Richie makes his Clinic debut...

[Ferminal]

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/porte-cites-self-as-proof-of-cleaner-cycling

“I'm sure the riders I've ridden with before think that I have cheated. But **** them. Look at us young riders, we are a new generation,” Porte said.

“Look at the Danes, Australians and Englishmen, it is where young riders will come and take over. The Australians should not even get a Coke or caffeine-gel, it's pretty extreme. Sport is undoubtedly cleaner than ever.”

 

[craig1985]

Blackcat to respond in 5..4..3

 

[theyoungest]

Here's hoping that we'll soon have a British or Australian positive, so this bull**** about clean nations will be over.

 

[The Hitch]

I say all the top guys dope but Porte might be clean, because, well he isnt one of the top guys.

Its very possible that Porte was clean for much of the season.

Obviously like everyone else he was doped for the world tt. He maybe has enough talent to win that Romandie tt clean because its only Romandie.

And he might have been doped for Classica San sebastian. I cant know because i didnt see it but apparently he was very good, for someone who was off form (hadnt done the tour)

But at the Giro the only things special about his performance was that a lot of the guys who would be finishing above him crashed in the first few stages. and that he has an australian flag next to his name which automatically makes him into the next big thing, even if he finished 5 minutes down on the Monte Grappa stage alone while in Pink - (should be performance of your life).

 

[roundabout]

I guess it comes down to expectations. Will there be a blood bag or two ready for a neo-pro who is doing his first major races without much expectation from the team?

 

[The Hitch]

I guess it comes down to expectations. Will there be a blood bag or two ready for a neo-pro who is doing his first major races without much expectation from the team?

Go back 3 years and you have a similar situation with the same team at the same race, and its clear there were blood bags aplenty

 

[hektoren]

I say all the top guys dope but Porte might be clean, because, well he isnt one of the top guys.

You tar with a mighty big brush, Sir. You sure you've got the strength to lift it?

Let's see, Hushovd is clean, Cadel Evans is clean etc. etc. etc....You absolutely sure all the top guys dope??

I think Porte is right. It's cleaner than ever, and a new generation establish itself in the top echelon. Clean. That's a good sign.

Hope you've only got a bad hangover from last night's celebrations. 2011 will be a good year.

 

[roundabout]

Andy was a 3rd year pro who served his apprenticeship

 

[Monte Zoncolon]

Richie Porte's Vo2 Max and power to weight ratio are impressive.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/opening-doors-comes-naturally-for-porte


While many of Australia's cycling exports have excelled on the track and transferred those traits to the road, Porte's strength lies in his climbing ability. His numbers after testing in the Mapei laboratory tell the story: a Vo2 max of 81 and a power to weight ratio of 7.6 watts per kilogram.

When you consider that any figure over seven percent is exceptional and perfect for a climber, Porte seems to be a natural. He modestly qualifies this figure by explaining, "It sounds really high but it's one of those 'max' tests - only Mapei does it, I think."

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Here's hoping that we'll soon have a British or Australian positive, so this bull**** about clean nations will be over.

David Millar, Rob Hayles, Mark Roland, Stephen Hines...

Let's see, Hushovd is clean, Cadel Evans is clean etc. etc. etc....You absolutely sure all the top guys dope??

I'm gonna leave Hushovd alone, but how can we be so sure that a guy who's raced for Mapei when there was a team doping program and T-Mobile when there was a team doping program, and now rides for a team run by the same guy who ran Phonak, is clean simply because we feel better about him than, say, Menchov?

Cuddles may or may not be clean, it's a crapshoot. I do not feel comfortable saying with any degree of certainty that he's clean, but I don't feel comfortable saying he's definitely dirty either, because his team associations are all I have against him (not to mention that it's possible he could be like Cunego and have been dirty at one point but now be clean or vice versa).

 

[The Hitch]

You tar with a mighty big brush, Sir. You sure you've got the strength to lift it?

Let's see, Hushovd is clean, Cadel Evans is clean etc. etc. etc....You absolutely sure all the top guys dope??

I think Porte is right. It's cleaner than ever, and a new generation establish itself in the top echelon. Clean. That's a good sign.

Hope you've only got a bad hangover from last night's celebrations. 2011 will be a good year.

Hushovd clean, Cuddles clean? where do you get this? Hushovd maybe since hes a sprinte but you cant know that for sure.

Weve been over this before. I say all the top guys dope because the days of a few amphetimines to wake you up in the morning are over. We know ALL the top guys from the 90's until at least 2006 or 7 were doping. All of them.

Now ONCE again (its getting tiring) cycling like all sports claims to have turned the page. Claims there is no doping, just like after Festina. "you shouldnt have believed us the previous 1 million times we said it was clean, but this time, we promise its all clean. Honest".

We know from Kohl and Landis its easy to not get caught. We know dopers like Basso, Valverde, Frank Schleck never failed a test. Contador never failed one until a very slight slip up this year, and Landis was doing it for years without getting caught. And Kohl was doing it for years without getting caught.

And most importantly we know the benefits of the drugs are huge. 30% according to science of sport. You really believe that all the good guys -Nibali, Evans, Menchov, Contador are beating doped to the gills bad guys, Mosquera, Kohl, Di Luca, Ricco, in gts by staying clean.

Despite all we know about how easy it is to get away, how all the top guys have been doping for years, and how big the benefit of drugs is, are you really that sure Cuddles is clean?

Andy was a 3rd year pro who served his apprenticeship

And he was a lot younger. Id say age is more important than years as a pro. Vino didnt stay the same age when he got a 2 year ban.

Schleck hadnt any great results. Porte had just won a Romandie tt and was Australian so got twice as much hype for it as a an italian or spaniard would

(not to mention that it's possible he could be like Cunego and have been dirty at one point but now be clean or vice versa).

Considering his recent gt results, thats very plausible

 

[roundabout]

Did Mapei have a good program for their stage races? I remember Squinzi complaining in the late 90's early 00's about doping when his riders were left behind in Grand Tours. Here's another link

http://www.dailypeloton.com/displayarticle.asp?pk=2473

As for T-Mobile i'm reminded of the "food poisoning" in the Vuelta which didn't effect Evans

http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/road/2004/vuelta04/?id=results/vuelta045

Again, it's no guarantee that Evans is clean, whoever guit by association is also no guarantee that he is dirty

 

[hrotha]

I'm sure the riders I've ridden with before think that I have cheated

Aren't that kind of rumours usually true? I mean, the people you race with usually have a good idea of what's going on. We see it every time here with local US riders, they always know who's on something.

 

[Anonymous]

David Millar, Rob Hayles, Mark Roland, Stephen Hines...

I'm gonna leave Hushovd alone, but how can we be so sure that a guy who's raced for Mapei when there was a team doping program and T-Mobile when there was a team doping program, and now rides for a team run by the same guy who ran Phonak, is clean simply because we feel better about him than, say, Menchov?

Cuddles may or may not be clean, it's a crapshoot. I do not feel comfortable saying with any degree of certainty that he's clean, but I don't feel comfortable saying he's definitely dirty either, because his team associations are all I have against him (not to mention that it's possible he could be like Cunego and have been dirty at one point but now be clean or vice versa).

Not to mention Saeco before Mapei....

 

[sublimit]

Here's hoping that we'll soon have a British or Australian positive, so this bull**** about clean nations will be over.

No country is completely clean, Spain stand out as the worst culprits followed by Italy, USA.

Riis and Millar obviously took PEDS or doped or whatever but i cant think of too many more from Britain or Denmark.

 

[The Hitch]

No country is completely clean, Spain stand out as the worst culprits followed by Italy, USA.

Riis and Millar obviously took PEDS or doped or whatever but i cant think of too many more from Britain or Denmark.

Michael Rasmussen comes to mind

 

[Monte Zoncolon]

Obviously like everyone else he was doped for the world tt.

http://velonews.competitor.com/2010/09/road/world-elite-mens-time-trial-championship-results_143849

Result 2010

1. Fabian Cancellara, Switzerland, 58:09.19
2. David Millar, Great Britain, at 1:02.75
3. Tony Martin, Germany, at 1:12.49
4. Richie Porte, Australia, at 1:19.00
5. Michael Rogers, Australia, at 2:24.94
6. Koos Moerenhout, Netherlands, at 2:40.69
7. Luis Leon Sanchez Gil, Spain, at 2:44.23
8. David Zabriskie, United States, at 2:51.41
9. Maciej Bodnar, Poland, at 3:00.70
10. Gustav Larsson, Sweden, at 3:01.02
11. Bert Grabsch, Germany, at 3:06.14
12. Ignatas Konovalovas, Lithuania, at 3:07.46
13. Vladimir Gusev, Russia, at 3:27.28
14. Carlos Oyarzun, China, at 3:30.54
15. Nicolas Vogondy, France, at 3:38.85
16. Andriy Grivko, Ukraine, at 3:40.70
17. José Ivan Gutierrez Palacios, Spain, at 3:42.56
18. Alex Rasmussen, Denmark, at 3:45.07
19. Sylvain Chavanel, France, at 3:59.84
20. Janez Brajkovic, Slovenia, at 4:03.97
21. Artem Ovechkin, Russia, at 4:06.89
22. Dmitriy Fofonov, Kazakhstan, at 4:11.23
23. Jack Bauer, New Zealand, at 4:17.78
24. Tejay Van Garderen, United States, at 4:40.89
25. David Mccann, Ireland, at 4:52.60
26. Svein Tuft, Canada, at 4:55.15
27. Martin Velits, Slovakia, at 5:00.00
28. Raivis Belohvosciks, Latvia, at 5:15.15
29. Matias Medici, Argentina, at 5:17.55
30. Kanstantsin Sivtsov, Belarus, at 5:23.48
31. Michael Morkov, Denmark, at 5:24.76
32. Peter Velits, Slovakia, at 5:26.34
33. Tanel Kangert, Estonia, at 5:30.12
34. Andrey Zeits, Kazakhstan, at 5:33.64
35. Dominique Cornu, Belgium, at 5:35.83
36. Jos Van Emden, Netherlands, at 5:47.55
37. Gordon Mccauley, New Zealand, at 6:55.96
38. Jay Robert Thomson, South Africa, at 6:59.38
39. Jaroslaw Marycz, Poland, at 7:24.34
40. Esad Hasanovic, Serbia, at 9:02.58
41. Reginald Douglas, St. Kitts- Nevis, at 23:08.48
42. James Weekes, St. Kitts- Nevis, at 23:49.61

Two Question's

( 1 ) How is it obvious that he was doped ( Richie Porte ) ?

( 2 ) How is it obvious that everybody else was doped for the world tt ?

 

[The Hitch]

http://velonews.competitor.com/2010/09/road/world-elite-mens-time-trial-championship-results_143849

Result 2010

1. Fabian Cancellara, Switzerland, 58:09.19
2. David Millar, Great Britain, at 1:02.75
3. Tony Martin, Germany, at 1:12.49
4. Richie Porte, Australia, at 1:19.00
5. Michael Rogers, Australia, at 2:24.94
6. Koos Moerenhout, Netherlands, at 2:40.69
7. Luis Leon Sanchez Gil, Spain, at 2:44.23
8. David Zabriskie, United States, at 2:51.41
9. Maciej Bodnar, Poland, at 3:00.70
10. Gustav Larsson, Sweden, at 3:01.02
11. Bert Grabsch, Germany, at 3:06.14
12. Ignatas Konovalovas, Lithuania, at 3:07.46
13. Vladimir Gusev, Russia, at 3:27.28
14. Carlos Oyarzun, China, at 3:30.54
15. Nicolas Vogondy, France, at 3:38.85
16. Andriy Grivko, Ukraine, at 3:40.70
17. José Ivan Gutierrez Palacios, Spain, at 3:42.56
18. Alex Rasmussen, Denmark, at 3:45.07
19. Sylvain Chavanel, France, at 3:59.84
20. Janez Brajkovic, Slovenia, at 4:03.97
21. Artem Ovechkin, Russia, at 4:06.89
22. Dmitriy Fofonov, Kazakhstan, at 4:11.23
23. Jack Bauer, New Zealand, at 4:17.78
24. Tejay Van Garderen, United States, at 4:40.89
25. David Mccann, Ireland, at 4:52.60
26. Svein Tuft, Canada, at 4:55.15
27. Martin Velits, Slovakia, at 5:00.00
28. Raivis Belohvosciks, Latvia, at 5:15.15
29. Matias Medici, Argentina, at 5:17.55
30. Kanstantsin Sivtsov, Belarus, at 5:23.48
31. Michael Morkov, Denmark, at 5:24.76
32. Peter Velits, Slovakia, at 5:26.34
33. Tanel Kangert, Estonia, at 5:30.12
34. Andrey Zeits, Kazakhstan, at 5:33.64
35. Dominique Cornu, Belgium, at 5:35.83
36. Jos Van Emden, Netherlands, at 5:47.55
37. Gordon Mccauley, New Zealand, at 6:55.96
38. Jay Robert Thomson, South Africa, at 6:59.38
39. Jaroslaw Marycz, Poland, at 7:24.34
40. Esad Hasanovic, Serbia, at 9:02.58
41. Reginald Douglas, St. Kitts- Nevis, at 23:08.48
42. James Weekes, St. Kitts- Nevis, at 23:49.61

Two Question's

( 1 ) How is it obvious that he was doped ( Richie Porte ) ?

( 2 ) How is it obvious that everybody else was doped for the world tt ?

In reverse order

2 By everyone else i meant the top guys, not literaly everyone. Cancellara Millar Rogers Martin and Porte. Maybe one or two others. Velits for example clearly wasnt doped

1 Because i feel all the top guys dope (see post 11). In all sports. Im not saying their all Pantaning it on epo but some sort of drugs. Cancellara is very suspicious, Millar got caught and a lot suspect hes still up to it and Dodger has links to Ferrari. THat leaves Porte and Martin. Its the world championships. I think that (as in many sports not just cycling) they had to take it just to compete. Their results were certainatly suspiciously good.

 

[JPM London]

Riis and Millar obviously took PEDS or doped or whatever but i cant think of too many more from Britain or Denmark.

Not too many Danes in total, but then there aren't that many riders compared to the bigger cycling nations to start with.
Of the riders in the 90s: Skibby admitted to something like 11 years dope in a book - he rode for TVM, a team name that rings a bell? Brian Holm admitted to being on EPO in 96 when he helped Riis at the Tour. Rolf Sorensen steadily denies, although he's on the Conconi list of "amateurs" and there's a doctor testifying that "he took a lot, but not nearly as much as some other riders did".
Hitch mentions Michael Rasmussen. He's never tested positive, but in addition to playing hide'n'seek an being bad at geography there are stories of smuggled dope, the Austrian flat with the blood machine for rent and comments that his departure from csc in 2001 was due to personality as well as abnormal blood values.
Heard of a guy called Kim Andersen? Although he prob never played with epo, but none the less.
A long list of other (90s) riders connected to a belgian dope doctor was published in 99 - although it's obviously a stretch to say they all doped based on that alone.
The head of DCU, the danish cycling union, is an ex-doper as well.
I can go on - just let me know when to stop...

FWIW, though, I do believe that the current stable of Danish riders are clean - why? Because I actually believe in what Porte et al says...

As for the Brits I don't know too much, but am happy to believe Wiggins is clean an don't doubt it for a second when it comes to Dan Lloyd and Cav...

( 1 ) How is it obvious that he was doped ( Richie Porte ) ?

( 2 ) How is it obvious that everybody else was doped for the world tt ?

I was wondering the same thing, but I guess it doesn't need explaining when it's so obvious

 

[L'arriviste]

According to my records, these are the Danes who were sanctioned and/or made admissions, as far back as 1980 (when my records stop):

Michael Rasmussen
Bo Hamburger
Claus Michael Møller
Per Pedersen
Michael Skelde
Brian Dalgaard Jensen
Bjarne Riis
Brian Holm
Jesper Worre
Jesper Skibby
Kim Andersen
Nicolai Bo Larsen
Chris Anker Sørensen (warning only)

 

[maltiv]

I don't really know what Denmark are doing on this "clean country" list. They have some of the worst dopers in history, like Bjarne Riis, Michael Rasmussen and Kim Andersen. I don't particularly trust guys like Matti Breschel either.

 

[JPM London]

I don't really know what Denmark are doing on this "clean country" list. They have some of the worst dopers in history, like Bjarne Riis, Michael Rasmussen and Kim Andersen. I don't particularly trust guys like Matti Breschel either.

Sure, they doped, but what on earth makes them "some of the worst dopers"?
Riis and Andersen just did what all the other contenders also did - Rasmussen, agreed, should have known better...

 

[maltiv]

Sure, they doped, but what on earth makes them "some of the worst dopers"?
Riis and Andersen just did what all the other contenders also did - Rasmussen, agreed, should have known better...

Bjarne Riis did not only dope himself, he also runs a protour team where he most likely has something to do with their program. Same about Andersen, but he qualifies just by being caught twice.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Hushovd clean, Cuddles clean? where do you get this? Hushovd maybe since hes a sprinte but you cant know that for sure.

Weve been over this before. I say all the top guys dope because the days of a few amphetimines to wake you up in the morning are over. We know ALL the top guys from the 90's until at least 2006 or 7 were doping. All of them.

Now ONCE again (its getting tiring) cycling like all sports claims to have turned the page. Claims there is no doping, just like after Festina. "you shouldnt have believed us the previous 1 million times we said it was clean, but this time, we promise its all clean. Honest".

We know from Kohl and Landis its easy to not get caught. We know dopers like Basso, Valverde, Frank Schleck never failed a test. Contador never failed one until a very slight slip up this year, and Landis was doing it for years without getting caught. And Kohl was doing it for years without getting caught.

And most importantly we know the benefits of the drugs are huge. 30% according to science of sport. You really believe that all the good guys -Nibali, Evans, Menchov, Contador are beating doped to the gills bad guys, Mosquera, Kohl, Di Luca, Ricco, in gts by staying clean.

Despite all we know about how easy it is to get away, how all the top guys have been doping for years, and how big the benefit of drugs is, are you really that sure Cuddles is clean?



And he was a lot younger. Id say age is more important than years as a pro. Vino didnt stay the same age when he got a 2 year ban.

Schleck hadnt any great results. Porte had just won a Romandie tt and was Australian so got twice as much hype for it as a an italian or spaniard would



Considering his recent gt results, thats very plausible

While I agree with some of your points the highlighted is way off.

Even for EPO the highest benefits I have read were in the mid teens - and that was with no controls or limits.
The benefits of PEDs like EPO have been narrowed as limits were put in place and testing evolved. While I have little faith in the application of the Biological Passport it again has narrowed the ability to jack up to levels like back in the 90's.

The Porte article appears to be translation of a translation - but if he said the sport is cleaner then he is correct .... in a Pat McQuaid sort of doublespeak kind of way.

 

[simo1733]

David Millar, Rob Hayles, Mark Roland, Stephen Hines...

I'm gonna leave Hushovd alone, but how can we be so sure that a guy who's raced for Mapei when there was a team doping program and T-Mobile when there was a team doping program, and now rides for a team run by the same guy who ran Phonak, is clean simply because we feel better about him than, say, Menchov?

Cuddles may or may not be clean, it's a crapshoot. I do not feel comfortable saying with any degree of certainty that he's clean, but I don't feel comfortable saying he's definitely dirty either, because his team associations are all I have against him (not to mention that it's possible he could be like Cunego and have been dirty at one point but now be clean or vice versa).

Do enlighten us.what Peds did Hayles and Millar test positive for?