC rider/sprinter/stage hunter of the team?

I would say meeting any of the goals you mention would then be a success, since one probably has in theory a rider who should not even be close to 10 best GC riders at the start.

 

[Brullnux]

Re: Re:

AG2R actually did pretty fine considering which line-up they send to the Giro. Their only mistake was to neither get Cherel, nor Denz, Montaguti or Jaregui into the Prato Nevoso breakaway as those guys actually could've challenged Schachmann for the win.

If Androni Giocattoli did nothing as expected you must've watched another race than I did. Because I saw Ballerini winning the former intergiro classification and strong breakaway attempts from Masnada & Vendrame who in fact asked a bigger check to get reeled in than intended by the peloton.

Yellowfluo in contrary really shouldn't be invited to a race like the Giro d'Italia. They had one job and that was to properly place Mareczko in the sprint finishes, so he could challenge Viviani with his speed. They tremendously failed.

I very much agree with you regarding Androni.

I though they were impressive given their status and in fact, all eight riders were in breakaways at some point during the race and all eight seemed to be in good condition. Something which could definitely not be said for the other wildcards.

By the way: Giuseppe Fonzi of Wilier has shown tremendous consistency the last two years. Last year, he was last in GC with a deficit of 5 hours, 48 minutes and 40 seconds. This year, he was last with a deficit og 5 hours, 48 minutes and 37 seconds.

So a 3 second improvement. If he continues like this, he will win the race in the year 8991.

Bardiani were ok imo. Ciccone almost won KOM and at times was at the the thick end of it while in the bunch (Gran Sasso, Zoncolan for a bit). Barbin was also always in the break, but admittedly that was about it. They did win the fairplay award though. Wilier had Zhupa and Mosca in the break a lot, and Israel had Plaza and Boivin who were really active. But yeah, Androni by far and the way the best, although no pro-conti teams won a stage this year, and technically it was actually Wilier who came closest.

 

[tobydawq]

Re: Re:

AG2R actually did pretty fine considering which line-up they send to the Giro. Their only mistake was to neither get Cherel, nor Denz, Montaguti or Jaregui into the Prato Nevoso breakaway as those guys actually could've challenged Schachmann for the win.

If Androni Giocattoli did nothing as expected you must've watched another race than I did. Because I saw Ballerini winning the former intergiro classification and strong breakaway attempts from Masnada & Vendrame who in fact asked a bigger check to get reeled in than intended by the peloton.

Yellowfluo in contrary really shouldn't be invited to a race like the Giro d'Italia. They had one job and that was to properly place Mareczko in the sprint finishes, so he could challenge Viviani with his speed. They tremendously failed.

I very much agree with you regarding Androni.

I though they were impressive given their status and in fact, all eight riders were in breakaways at some point during the race and all eight seemed to be in good condition. Something which could definitely not be said for the other wildcards.

By the way: Giuseppe Fonzi of Wilier has shown tremendous consistency the last two years. Last year, he was last in GC with a deficit of 5 hours, 48 minutes and 40 seconds. This year, he was last with a deficit og 5 hours, 48 minutes and 37 seconds.

So a 3 second improvement. If he continues like this, he will win the race in the year 8991.

Bardiani were ok imo. Ciccone almost won KOM and at times was at the the thick end of it while in the bunch (Gran Sasso, Zoncolan for a bit). Barbin was also always in the break, but admittedly that was about it. They did win the fairplay award though. Wilier had Zhupa and Mosca in the break a lot, and Israel had Plaza and Boivin who were really active. But yeah, Androni by far and the way the best, although no pro-conti teams won a stage this year, and technically it was actually Wilier who came closest.

That's true but after the Israeli stages, they were an embarrassment. Of course it didn't help that Zardini broke his collarbane as he was the only one who could have hopes of being competitive outside of flatland.

And Ciccone was good for Bardiani, I agree. Perhaps the best continental rider, but he was quite the one man army.

I also think Neilands deserves a mention - he rode quite well too.

Regarding AG2R, I thought they did well. I was especially impressed by Nico Denz - not a rider I had paid much attention to beforehand. Chérel also had a couple of nice showings.

 

[Koronin]

I'm sure what else Movistar could have expected from this Giro. They sent a team with their 6th best GC rider to the Giro and came very close to the podium. The team they sent isn't even close to a top team for supporting a GC attempt.

 

[dick the quick]

Re: Re:

AG2R actually did pretty fine considering which line-up they send to the Giro. Their only mistake was to neither get Cherel, nor Denz, Montaguti or Jaregui into the Prato Nevoso breakaway as those guys actually could've challenged Schachmann for the win.

To a certain extent it's fine to judge a team based on their line-up sent. e.g Sky/QS/Mitchelton getting only 1 stage win would be a disappointment for those teams.

However I think there's a minimum level of expectation of any world tour team at a GT. Even if you're sending the C squad if you don't pick up any of i) a stage win ii) top 10 overall iii) mountains/sprint/young riders jersey it's got to be called a disappointment.

Only a continental team can be vaguely satisfied without any of the above as long as they get breakaway exposure, combativity awards etc

Pretty much this.

Just a quick explanation regarding my OP: my intention was to rate the team performance based on measurable basis, using basic/most common standardized parameters: GC win - GC podium - GC top 10 placings - stage wins - winning a points/KoM/young classification jersey - wearing the GC leader jersey during the race. So it is more about final result that counts than the “artistic impression” (using figure skating terms).

As a result, some decent performances shown during the race (like: breakaways, traguarda volante/ combattivita generale/fuga generale classifications etc.) are not taken into account – even if I appreciate very much all the related effort of the riders. But going this way, we would have to claim each team participating in the race as “successful” just because they have won a bunch of intermediate sprints, GPMs of 3rd or 4thcategory, some special bonuses, or they have just been in every single breakaway of the race. We would all agree that nothing of the above falls in memory for a longer period of time.

This explains also why I feel that Groupama-FdJ wishes to forget this edition of Giro (which does not mean that they were “the worst”, of course). They were (fully deserved) on the GC podium until the penultimate stage comes, and then they lost everything (in terms of final result achieved). No stage wins before to keep, no leaders jersey to remember. That’s the main difference between them and Mitchelton, who already had a great track record of earlier stage wins and wearing the pink jersey.

 

[Leinster]

Those who have done nothing, although were expected to do something:

1. EF-Cannondale (expected more from Woods, Carthy and Modolo)
2. Trek
3. Dimension Data (well, O’Connor looked very well until he crashed. But Meintjes…)
4. Ag2R
5. Katusha

Those who want to forget:

2. Groupama-FdJ
Pinot.

Pinot may want to forget how his Giro finished, but until I read this post I'd already forgotten that EF, Trek, DD, AG2R or Katusha were even at the race.

If really wouldn't complain if this UAE debacle continues. Money wise they could become a 2nd sky and no thanks, one is enough

I can't disagree with this. At least Sky married the big investment with technical and tactical know-how, and improved training methods, sports science, etc. At this point, it looks like UAE thought putting some big name riders on some fancy Italian bikes would guarantee a bunch of wins, and so far it's turned up nothing.

 

[Red Rick]

Re: Re:

AG2R actually did pretty fine considering which line-up they send to the Giro. Their only mistake was to neither get Cherel, nor Denz, Montaguti or Jaregui into the Prato Nevoso breakaway as those guys actually could've challenged Schachmann for the win.

If Androni Giocattoli did nothing as expected you must've watched another race than I did. Because I saw Ballerini winning the former intergiro classification and strong breakaway attempts from Masnada & Vendrame who in fact asked a bigger check to get reeled in than intended by the peloton.

Yellowfluo in contrary really shouldn't be invited to a race like the Giro d'Italia. They had one job and that was to properly place Mareczko in the sprint finishes, so he could challenge Viviani with his speed. They tremendously failed.

I very much agree with you regarding Androni.

I thought they were impressive given their status and in fact, all eight riders were in breakaways at some point during the race and all eight seemed to be in good condition. Something which could definitely not be said for the other wildcards.

By the way: Giuseppe Fonzi of Wilier has shown tremendous consistency the last two years. Last year, he was last in GC with a deficit of 5 hours, 48 minutes and 40 seconds. This year, he was last with a deficit og 5 hours, 48 minutes and 37 seconds.

So a 3 second improvement. If he continues like this, he will win the race in the year 8991.

Well, at least our descendants will be able to say it didn't come out of nowhere

 

[EroicaStradeBianche]

Androni

2.stage: Belletti 8th
3.stage :Belletti 7th
5.stage: Gavazzi 7th
10.stage: Gavazzi 7th, Ballerini 5th
12.stage: Belletti 7th
13.stage: Belletti 7th
17.stage: Vendrame 9th
18.stage: Cattaneo 3rd, Ballerini 10th
21.stage: Belletti 5th

On the attack every day, won the combativity, break and intergiro classifications, 12th on the team classification. Much stronger than some WT at this Giro. Considering that they are one of the teams with the smallest budget.

Bardiani was only Ciccone, Wilier classic failure but they will be always invited. Israel brought the first two of the GC at the start so wasn't bad.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Willer didn't have Pozzato starting either, but that doesn't excuse their truly horrible performance either. I haven't paid that much attention to the breaks on the easier days, but they have just been non existent throughout the race I feel. Would really like to see them exclude next year.

Isreal was pretty disappointing. Plaza is too old, Hermans could definitely have done better, the youngster from Latvia did what was expected. Sbaragli is not a good sprinter either really. But I guess its a decent enough team to get a wildcard when starting in Isreal.

Bardiani should get an invite just for Ciccone and Androni obviously BY FAR the best team. If only every wild card team approached the race like them. I simply cannot understand why they werent invited last year! Next year with the young climbers will be even more interesting. Imagine 2018 Bernal on this Giro squad... if Carapaz could 4th.

 

[tobydawq]

Re:

Willer didn't have Pozzato starting either, but that doesn't excuse their truly horrible performance either. I haven't paid that much attention to the breaks on the easier days, but they have just been non existent throughout the race I feel. Would really like to see them exclude next year.

Isreal was pretty disappointing. Plaza is too old, Hermans could definitely have done better, the youngster from Latvia did what was expected. Sbaragli is not a good sprinter either really. But I guess its a decent enough team to get a wildcard when starting in Isreal.

Bardiani should get an invite just for Ciccone and Androni obviously BY FAR the best team. If only every wild card team approached the race like them. I simply cannot understand why they werent invited last year! Next year with the young climbers will be even more interesting. Imagine 2018 Bernal on this Giro squad... if Carapaz could 4th.

I think a good encapsulation of their race was Emil Axelgaard's comment during the Feltet.dk/live on one of the stages:

"Back in the second group, Wilier are also taking turns. They have no chance of winning but they don't do that on other stages either, and they have to spend their time doing something."

 

[Breh]

Ben Hermans was sick during the Giro.

 

[movingtarget]

Quickstep and Sky were the best. Michelton maybe tactically lose a little but it depended so much on Yates performance. The rest of the team were very good bar Chaves getting sick but at least he kept riding and they managed it. Michelton still had a great race for time in pink and stage wins.

 

[Tonton]

By far, MS won this, bunch of stages, 3 days short of winning it all. Simon Yates was the star of this Giro.

Sky could lose everything in the weeks to come.

Astana? Meh...

FDJ? Two climbs away from the objective, nothing to show for, but a big display of Men, united, when one carries the cross. That was the lesson in Jerusalem a long time ago. OK, I wrote it. Tibopino is the cycling Jesus-Christ, who came to Earth to save us all....

 

[Leinster]

Not to good, not too bad:

1. Sunweb
Normally they would clearly qualify as one of the winners, with Tom D. finishing on the podium, winning the opening ITT and wearing pink jersey for a day + Oomen in the top 10 of the final GC. But if you start the race with a major goal to defend the last year’s pink jersey, and you finish second – that changes much.

Oomen's final placing completely passed me by until now. So I checked and found out he was in the Pozzovivo group on the Jafferau. Why on earth wasn't he working his tail off to close the gap between Pozzo and the Dumoulin group? That might have given Lopez and Carapaz a bit of motivation to chip in, surely? Unless he actually was working with Pozzovivo and I just didn't see that.