Rider admits guilt

[SVThumper]

Ok so hear it goes. I’m a long time lurker and this is only my second posting but I wanted to pose the following hypothetical situation. (please go easy on me)

What would happen if a well known current rider, from a top tier team, admitted using all kinds of PEDs/blood doping over the last 5 or so years?

How would he be treated by his team/the peloton/the UCI/his fans/cycling fans in general and even here at the clinic? What might the long term repercussions of his actions be for the sport of cycling?

Some things to bear in mind about this fictional rider.

1. He has been riding professionally for 5 or 6 years and still has a few good years racing left in him.
2. He’s a popular rider and seen as a generally all right guy.
3. He comes from the fictional country of Belfrancery.
4. He has maybe 1 classics win to his name, a stage win in a grand tour, a couple of top 10 places in some bigger stage races and a few minor race victories.
5. He has never been tested positive for anything or even come close to it.
6. When coming clean he details everything, spills the beans on all those that have helped him over the years and implicates a few other riders.

Let’s face it we all would love someone like this guy to have the guts to do this. But what if this actually happened? Would we love him or hate him? Would he even be allowed to get back on his bike again?

Sorry if this has been covered before but I couldn’t find it doing a quick search. Mods please feel free to delete this thread if it has.

Cheers

 

[Mongol_Waaijer]

6. When coming clean he details everything, spills the beans on all those that have helped him over the years and implicates a few other riders.

Let’s face it we all would love someone like this guy to have the guts to do this. But what if this actually happened? Would we love him or hate him? Would he even

the severity of the reaction would depend on who he implicated. If it was big names the UCI would call him a fantasist, other riders and DS's would say he was a deranged liar, and fans of those named riders would loathe him. There would then begin a smear campaign against him, and he'd never work in the sport again. He may well end up depressed, alone and struggling.

If he named no-name riders or guys who had already been busted he'd probably be applauded for his honesty and rehabilitated as proof that a clean athlete can be a succesful professional cyclist. In other words they'd make positive PR from it - "Look - The culture changed so much and cycling is so clean that one of the last ever dopers came forward to change his ways!" etc etcx

 

[hrotha]

If a rider did that, he'd be a hero, simple as that. I can't even begin to express how much valour it'd take. I don't think he'd have many fans outside of the Clinic though.

 

[Mongol_Waaijer]

Oh, and his team and teammates would be most vociferous in saying he did it all without their knowledge, and they would say he had some sort of financial motive in wanting to damage them etc.

If it was a Bruyneel / LA rider he's be in big trouble.

 

[Cloxxki]

Good thought experiment.

What comes to mind now with other active discussion: more riders drop dead from PEDs than admit to using them during their active career. Being several versus none ever.

 

[Martinello]

Good and debate provocing post.

Naming other riders/DS would probably get the rider involved in numerous law suits or at least threats of such. Even if the rider had iron clad evidence, the entire proces would probably bleed him dry, money wise, and obviously leave him lonesome and depressed after the numerous court hearings etc.

Naming top dog drug suppliers would probably see him at the bottom of the harbour wearing a pair of concrete socks. The illegal traffic with PEDs is just a lucrative as the 'ordinary' drug trade and done by the same criminals.

In other words - spilling all the beans is not an option for a pro bike rider who is looking to
a) keep on making money from his sport for years to come
b) sustain himself and his family after hanging up the wheels.
c) maintain his physical and mental health

 

[MarkvW]

Ok so hear it goes. I’m a long time lurker and this is only my second posting but I wanted to pose the following hypothetical situation. (please go easy on me)

What would happen if a well known current rider, from a top tier team, admitted using all kinds of PEDs/blood doping over the last 5 or so years?

How would he be treated by his team/the peloton/the UCI/his fans/cycling fans in general and even here at the clinic? What might the long term repercussions of his actions be for the sport of cycling?

Some things to bear in mind about this fictional rider.

1. He has been riding professionally for 5 or 6 years and still has a few good years racing left in him.
2. He’s a popular rider and seen as a generally all right guy.
3. He comes from the fictional country of Belfrancery.
4. He has maybe 1 classics win to his name, a stage win in a grand tour, a couple of top 10 places in some bigger stage races and a few minor race victories.
5. He has never been tested positive for anything or even come close to it.
6. When coming clean he details everything, spills the beans on all those that have helped him over the years and implicates a few other riders.

Let’s face it we all would love someone like this guy to have the guts to do this. But what if this actually happened? Would we love him or hate him? Would he even be allowed to get back on his bike again?

Sorry if this has been covered before but I couldn’t find it doing a quick search. Mods please feel free to delete this thread if it has.

Cheers

If the rider comes clean with no strings attached while he is still an active pro and not under any suspicion, and faces sanctions honestly, the man would be a demi-god in my book.

 

[BotanyBay]

Depends on how detailed (and accountable) he is for the fraud. And (in my personal view only) how willing he is to break with Omerta in regards to where he received the products and advice on how to use it. Did his team put him up to it? Other riders? Who?

If he pulls a "I doped during this time, and I'm ashamed, really devastated and sorry... but don't want to drag anyone else through this hell", then I'm not very empathethic.

 

[hrotha]

If he pulls a "I doped during this time, and I'm ashamed, really devastated and sorry... but don't want to drag anyone else through this hell", then I'm not very empathethic.

I think that's unjustified. Sure, it would mean this hypothetical rider *could* have done more, but still, how many riders admit to doping without even getting caught? None, that's it. This would still make this rider a hero, just a less perfect one.

 

[Caruut]

Wonder how many, in their darkest days, have considered it. I would certainly forgive him for not naming team-mates. They aren't just other riders, they're the guys you live with and work with every day.

 

[BotanyBay]

Then this is all for naught. Quit now.

 

[Martin318is]

and how would he be received if he said "I used PEDs for 2 of the last 5 years."? Would he get a collective, "yeah, right", or would people be inclined to believe him if he said the rest of his career was clean? Would it matter if he won races in the 'clean' years?

 

[veganrob]

I think that's unjustified. Sure, it would mean this hypothetical rider *could* have done more, but still, how many riders admit to doping without even getting caught? None, that's it. This would still make this rider a hero, just a less perfect one.

Big deal. If he doesn't name names then he is no better than a rider that got caught. He made his money, got his fame and is moving on. What about trying to make something better when one leaves?

 

[131313]

I think that's unjustified. Sure, it would mean this hypothetical rider *could* have done more, but still, how many riders admit to doping without even getting caught? None, that's it. This would still make this rider a hero, just a less perfect one.

There actually was 1 rider who's done this: Jerome Chiotti. He admitted it when he was under no suspicion, no investigation...he answered an interviewer's question honestly when asked if he doped. He said "yes".

So, his case comes pretty close to paralleling the OP's hypothetical. He was a world champion, and he gave up his jersey--and his job (he was fired by his Giant right after the admission).

He's pretty much the only doper for whom I have a lot of respect. He truly had nothing to gain from the admission except his self-respect, so good for him.

 

[The Hitch]

There actually was 1 rider who's done this: Jerome Chiotti. He admitted it when he was under no suspicion, no investigation...he answered an interviewer's question honestly when asked if he doped. He said "yes".

So, his case comes pretty close to paralleling the OP's hypothetical. He was a world champion, and he gave up his jersey--and his job (he was fired by his Giant right after the admission).

He's pretty much the only doper for whom I have a lot of respect. He truly had nothing to gain from the admission except his self-respect, so good for him.

What a hero.

Thanks for the story.

 

[Maxiton]

Ok so hear it goes. I’m a long time lurker and this is only my second posting but I wanted to pose the following hypothetical situation. (please go easy on me)

What would happen if a well known current rider, from a top tier team, admitted using all kinds of PEDs/blood doping over the last 5 or so years?

How would he be treated by his team/the peloton/the UCI/his fans/cycling fans in general and even here at the clinic? What might the long term repercussions of his actions be for the sport of cycling?

Some things to bear in mind about this fictional rider.

1. He has been riding professionally for 5 or 6 years and still has a few good years racing left in him.
2. He’s a popular rider and seen as a generally all right guy.
3. He comes from the fictional country of Belfrancery.
4. He has maybe 1 classics win to his name, a stage win in a grand tour, a couple of top 10 places in some bigger stage races and a few minor race victories.
5. He has never been tested positive for anything or even come close to it.
6. When coming clean he details everything, spills the beans on all those that have helped him over the years and implicates a few other riders.

Let’s face it we all would love someone like this guy to have the guts to do this. But what if this actually happened? Would we love him or hate him? Would he even be allowed to get back on his bike again?

Sorry if this has been covered before but I couldn’t find it doing a quick search. Mods please feel free to delete this thread if it has.

Cheers

He would definitely be banned for life, no question about it. If for some reason they couldn't give him a literal ban, it would be a de facto ban, but in any case he'd never work in the pro cycling world again.

 

[hrotha]

Big deal. If he doesn't name names then he is no better than a rider that got caught. He made his money, got his fame and is moving on. What about trying to make something better when one leaves?

He's no better? That's absurd. He made his money, got his fame and is giving it up willingly just for the sake of honesty. In this hypothetical scenario, I thought it's pretty clear he was still a pro, still competitive and still with many years of riding ahead of him. You think naming names is easy? Would you do it? That's a very haughty thing to believe. Are you an inherently better person than 99.9% of pro cyclists? I doubt it.

There actually was 1 rider who's done this: Jerome Chiotti. He admitted it when he was under no suspicion, no investigation...he answered an interviewer's question honestly when asked if he doped. He said "yes".

So, his case comes pretty close to paralleling the OP's hypothetical. He was a world champion, and he gave up his jersey--and his job (he was fired by his Giant right after the admission).

He's pretty much the only doper for whom I have a lot of respect. He truly had nothing to gain from the admission except his self-respect, so good for him.

Wow, I didn't know that (but then again I know very little about MTB). Thanks. So yeah, I definitely have more respect for him than for any other doper.

 

[pmcg76]

Big deal. If he doesn't name names then he is no better than a rider that got caught. He made his money, got his fame and is moving on. What about trying to make something better when one leaves?

What if the rider admitted to doping in public but said he had spoken to all the relevant authorities, UCI, WADA, Police etc naming suppliers, team-mates, Directeurs sportfis, everyone involved in the whole mess but wasnt naming them in public. Would that suffice.

 

[veganrob]

What if the rider admitted to doping in public but said he had spoken to all the relevant authorities, UCI, WADA, Police etc naming suppliers, team-mates, Directeurs sportfis, everyone involved in the whole mess but wasnt naming them in public. Would that suffice.

Absolutely. That is what I am talking about.

 

[veganrob]

He's no better? That's absurd. He made his money, got his fame and is giving it up willingly just for the sake of honesty. In this hypothetical scenario, I thought it's pretty clear he was still a pro, still competitive and still with many years of riding ahead of him. You think naming names is easy? Would you do it? That's a very haughty thing to believe. Are you an inherently better person than 99.9% of pro cyclists? I doubt it.



Would I name names? Yes

Did I say I was better? No

You doubt it. You are an idiot.

 

[hrotha]

Would I name names? Yes

Did I say I was better? No

You doubt it. You are an idiot.

First off, did I insult you? Real mature way to debate.

Secondly, how do you know? Do you have any idea of what something like that would entail? It's not that easy. And yes, by saying you would definitely do it, and that anyone who didn't is no better than a regular doper, you are implying you are better than them. If it was that easy, more people would do it. It takes real heroism.

 

[B_Ugli]

In answer to your question I think such an individual would be a hero but he would pretty much have to turn his back on cycling altogether after such an admission.

The problem is that there is a discrediting and smear machine that goes into overdrive whenever such a person speaks out. Politically or financially driven this is always the end result.

They would have to back up their admission with a high degree of personal credability in everything else they say, backed up by nothing less than 100% evidence for every allegation. Short of wandering around with a microphone and camera attached to their person for some weeks, months and years prior to allegations I dont see how they could do this.

Cycling has never been a clean sport and never will be. What gets on peoples nerves (including mine) is the week in week out amount of riders who perpetuate the problem by distancing themselves from the cheats when they get busted but at the same time hero worship highly suspect riders and managers and even continue to ride for them. There exists in cycling today this no mans land/grey area of having never tested positive, but never claimed to have ridden clean and never been outspoken about cheats and frustratingly there are a lot of riders who take this see no evil speak no evil stance...................until they test positive.

 

[veganrob]

First off, did I insult you? Real mature way to debate.

Secondly, how do you know? Do you have any idea of what something like that would entail? It's not that easy. And yes, by saying you would definitely do it, and that anyone who didn't is no better than a regular doper, you are implying you are better than them. If it was that easy, more people would do it. It takes real heroism.

You are way off. YOu are jumping to conclusions about me when you don't even know me.
I know how difficult it can be because I have been through it. I gave up a career I loved because of the corruptness of it. I tried to maintain my morals and integrity but when I started to waver I knew it was time for me to leave. And I was a success. And I did go to authorities on the issues to expose it and am still involved in outing the truth. So don't give me your BS.
And yes, you did insult me by challenging my integrity. And I don't take back my comment however immature it may be.

 

[henryg]

He would need to collect a lot of evidence. Go to the cops with it and then come clean. That would pre-empt the lying, crazy person campaign.

Never going to happen. Hard to turn on the guys you ride with as they are trying to make a living and support families in an unforgiving, dangerous and tough sport.

 

[Caruut]

You are way off. YOu are jumping to conclusions about me when you don't even know me.
I know how difficult it can be because I have been through it. I gave up a career I loved because of the corruptness of it. I tried to maintain my morals and integrity but when I started to waver I knew it was time for me to leave. And I was a success. And I did go to authorities on the issues to expose it and am still involved in outing the truth. So don't give me your BS.
And yes, you did insult me by challenging my integrity. And I don't take back my comment however immature it may be.

An idiot is not made by one conclusion jumped to. Your post definitely came across to me like that, though now you say a bit more about yourself, it seems like you know better than most on this thread what it would be like.

If he knew about your personal situation, then of course what he said would be offensive. Why get offended when people assume you just an average guy, how are they to know any better until you tell them? Having done what you've done, you must have seen plenty of good people think about blowing the whistle and not do so - surely you would agree that saying "I would come clean" is far easier than actually doing so.