Remco Evenepoel

[Low is rhe new high]

By now I'm kinda almost convinced it's gen-doping. It's not science fiction anymore. Hasn't been for years. In fact, today on a Dutch cycling tv-show, the director of the local WADA lab explained how it works: it's the exact same technology that was used for... insert drum-roll
The Covid vaccines.

Inserting RNA (so not altering DNA), which alters the way the body produces certain proteins or hormones. You can make the body produce more EPO (just as an example, you can make it do all kinds of stuff).
Thing is, it's your body that produced the EPO so it can't be detected as being artificial (which used to be the case). The blood-passport can kinda negate this but it only shows fluctuations. If you use it subtly, who knows? Also, the RNA itself dissolves very quickly.

*edit* I posted this in the Remco thread, just to answer a post that seemed relevant. I suspect that only UAE and Visma have access to this right now. It's all specalution anyway, of course.

But that should be called mRNA doping, not gene doping. I also think that is one of the possibilities, however there is the question how the reach the right levels of substance to be active. For the Covid it was not RNA that amplified the response. It was enough to produce a tiny amount of antigens which our immune system reacted to. Then natural systems amplified the response. To induce production of meaningful level a protein or hormone needs something more.

 

[bah]

The thing is, Remco has never climbed better than Pogačar, not even against the worst version of Pogačar. Tirreno 2022, Lombardia 2023, and more examples.

Yes, without a doubt, the best thing for this sport is that a rider, who had spent the entire season climbing worse than Lenny and was even outperformed by Munton, to win the Tour in the Alps by clawing back nearly five minutes, despite never having been able to stick with the leader on the climbs, neither this season nor in previous ones.
Without a doubt, Remco winning this Tour in the Alps, turning into a mytical climber he never was would be the most reliable scenario to the cycling.
And I have no doubt that those who "live"at Gianetti-Pogacar thread would view it as credible 😁 .

And the applause from certain people would prove that they don't care about the doping or not doping , but rather just want their favorite rider to win.

When all is said and done, that’s what these clinic threads are all about. You participate just once and they pounce on you like wolves 😁 —even though they are the ones involved in this threads every day, and some even have clinical-nick. Sheer cynicism. If what you’re describing were to actually happen—with Remco winning this Tour in Alps as a mytical climber—they’d accept it as perfectly plausible, simply because of who’s doing it.
They would consider that the most credible even though he’s been dropped on the climbs for six years...

He literally said he was joking. Absolutely no-one expects this to happen save for Pogacar being seriously sick or having an accident.

 

[Red Rick]

I can't remember, did @Peyresourde provide a rating for Lo Port for Remco and Roglic?

He did and IIRC he has it slightly lower than W2W has it.

 

[MountainGoatW]

The thing is, Remco has never climbed better than Pogačar, not even against the worst version of Pogačar. Tirreno 2022, Lombardia 2023, and more examples.

Yes, without a doubt, the best thing for this sport is that a rider, who had spent the entire season climbing worse than Lenny and was even outperformed by Munton, to win the Tour in the Alps by clawing back nearly five minutes, despite never having been able to stick with the leader on the climbs, neither this season nor in previous ones.
Without a doubt, Remco winning this Tour in the Alps, turning into a mytical climber he never was would be the most reliable scenario to the cycling.
And I have no doubt that those who "live"at Gianetti-Pogacar thread would view it as credible 😁 .

And the applause from certain people would prove that they don't care about the doping or not doping , but rather just want their favorite rider to win.

When all is said and done, that’s what these clinic threads are all about. You participate just once and they pounce on you like wolves 😁 —even though they are the ones involved in this threads every day, and some even have clinical-nick. Sheer cynicism. If what you’re describing were to actually happen—with Remco winning this Tour in Alps as a mytical climber—they’d accept it as perfectly plausible, simply because of who’s doing it.
They would consider that the most credible even though he’s been dropped on the climbs for six years...

I don't think anyone is going to win pog in the Alps, but would be happy if any rider would manage to beat the pog, Dracula and the UAE goodfellas. Not so much of a fan of any spesific cyclist, since none of them comes from my country, but of course you like some more than others. I have just been sick and tired of this pog&dracula hoax since 2020 and it has only gotten worse since 23/24 mythical winter months "training" that madecthe power rise another 10% on a +25 year old already a number one rider. I remember getting the bad Ricco/Saunier level disbelief already in 2020, but now just with a lot more money and funding behind the experiment.

The thing you don't want to see with your all year climbing form explanation is, that pog never was a natural climber either not body or results wise. They just started the superdope program earlier with him so that they can have an explanation, that he was always a mountain goat(these days a goat on all other terrain too lmao) which isn't true, but enough for the new generation of fans to swallow in. The pr-department has been on point from the get go too.

 

[ColonelKidneyBeans]

"While Evenepoel is obviously on the sauce". What exactly makes it obvious? If he isn't at his ideal weight, he underperforms in the mountains. I consider that normal tbh.

I actually kinda like him, but he's partying like it's the 90's power wise and spent most of his career under the good care of Van Mol at QS.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

By now I'm kinda almost convinced it's gen-doping. It's not science fiction anymore. Hasn't been for years. In fact, today on a Dutch cycling tv-show, the director of the local WADA lab explained how it works: it's the exact same technology that was used for... insert drum-roll
The Covid vaccines.

Inserting RNA (so not altering DNA), which alters the way the body produces certain proteins or hormones. You can make the body produce more EPO (just as an example, you can make it do all kinds of stuff).
Thing is, it's your body that produced the EPO so it can't be detected as being artificial (which used to be the case). The blood-passport can kinda negate this but it only shows fluctuations. If you use it subtly, who knows? Also, the RNA itself dissolves very quickly.

*edit* I posted this in the Remco thread, just to answer a post that seemed relevant. I suspect that only UAE and Visma have access to this right now. It's all specalution anyway, of course.

Sounds pretty good to me – sign me up!

 

[Gianetti_Is_The_Goat]

More than just during the Tour, it's the the difference between his clum level during the season and now. To perform well in the Tour, they have to be a good climber all year round, they need a high basis level of climbing ability

At UAE Tour, Remco wasn't even a top-10 climber, despite a weak start list. In Catalonia, he was outperformed by riders like Lenny.

Yet at Solaison, he was a top-tier climber, and he finished second in the Tour, despite not even ranking among top 5 or 10 climbers for the rest of the season.

That is what makes the difference, and not just compared to Pogačar and Vingegaard, but compared to everyone else. I can't remember anyone in recent years struggling so significantly with climbing all season long, and become third better climber in the Tour in the same season.

UAE tour was in March and in Catalunya he finished right behind Martinez, once after his stupid crash and once after he worked for Lipowitz. Nothing weird about that.
One week tours were used to prepare riders for the GTs. That's how it used to be until 5 years ago. Measuring someones climbing ability based on those performances, isn't realistic.

Someone who 'struggles significantly with climbing' doesn't finish 2nd in Lombardy ora mountainous WC. Didn't he prove he could climb in Vuelta 2022 or TdF 2024?

 

[houtdffan]

I'd say the bigger red flag is Red Bull going from phantoms to becoming full US Postal over the course of 2 weeks

 

[Peyresourde]

He did and IIRC he has it slightly lower than W2W has it.

Marc Soler on Lo Port was one of the ten most shocking performances of the decade in my opinion.

 

[Red Rick]

Marc Soler on Lo Port was one of the ten most shocking performances of the decade in my opinion.

Soler in Catalunya could never shock me.

He also did a huge seasonal best on Lo Port in 2017 IIRC

 

[rghysens]

By now I'm kinda almost convinced it's gen-doping. It's not science fiction anymore. Hasn't been for years. In fact, today on a Dutch cycling tv-show, the director of the local WADA lab explained how it works: it's the exact same technology that was used for... insert drum-roll
The Covid vaccines.

Inserting RNA (so not altering DNA), which alters the way the body produces certain proteins or hormones. You can make the body produce more EPO (just as an example, you can make it do all kinds of stuff).
Thing is, it's your body that produced the EPO so it can't be detected as being artificial (which used to be the case). The blood-passport can kinda negate this but it only shows fluctuations. If you use it subtly, who knows? Also, the RNA itself dissolves very quickly.

*edit* I posted this in the Remco thread, just to answer a post that seemed relevant. I suspect that only UAE and Visma have access to this right now. It's all specalution anyway, of course.

Said local WADA lab director (Peter Van Eeno) talked about "gene doping" as doping of the future. He specifically claimed that he didn´t think it was used on an individual basis, but he suspected. ...insert another drumroll....it to be developped by "some countries".

 

[Red Rick]

Call me when all the issues of gene therapy with cellular delivery are resolved to talk about gene doping.

 

[Gianetti_Is_The_Goat]

I'd say the bigger red flag is Red Bull going from phantoms to becoming full US Postal over the course of 2 weeks

You might want to rethink that claim after today's stage.

 

[Cookster15]

You might want to rethink that claim after today's stage.

Well to be fair Remco's time today was 37 minutes and 55 seconds. While a long way slower than Pogacar that's still faster than the below.

• 2001: 38:03 Lance Armstrong 21.76 km/h
• 1995: 38:04 Miguel Indurain 21.75 km/h
• 1995: 38:04 Alex Zulle 21.75 km/h
• 1995: 38:06 Bjarne Riis 21.73 km/h
• 1997: 38:20 Richard Virenque 21.60 km/h
• 1995: 38:34 Laurent Madouas 21.47 km/h

Fastest times up Alpe d'Huez - before today

 

[Gianetti_Is_The_Goat]

Well to be fair Remco's time today was 37 minutes and 55 seconds. While a long way slower than Pogacar that's still faster than the below.

• 2001: 38:03 Lance Armstrong 21.76 km/h
• 1995: 38:04 Miguel Indurain 21.75 km/h
• 1995: 38:04 Alex Zulle 21.75 km/h
• 1995: 38:06 Bjarne Riis 21.73 km/h
• 1997: 38:20 Richard Virenque 21.60 km/h
• 1995: 38:34 Laurent Madouas 21.47 km/h

Fastest times up Alpe d'Huez - before today

2'30" down to Pogacars time and slower than any of Pantani's times and Ulrichs fastest time, but you chose this list to focus on. Oh well.

 

[AmRacer]

2'30" down to Pogacars time and slower than any of Pantani's times and Ulrichs fastest time, but you chose this list to focus on. Oh well.

How many of those riders had clinical issues?

 

[awavey]

Well to be fair Remco's time today was 37 minutes and 55 seconds. While a long way slower than Pogacar that's still faster than the below.

• 2001: 38:03 Lance Armstrong 21.76 km/h
• 1995: 38:04 Miguel Indurain 21.75 km/h
• 1995: 38:04 Alex Zulle 21.75 km/h
• 1995: 38:06 Bjarne Riis 21.73 km/h
• 1997: 38:20 Richard Virenque 21.60 km/h
• 1995: 38:34 Laurent Madouas 21.47 km/h

Fastest times up Alpe d'Huez - before today

and he got boxed in behind a moto/fans didnt he till the barriers? just after he dropped Seixas, so I dont even think that was the best potential time he could have achieved

 

[awavey]

How many of those riders had clinical issues?

its not a great list to be on is it 😀

 

[ppanther92]

"While Evenepoel is obviously on the sauce". What exactly makes it obvious? If he isn't at his ideal weight, he underperforms in the mountains. I consider that normal tbh.

Ulle war sauber - finally, proven

 

[Gianetti_Is_The_Goat]

How many of those riders had clinical issues?

Irrelevant. These comparisons are not very useful because there are so many elements to be taken into account.
However, we can compare the times on the Alpe d'Huez clim in this TdF: 2'30" in 12 km on the second guy who was in the wheels for 10 km. That's 12,5 seconds per km.

 

[AmRacer]

Irrelevant. These comparisons are not very useful because there are so many elements to be taken into account.
However, we can compare the times on the Alpe d'Huez clim in this TdF: 2'30" in 12 km on the second guy who was in the wheels for 10 km. That's 12,5 seconds per km.

Since when is clinical issues irrelevant?

 

[jotafap]

Since when is clinical issues irrelevant?

Since we are not talking about Pogi. The double standards couldn't be more blatant.

 

[BubbaChuck]

Remco in this tour looked,like he went pretty deep in those 2 months.Argubly most dependant on monastery of all GC contenders.

 

[Gianetti_Is_The_Goat]

Since when is clinical issues irrelevant?

Good luck calculating the impact of EPO use vs better bikes, tires, nutrition and more importantly, the lower weight of the riders now.
Do you have a method to calculate the impact of each of those factors, let alone all of them?

 

[Gianetti_Is_The_Goat]

Since we are not talking about Pogi. The double standards couldn't be more blatant.

Explain the 12,5 seconds per km on Alpe d'Huez before lecturing me on double standards.