regular hard rides

[cromagnon]

Have been doing 2 100+km rides with 2-3000 m of climbing at a fast pace over the summer with the odd ride in-between here and there.

I am conscious that for a cyclist I could shed quite a bit of bodyfat, maybe 7lbs mostly on the waist, the upper pectoral region are places where I can "pinch an inch". I also have a far more muscular upper body that anyone I ride with and even though I never lift weights I benched 220lbs for 4 reps (while drunk at my brothers' BBQ in July, things got competitive).

As you can guess I occasionally drink (actually I rarely drink then have a blowout once every few months), eating is ok but my work can be stressful and sticking to a strict diet seems to magnify the stress.

Now I have some free time over the next two weeks and I want to put them to good use. So what to do on the turbo in-between my 2 rides? Intervals? 3/4 hours light spinning? I would like to attack this fat in particular.

I've read "do intervals and you get natural HGH release and that reduces bodyfat" and I've read the "do several hours cardio in the morning fasted with a green tea supplement".

Can I handle both? Fasted 1 hr around 220 watts, 3 x 3 min intervals (at whatever I can handle) then 2 hours at whatever I can handle 200-ish maybe with such a big calorie deficit. I don't mind getting dropped on the rides the next two weeks due to this, am looking at the bigger picture. I also don't care about losing muscle mass on the upper body, being really light would be great I don't care about looks.

Advice (and reasoning behind it) most welcome.

 

[JayKosta]

For weight lose, this is what I'd do.

1) Ride for slightly longer distance at a moderate speed.
The current 'conventional wisdom' is that the greatest % of fat gets used for fuel when the exertion level is fairly low - called the 'fat burning zone'.
The thought behind this is that at low exertion, your body CAN (and does) get enough fuel to meet the need by burning fat.
At higher exertion levels, your body needs to have a steady ongoing supply of carbs supplied as food to meet the higher energy demands - and a lower % of fat is burned.
At a slower pace, you can probably get by with less carbs while riding and afterwards - burn body fat instead.
But do make sure to drink enough water and electrolytes.

2) Try to reduce your overall calorie intake - view periods of hunger as a sign that you are losing weight.
Try to reduce portion size slightly - eat until you've 'had enough', not till you are 'full'.

Jay Kosta
Endwell NY USA

 

[GreasyMonkey]

For weight lose, this is what I'd do.

1) Ride for slightly longer distance at a moderate speed.
The current 'conventional wisdom' is that the greatest % of fat gets used for fuel when the exertion level is fairly low - called the 'fat burning zone'.
The thought behind this is that at low exertion, your body CAN (and does) get enough fuel to meet the need by burning fat.
At higher exertion levels, your body needs to have a steady ongoing supply of carbs supplied as food to meet the higher energy demands - and a lower % of fat is burned.
At a slower pace, you can probably get by with less carbs while riding and afterwards - burn body fat instead.
But do make sure to drink enough water and electrolytes.

2) Try to reduce your overall calorie intake - view periods of hunger as a sign that you are losing weight.
Try to reduce portion size slightly - eat until you've 'had enough', not till you are 'full'.

Jay Kosta
Endwell NY USA

I will partially take issue with the "fat burning zone" concept - it is correct to say that the % of fat burnt in low intensity exercise (55-65% max HR), and that as the intensity increases, the fuel substrate will move toward glycogen and absorbed carbohydrates, HOWEVER, the total amount of fat burnt (assuming you do not "bonk" or go into glycogen deficit) will be more when exercising in the moderate to high-moderate ranges (65-80% max HR), with suitable carb supplementation and fluids.

By eating sufficient carbohydrates to maintain a reasonable level of glycogen in your muscles & liver, (at least, for myself) it reduces the desire to eat large amounts post-exercise. Caveat to this is that if you exercise "too hard" your body cannot absorb sufficient carbohydrates from the gut - so moderate level exercise is probably better for longer timed rides, 3-5 hour duration.

Item 2) from Jay is sensible & correct from my experience, and something that I have battled to achieve for a long time.....

 

[usedtobefast]

our fat burner rides used to be 5 hours plus. and yes they work at any pace. this is old school. and yes, higher exertion will yield more burning, but the 5 hours also gets you in very good bike riding shape at moderate pace too. you get stronger through more reps. an HRM or some kind of power reader will help
you gauge your effort. good luck.

 

[GreasyMonkey]

I will partially take issue with the "fat burning zone" concept - it is correct to say that the % of fat burnt in low intensity exercise (55-65% max HR), and that as the intensity increases, the fuel substrate will move toward glycogen and absorbed carbohydrates, HOWEVER, the total amount of fat burnt (assuming you do not "bonk" or go into glycogen deficit) will be more when exercising in the moderate to high-moderate ranges (65-80% max HR), with suitable carb supplementation and fluids.

Here is a graphical illustration, thanks to Ross Tucker & Jonathon Dugas at "The Science of Sport" http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_ua8ycqfc4...8sQ/s1600-h/Romijn+study+and+ex+intensity.gif

Complete article is at http://www.sportsscientists.com/2010/01/exercise-and-weight-loss-part-3-fat.html

 

[Martin318is]

The thing about the high intensity vs low intensity around fat burning is:

Yes, you do burn more total calories at a higher intensity and yes, although the fat% is lower, the total fat burned can actually be exactly the same (if the difference in the two intensities is high enough)

BUT!

I have always found that if I do high intensity rides for fat burning purposes, I ALWAYS end up taking in more total calories on that day and the days following than I do if I train at lower intensity.

I tend to think of this as lower intensity riding burns energy and brings training benefits while not scaring the body. The body is tired but not generating massive cravings compared to completely depleting glycogen stores and making your body panic to replace it.

Long lower intensity rides can be done again the next day and the day after that. All the while the energy is being burned and I am not eating buckets of ice cream - just because the voices in my head tell me to

 

[CoachFergie]

Just playing Devil's advocate here but I am the reverse.

After long rides I eat the house down.

After short intense sessions I get off energised, feeling strong and wanting to stick to the healthy eating regime.

Who is right?

Who is typical?

From my riders I think most are in the eat more after long low intensity rides camp.

 

[usedtobefast]

i think you still have to pay attention to the nutrition. quality calories, low in saturated fat. fast or slow, enjoy the ride.

 

[cromagnon]

Yeah I think I'll mix it up. I got the ammonia in the nose scent without much hunger. Goddamn weetabix can't beat it, I was overcomplicating stuff before.

No way I can ride Saturday though I'd bonk by the end of the road hahaha

 

[fatsprintking]

As my wife is a nutritionist I get hammered with this a fair bit. In the end the eqation is simple, burn more calories than you take in and you drop weight.

But it is not really that simple. Gradual weight loss will almost always be better than rapid or big chunk loss. The aim of 1 lb per week over a 8-10 week period is the go.

Having just dropped 13kg in a 5 month period, I can say that what works for me is mixing up my training. I do a fair bit on the trainer mixed in with longer easier rides. Ultimately I think you need to look at how you can overload and how you mix in recovery. I think 1 week in 4 as a recovery week is really important. Too many riders just do the same thing week in week out and then wonder why they dont see progress. Whether its weight loss or tt performance, you need to overload your body, but then give it time to recover. Making your program sustainable in the long term is the key and having a plan about what your goals actually are is really important.

Developing a clear program which looks at progressive overload mixed in with appropriate recovery will lead to you dropping weight pretty easily, but will also make you a better rider which is really what it should be about.

 

[marathon marke]

This how I usually find myself behaving too. BUT, I still find that most of my weight loss occurs when I'm on a regular, high-mileage schedule.

Just playing Devil's advocate here but I am the reverse.

After long rides I eat the house down.

After short intense sessions I get off energised, feeling strong and wanting to stick to the healthy eating regime.

Who is right?

Who is typical?

From my riders I think most are in the eat more after long low intensity rides camp.

 

[cromagnon]

Well this sucks, feeling the calorie deficit and reading pub-med studies into interval training I opted for intervals (natural HGH release etc).

However what i found today to my horror is my legs are totally trashed despite taking a day off yesterday. I literally feel like I rode 60 miles this morning or something. Pushing 200 watts my thighs felt "hollowed out" is the only way to describe it.

As far as I am concerned I will never cut out long low-intensity rides ever again. Let this be a lesson.

 

[JayKosta]

For me, at age 63, I know that I need more rest after a hard ride.
I've also found that using whey protein powder immediately after any exercise is a good recovery aid.
There's nothing magical about whey protein, it's just quick & convenient.
It helps me avoid delayed-onset-muscle-soreness (DOMS).

For building strength and speed, hills and intervals are probably great - but don't over do it.

Jay Kosta
Endwell NY USA

 

[cromagnon]

My bro is hardcore into weights and I see tubs of that stuff (amongst other things) in the kitchen. I always figured a few eggs before a long ride would do maybe it's time to join the dark side lol

 

[JayKosta]

From my internet research, it seems that muscles are most receptive to a dose of protein immediately AFTER exercise - about 20 gram serving of protein seems to be good. That way the protein goes to rebuild the muscle tissue that was stress during the exercise session.

I don't use higher higher amounts, and only use it once immediately after exercise - mixed with gatorade or a sweetened lemonade for carbs.
The liquid goes down easy and helps re-hydrate.

I buy the inexpensive whey protein sold at Walmart - vanilla flavor is my choice.

But any good source of protein should also work - I just like the convenience of whey, and it is not very expensive per serving.

Jay Kosta
Endwell NY USA

 

[Tapeworm]

Or instead of silly powders and potions one could just drink milk. Usually cheaper too. Coffee or Choc milk my favorite.