Remco Evenepoel

[MountainGoatW]

So tell me, what other rider has shown disastrous climbing form all season and then was the second-strongest climber in the Tour?
In modern cycling, that is quite unusual.

In any case, you can't claim that this is the norm, or fall back on that answer simply because you can't provide another example or argument.

Well Remco has shown before, that with a crash/accident free season/preparation he can be the third best climber behind the alien. Modern day speeds and no need to target a specific race is imho no proof for your point. For me it seems much more beliavable, that you still need to target your goals in an endurance! sport, than just being over the top for all season long. I don't know what they are using these days, but I am certain pog(and Vinge) have an advantage in the meds. Co2 breather was earlier one example, cause I don't remember others than UAE/Visma really using them. I don't think that is the only difference there was or still is.
Like I said earlier I don't believe Remco&others are clean either, but doping is not a level playing field. So if they are not getting caught by the UCI/ITA, I am more than happy others are catching up, cause it makes the racing watchable again, not this ongoing farce we have witnessed for at least 2,5 years now.

 

[solo80k]

If you look the third picture here and compare it to no muscle babyfat pog, which one of them looks like a powerfull roadcyclist? I am not a professional, but basically every other top athlete looks like highly trained and in super shape. Pog is an outlier in this too. There really has to be something really special inside the body to generate the apparently unlimited power all year round. His not even affected by heavy crashes like every other riders is. #cyborg

I still think that the magic is hidden in the recovery abilities. I have no idea how Pog is able to sustain the level all year long. The typical doping program isn't prepared for all year long season peak. The side effects are killing you in the long run.

In fact, there are races when he is beaten by the top specialist (Jonas 2x TdF, MVDP/WVA on cobbles, Remco/Ganna in the TT).

The real difference is Pog's flexibility and recovery. He's like Michael Phelps who breaks WRs in 50-100-200-400-800-1500 metres with different styles and winning by minutes in open water competition as well. It's unbelievable...

 

[MountainGoatW]

I still think that the magic is hidden in the recovery abilities. I have no idea how Pog is able to sustain the level all year long. The typical doping program isn't prepared for all year long season peak. The side effects are killing you in the long run.

In fact, there are races when he is beaten by the top specialist (Jonas 2x TdF, MVDP/WVA on cobbles, Remco/Ganna in the TT).

The real difference is Pog's flexibility and recovery. He's like Michael Phelps who breaks WRs in 50-100-200-400-800-1500 metres with different styles and winning by minutes in open water competition as well. It's unbelievable...

I am not questioning his recovery, it is top class and obviously enhanced with something too. The Phelps(there was serious doping rumours around him too)reference only fits in my bodytype disbelief, he looked physically like a monster compared even to other top swimmers. My point wasn't about questioning pogs recovery abilities, but how on earth he pushed those monster never seen watts from that body? He is not muscle free, but the difference to almost any other top cyclist is confusing. The mountains I can maybe somehow understand, but how on earth does those legs generate the power to easily follow and almost drop powerhouses like WVA, MDVP etc. in P-R. It is almost like the laws of physics don't affect this him anymore.

 

[nightowl]

Remco’s turnaround from stage 14 to 15 is pretty ridiculous. Gets ridden off the wheel by a group of 7 one day then smokes all the riders that dropped him by minutes without breaking a sweat the next.

This is the craziest such turnaround that I can remember seeing in quite a while - Pog and Jonas are usually just some degree of nuclear all race long.

 

[Rou]

Yes, Remco's improvement has been impressive.

The forum will catch fire on Friday if Remco follows a full nuke on the Alpe...

 

[houtdffan]

Yes, Remco's improvement has been impressive.

The forum will catch fire on Friday if Remco follows a full nuke on the Alpe...

or if Remco counters the Pog nuke with an antimatter strike

 

[Tim Cahill]

Evenepoel needs to consider the possibility of a Loze style crack, maybe ITA took the whole stash, maybe Gianetti has told them to park the program for now, this could be the big man’s moment.

 

[Coppi-Bartali]

Remco’s turnaround from stage 14 to 15 is pretty ridiculous. Gets ridden off the wheel by a group of 7 one day then smokes all the riders that dropped him by minutes without breaking a sweat the next.

This is the craziest such turnaround that I can remember seeing in quite a while - Pog and Jonas are usually just some degree of nuclear all race long.

More than just during the Tour, it's the the difference between his clum level during the season and now. To perform well in the Tour, they have to be a good climber all year round, they need a high basis level of climbing ability

At UAE Tour, Remco wasn't even a top-10 climber, despite a weak start list. In Catalonia, he was outperformed by riders like Lenny.

Yet at Solaison, he was a top-tier climber, and he finished second in the Tour, despite not even ranking among top 5 or 10 climbers for the rest of the season.

That is what makes the difference, and not just compared to Pogačar and Vingegaard, but compared to everyone else. I can't remember anyone in recent years struggling so significantly with climbing all season long, and become third better climber in the Tour in the same season.

 

[MountainGoatW]

More than just during the Tour, it's the the difference between his clum level during the season and now. To perform well in the Tour, they have to be a good climber all year round, they need a high basis level of climbing ability

At UAE Tour, Remco wasn't even a top-10 climber, despite a weak start list. In Catalonia, he was outperformed by riders like Lenny.

Yet at Solaison, he was a top-tier climber, and he finished second in the Tour, despite not even ranking among top 5 or 10 climbers for the rest of the season.

That is what makes the difference, and not just compared to Pogačar and Vingegaard, but compared to everyone else. I can't remember anyone in recent years struggling so significantly with climbing all season long, and become third better climber in the Tour in the same season.

So it is better to superdope all year round for years in a row like Dopačar and UAE(Vinge) or target some specific events? For the sake of competition I take the latter and even now I only think they are just scratching the surface of what teddy&nosferatu has been doing ever since 2018/2019. Your agenda still sticks, only pogs competition is questionable, lol.

 

[ColonelKidneyBeans]

More than just during the Tour, it's the the difference between his clum level during the season and now. To perform well in the Tour, they have to be a good climber all year round, they need a high basis level of climbing ability

At UAE Tour, Remco wasn't even a top-10 climber, despite a weak start list. In Catalonia, he was outperformed by riders like Lenny.

Yet at Solaison, he was a top-tier climber, and he finished second in the Tour, despite not even ranking among top 5 or 10 climbers for the rest of the season.

That is what makes the difference, and not just compared to Pogačar and Vingegaard, but compared to everyone else. I can't remember anyone in recent years struggling so significantly with climbing all season long, and become third better climber in the Tour in the same season.

While Evenepoel is obviously on the sauce, he was also on the heavier side at both UAE and Catalunya, and he also crashed there, and that always seems to impact him more than others.
Once he recovered he wasn't bad at all on the last mountain stage, finishing fifth at 27" after working for Lipowitz.
He isn't built like a "true" climber and can't/won't stay super slim year round, i don't think it goes much further than that.

 

[SHAD0W93]

So it is better to superdope all year round for years in a row like Dopačar and UAE(Vinge) or target some specific events? For the sake of competition I take the latter and even now I only think they are just scratching the surface of what teddy&nosferatu has been doing ever since 2018/2019. Your agenda still sticks, only pogs competition is questionable, lol.

Evenepoel performs all year round as well while struggling in stage racing.

 

[MountainGoatW]

Evenepoel performs all year round as well while struggling in stage racing.

Like you can compare it with the level of teddy-boy from the past 2,5 years, since they upped the program again after loosing to Vinge twice.

 

[SHAD0W93]

Like you can compare it with the level of teddy-boy from the past 2,5 years, since they upped the program again after loosing to Vinge twice.

And if Pogacar wasn’t there he’d have many more wins.

 

[Berniece]

More than just during the Tour, it's the the difference between his clum level during the season and now. To perform well in the Tour, they have to be a good climber all year round, they need a high basis level of climbing ability

At UAE Tour, Remco wasn't even a top-10 climber, despite a weak start list. In Catalonia, he was outperformed by riders like Lenny.

Yet at Solaison, he was a top-tier climber, and he finished second in the Tour, despite not even ranking among top 5 or 10 climbers for the rest of the season.

That is what makes the difference, and not just compared to Pogačar and Vingegaard, but compared to everyone else. I can't remember anyone in recent years struggling so significantly with climbing all season long, and become third better climber in the Tour in the same season.

Have you ever hiked or climbed by bike yourself? Try doing that with 10% extra weight

 

[TheKidsCallMeBoss]

Is someone forcing Remco to be overweight for most of the year? I looked at his YouTube channel, where there’s a video showing what he eats. His breakfast is excessive and makes no sense for an average training day, it contains a lot of fat even if it’s healthy, slow-digesting carbs & protein along with plenty of fibre.

 

[Cookster15]

Evenepoel needs to consider the possibility of a Loze style crack, maybe ITA took the whole stash, maybe Gianetti has told them to park the program for now, this could be the big man’s moment.

Pog still leads by 4'32". Remco will have to be a very big moment indeed. If Pog's huge lead evaporates on the Alpe then yes indeed I think the French have uncovered something very big. We will see.

I am just relieved that motor doping oft mentioned in here isn't the most likely reason why.

 

[Tim Cahill]

Pog still leads by 4'32". Remco will have to be a very big moment indeed. If Pog's huge lead evaporates on the Alpe then yes indeed I think the French have uncovered something very big. We will see.

I am just relieved that motor doping oft mentioned in here isn't the most likely reason why.

Was mostly in jest although I will say UAE looked a little second hand today, a bug going round or something. If he never tries at some point they will never know.

 

[Gianetti_Is_The_Goat]

Remco’s turnaround from stage 14 to 15 is pretty ridiculous. Gets ridden off the wheel by a group of 7 one day then smokes all the riders that dropped him by minutes without breaking a sweat the next.

This is the craziest such turnaround that I can remember seeing in quite a while - Pog and Jonas are usually just some degree of nuclear all race long.

Really?
Finishing fifth ten seconds behind n° 2 (excluding the alien) to winning a stage by sitting in the wheel, when the alien clearly wasn't going full throttle, is a crazy turnaround? Should we call Skjelmoses ITT a crazy turnaround after he lost two minutes to Del Toro the day before?

I'll give you a crazy turnaround. TdF 2006
Stage 16: Le Bourg d'Oisans › La Toussuire - Les Sybelles (Landis: 23rd 10 minutes behind the winner.)
Stage 17: St-Jean-de-Maurienne › Morzine (Landis: winner, 5min 42sec ahead of n° 2)

 

[Gianetti_Is_The_Goat]

While Evenepoel is obviously on the sauce, he was also on the heavier side at both UAE and Catalunya, and he also crashed there, and that always seems to impact him more than others.
Once he recovered he wasn't bad at all on the last mountain stage, finishing fifth at 27" after working for Lipowitz.
He isn't built like a "true" climber and can't/won't stay super slim year round, i don't think it goes much further than that.

"While Evenepoel is obviously on the sauce". What exactly makes it obvious? If he isn't at his ideal weight, he underperforms in the mountains. I consider that normal tbh.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

I'm not sure the pace was that consistent, especially the steepest part before Pogacar started could've gone faster but I haven't looked at these numbers. It could've just been a temporary surge to drop the others.

It's a bit like Lo Port 2023 where I don't think the pacing was as great as it may have seemed and instead the conditions were just even better than people realized.

I can't remember, did @Peyresourde provide a rating for Lo Port for Remco and Roglic?

 

[Gratemans]

I still think that the magic is hidden in the recovery abilities. I have no idea how Pog is able to sustain the level all year long. The typical doping program isn't prepared for all year long season peak. The side effects are killing you in the long run.

In fact, there are races when he is beaten by the top specialist (Jonas 2x TdF, MVDP/WVA on cobbles, Remco/Ganna in the TT).

The real difference is Pog's flexibility and recovery. He's like Michael Phelps who breaks WRs in 50-100-200-400-800-1500 metres with different styles and winning by minutes in open water competition as well. It's unbelievable...

By now I'm kinda almost convinced it's gen-doping. It's not science fiction anymore. Hasn't been for years. In fact, today on a Dutch cycling tv-show, the director of the local WADA lab explained how it works: it's the exact same technology that was used for... insert drum-roll
The Covid vaccines.

Inserting RNA (so not altering DNA), which alters the way the body produces certain proteins or hormones. You can make the body produce more EPO (just as an example, you can make it do all kinds of stuff).
Thing is, it's your body that produced the EPO so it can't be detected as being artificial (which used to be the case). The blood-passport can kinda negate this but it only shows fluctuations. If you use it subtly, who knows? Also, the RNA itself dissolves very quickly.

*edit* I posted this in the Remco thread, just to answer a post that seemed relevant. I suspect that only UAE and Visma have access to this right now. It's all specalution anyway, of course.

 

[nightowl]

Really?
Finishing fifth ten seconds behind n° 2 (excluding the alien) to winning a stage by sitting in the wheel, when the alien clearly wasn't going full throttle, is a crazy turnaround? Should we call Skjelmoses ITT a crazy turnaround after he lost two minutes to Del Toro the day before?

I'll give you a crazy turnaround. TdF 2006
Stage 16: Le Bourg d'Oisans › La Toussuire - Les Sybelles (Landis: 23rd 10 minutes behind the winner.)
Stage 17: St-Jean-de-Maurienne › Morzine (Landis: winner, 5min 42sec ahead of n° 2)

I think that's a mischaracterisation of both performances tbh. Yes he made back time on the flat as expected, but that doesn't change the fact he dropped pretty quick from Vingegaard's pace while the other GC riders followed. Then 24 hours later he follows Pogacar's much stronger pace, for much longer, on a harder climb and did it easily. Meanwhile, everyone else bar Del Toro lost 1+ minute to him even though he couldn't hold their wheel the day before.

And obviously it's not Landis level, but then again almost nothing is - doesn't mean other performances can't be eyebrow-raising.

 

[proffate]

I think that's a mischaracterisation of both performances tbh. Yes he made back time on the flat as expected, but that doesn't change the fact he dropped pretty quick from Vingegaard's pace while the other GC riders followed. Then 24 hours later he follows Pogacar's much stronger pace, for much longer, on a harder climb and did it easily. Meanwhile, everyone else bar Del Toro lost 1+ minute to him even though he couldn't hold their wheel the day before.

And obviously it's not Landis level, but then again almost nothing is - doesn't mean other performances can't be eyebrow-raising.

He obviously didn't go into the red following ving just like he didn't go into the red on the tourmalet. If he had, he would have been a goner instead of coming back after the summit both times. Therefore we don't know what his true abilities were on any day. We don't even know what they were on stage 15 since he had such a sprightly sprint at the end.

I would even say that the others may have gone into the red on Haag and paid for it on Solaison. After all IDT also dropped the others.

I think it's reasonable to state that:
• Remco is at the lowest weight we've seen him
• Remco has been riding into form
• Remco did not have a reason to give it all the beans on any long climb before Solaison because of his somewhat unique ability to pace himself back after the speeds pick up. (This is a sign of wisdom and self confidence, not weakness.)

 

[TheKidsCallMeBoss]

"While Evenepoel is obviously on the sauce". What exactly makes it obvious? If he isn't at his ideal weight, he underperforms in the mountains. I consider that normal tbh.

He clearly needs some sauce to shed the weight and have to spend weeks on the volcano, while he keeps those watts as if he were overweight.

 

[Coppi-Bartali]

Was mostly in jest although I will say UAE looked a little second hand today, a bug going round or something. If he never tries at some point they will never know.

The thing is, Remco has never climbed better than Pogačar, not even against the worst version of Pogačar. Tirreno 2022, Lombardia 2023, and more examples.

Yes, without a doubt, the best thing for this sport is that a rider, who had spent the entire season climbing worse than Lenny and was even outperformed by Munton, to win the Tour in the Alps by clawing back nearly five minutes, despite never having been able to stick with the leader on the climbs, neither this season nor in previous ones.
Without a doubt, Remco winning this Tour in the Alps, turning into a mytical climber he never was would be the most reliable scenario to the cycling.
And I have no doubt that those who "live"at Gianetti-Pogacar thread would view it as credible 😁 .

And the applause from certain people would prove that they don't care about the doping or not doping , but rather just want their favorite rider to win.

When all is said and done, that’s what these clinic threads are all about. You participate just once and they pounce on you like wolves 😁 —even though they are the ones involved in this threads every day, and some even have clinical-nick. Sheer cynicism. If what you’re describing were to actually happen—with Remco winning this Tour in Alps as a mytical climber—they’d accept it as perfectly plausible, simply because of who’s doing it.
They would consider that the most credible even though he’s been dropped on the climbs for six years...