Riis says ... Schleck LIED ?!?!?

Jun 17, 2010
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Friends,

I don't usually post but, every time i see Riss's name I have to think ... Liar, thief, cheat !!!

The creep steals (by lying & using drugs) Indurain's only chance at 6 wins, then says (ala Landis) ... "come and get my jersey"....???

Is he still in the history book as a winner of the Tour???

The guy came from NOwhere and suddenly had AFTerburners ... then, the following year ... nothing!!! what crap ... it was then .. he is now!

And he deserves EVERYthing he gets ..... !!!

Witz
 
The first thing I thought when the news that the Schleck's lied broke was, I'll bet BR wasn't forthcoming with his intensions to bring AC into the Saxo Bank squad. It appeared that the Schleck's departure from Saxo opened the door for Riis to bring on AC. But it happened so fast that I would not be surprised if Riis had been talking to AC long BEFORE the Schleck's gave notice of their intent to leave the team. So if that's the case Riis has no right to complain.
 
Oct 8, 2010
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ItsWitz said:
Friends,

I don't usually post but, every time i see Riss's name I have to think ... Liar, thief, cheat !!!

The creep steals (by lying & using drugs) Indurain's only chance at 6 wins, then says (ala Landis) ... "come and get my jersey"....???

Is he still in the history book as a winner of the Tour???

Witz
Of course Riis is still listed as the official winner. It's not up to the Tour de France to make that determination, and the UCI never took any action. YOu can't just strip somebody of a title without a formal declaration or process.
 
ItsWitz said:
Friends,

I don't usually post but, every time i see Riss's name I have to think ... Liar, thief, cheat !!!

The creep steals (by lying & using drugs) Indurain's only chance at 6 wins, then says (ala Landis) ... "come and get my jersey"....???

Is he still in the history book as a winner of the Tour???

The guy came from NOwhere and suddenly had AFTerburners ... then, the following year ... nothing!!! what crap ... it was then .. he is now!

And he deserves EVERYthing he gets ..... !!!

Witz
Keep in mind that Riis also "developed" Andy into the talent he is today. Given Riis's history... Yeah.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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mr. tibbs said:
Keep in mind that Riis also "developed" Andy into the talent he is today.
Yeah Riis deserves a lot of credit for giving Fränk Schleck a chance (he had a lot of trouble trying to find a team), and for developing Andy's talent.

But let's be honest half of his team left, and it's probably NOT through no fault of his own.
 
Feb 14, 2010
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Wow. People defend the riders no matter what. Riis couldn't have been courting Contador in advance, because Saxo Bank only decided to continue sponsorship during the TdF when they found out Contador was a possibility. And Contador probably would have continued with Astana as his people said if the team hadn't messed up the equipment for the Time Trial yet again and made him suffer because they gave him wrong information about how close Schlecklet was to his time.

Riis is a team manager, and in that position has the same rights and responsibilities as any team manager. He can't just let things slide because he might have dome things as a rider. The OP seems to think that because of Riis' past, he has no right to impose rules on his employees, and they can lie to him as much as they want. A multi-million dollar organization with sponsors and a high media profile can't operate that way.

Bruyneel lies all the time, and contradicts himself in the press, but that doesn't mean that his employees are allowed to lie to him. Rassmussen lost his shot at the Tour de France not because he was caught doping, but because an announcer said during the Tour that he had been in Italy when he claimed to be in Mexico. Are you saying that if he was riding for Riis, his lying would have been OK?

The Schlecks lied, and you're not angry at them for lying to their employer, but upset with him for not keeping quiet about the lie? So Omerta extends beyond doping, and riders can say or do anything they please, but the people who pay their salaries don't have a right to the truth?

A lot of people here don't believe the detailed La Gazzetta dello Sport story about Schleck and O'Grady staggering in at five in the morning. They don't believe independent reports from various cities in Spain where real human beings not related to cycling say they saw those two guys and Cancellara out partying during the race. Some guy out on the town at his usual club sees a couple of pro cyclists show up during a race, and the word of him and others can't be trusted because the rider said things differently.

Cancellara bailed during a stage of the Vuelta and left the country without talking to his boss or anyone. People who aren't Riis say that Cancellara was negotiating with the new team in December 2009, while he still had TWO YEARS left on his contract. He had to act badly at the Vuelta to make it so Riis could no longer work with him, so he could get out of an agreement he had signed but had no intention of honoring. Then out of the blue he blames Riis and Contador for his leaving, not expecting that anyone would call shenanigans.

I don't know much about Riis, but I managed people for years, and have two Management degrees, and I know what it's like to have employees show up drunk, and lie, etc. I also know had employees lie to other employees about their own situation, knowing that as a responsible manager, I had to respect their privacy and the truth.

So in this case a boss was lied o, and people go ballistic not at the liar, but because they feel the guy deserves to be lied to? If so, you get what you deserve from this sport. I read tons of articles in tons of languages to get to the truth about the Vuelta story. I believe that three guys got drunk a number of times during the race, two got tossed out, and the third went AWOL. All three have since lied to the press, and dome so in a way to make other people look bad.

Go ahead and treat them like heroes, and believe whatever they say, even if they change their story, and pro cycling will keep on the way it is because no one holds anyone accountable.

And for people wondering about Bruyneel's lies, go look at Wheel Gate, and him telling the world that Contador didn't buy his own TT wheels, and then quietly telling Marca a couple of months later that Contador did, and including a lie as to the cover story. Another was during this Tour when Contador showed up at the Radio Shack bus with gifts of watches, and later the infamous photo was posted where it looked like Lance was screaming at Alberto during the race. Bruyneel said that Lance and Alberto talk to each other in the peloton all the time, and would talk to each other again the day Lance couldn't be bothered to accept the watch. When Lance got grilled over the photo, he said that he hadn't spoken to Contador in a year, and that even though it was a one time event, he couldn't recall what he had said.

People will continue to lie in the sport as long as journalists are willing to print anything they say, and fans will believe it. And threads like this one that attack a guy for something he did years ago because he went to the press and exposed the lies just perpetuate the problem.
 
Jul 2, 2009
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ItsWitz said:
The creep steals (by lying & using drugs) Indurain's only chance at 6 wins,
As Indurain himself points out in the latest edition of Pro Cycling magazine, he came 11th, not 2nd, so he wasn't robbed of anything.
 
Jul 23, 2009
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Amazing stuff. All those years of contract negotiations and nobody ever hid a hand of cards from Barney prior to 2010? If he's that naive when it comes to signing talent maybe I'll look him up and ask for a 2 year deal.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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theswordsman said:
The Schlecks lied, and you're not angry at them for lying to their employer, but upset with him for not keeping quiet about the lie?
Wrong - Bjarne Riis, who has every right to be royally p*ssed at the Schlecks, Andersen and everyone else, said that they lied. That doesn't mean they lied. You complain that people side with the riders, but you don't realize that you side with Riis. Ultimately it comes down to statement against statement, nothing can ever be proved, so you can't say other people are wrong just because they choose to believe the Schlecks, just as you choose to believe Riis.

It is also not clear what exactly they are supposed to have lied about, since no one knows what exactly Riis asked them. In the Cyclingnews article, it only says: "Riis said that he heard rumours in the spring of this year that the Schleck brothers would leave for a new team. He asked them directly if it was true, but said they denied it."

When did he ask this? If he asked in spring "Are you leaving for a new team?", then the only valid answer could have been "No clue. We have other offers, which we are not going to discuss with you, but no one knows how anything is gonna work out, including you, since you have big trouble trying to find a sponsor". Much later in the year (on June 30th) Andy stated him and Fränk had four offers: one from Bjarne, one from Andersen and 2 unknown ones (http://www.cyclismactu.net/news-transfert_andy_schleck___4_options_pour_2011-7033.html)

Unless he lied (which you will probably be enclined to believe), this means that nothing was decided at that point (which fits in with Vinokourov's post-TdF comments about signing the Schlecks for Astana), and that the Schlecks could not have lied to Riis about leaving for another team, cause they simply didn't know yet.

A lot of people here don't believe the detailed La Gazzetta dello Sport story about Schleck and O'Grady staggering in at five in the morning.
I have posted this link in response to a similar statement of yours in another thread and you ignored it or else didn't see it. So I'm going to post it again and hope you see it this time:

“It doesn’t matter if it was one drink or ten,” Riis told the media after today’s stage, “or if he was out until five in the morning and that’s between us anyway, rules are made to be kept. I’m not here to give any explanations or further details. What actually happened will stay between us.”

Two pretty long sentences there, but the only part anyone seemed to hear was “five in the morning”; nobody seemed to notice the bit where he said: “or if he was out until.”

So, according to those four words, and ignoring the rest of the statement, Andy Schleck was out until 5am the night before a Vuelta stage! I’m not surprised Riis sent him home!

And wasn’t there something there about him having ten drinks? Jeez, he had ten drinks and then stayed out ‘til five! Fire him, no shoot him, on the spot Bjarne.

Hmm, what Riis actually said there was “mind your own business”, but nobody heard him.


Read more: http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/5580/Bjarne-Riis-and-the-Schleck-boys-The-end-of-the-affair.aspx#ixzz14TESIavY
They don't believe independent reports from various cities in Spain where real human beings not related to cycling say they saw those two guys and Cancellara out partying during the race. Some guy out on the town at his usual club sees a couple of pro cyclists show up during a race, and the word of him and others can't be trusted because the rider said things differently.
"Some guy", and "others" - sounds like really credible sources. Have you personally interviewed this "guy", verified La Gazzetta's source? I acknowledge the fact that this "guy" and these significant others might be "real human beings", but at the same time I can't help but feel like there is a possibility that somehwere someone made it all up.

People who aren't Riis say that Cancellara was negotiating with the new team in December 2009, while he still had TWO YEARS left on his contract.
Those "people" are actually just one person, namely Marc Biver, who is a rather questionable figure in cycling. After the Astana fiasco he vowed to never get back into cycling again; then in January all of a sudden he is supposed to be the main man behind this big project, whereas now he has nothing at all to do with it anymore. Makes me think he never had anything to do with it to begin with.

I read tons of articles in tons of languages to get to the truth about the Vuelta story.
You already proved the usefulness of your Google-Translate-Searches when you proclaimed Schleck and O'Grady were smoking pot, when really it was just a danish expression which neither you nor Google Translate knew.

I believe that three guys got drunk a number of times during the race, two got tossed out, and the third went AWOL. All three have since lied to the press, and dome so in a way to make other people look bad.
You have every right to believe this, but you try to make it soung like it's the truth and everyone else is stupid for disagreeing with you. I believe differently, but I don't pretend to know the truth, because no one other than the people involved does, even after reading over 150 articles, as you claim to have done.
 
Aug 11, 2009
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ItsWitz said:
Friends,

I don't usually post but, every time i see Riss's name I have to think ... Liar, thief, cheat !!!

The creep steals (by lying & using drugs) Indurain's only chance at 6 wins, then says (ala Landis) ... "come and get my jersey"....???

Is he still in the history book as a winner of the Tour???

The guy came from NOwhere and suddenly had AFTerburners ... then, the following year ... nothing!!! what crap ... it was then .. he is now!

And he deserves EVERYthing he gets ..... !!!

Witz
First, check out the "Indurain's Physiology" thread and consider the fact that Indurain worked extensively with doping doctors. Then, consider the common sense point that the year was 1996. If you're still irate about a doper beating Big Mig, then I guess we're at an impasse.

As for Riis coming from "nowhere," he won Giro and Tour stages in 1993 before finishing 5th in the Tour, and then he finished 3rd in the 1995 Tour; his "nothing" after the Tour win included his subsequent Amstel Gold victory.
 
theswordsman said:
I don't know much about Riis, but I managed people for years, and have two Management degrees, and I know what it's like to have employees show up drunk, and lie, etc. I also know had employees lie to other employees about their own situation, knowing that as a responsible manager, I had to respect their privacy and the truth.
Hey I'm with you brother, "the paid enemy" I used to call my employees.

However not all lies are the same. When your wife asks whether her backside looks a bit fat in that dress there is only one answer you can give. If you as an employer are thinking about laying off staff, you don't tell them. You are just thinking about it. It might not happen. If you tell them anything they will lose all motivation and start looking elsewhere. If they ask you about it, you are a bit vague but you don't tell them what you're really thinking.

I think this is what happened with the Schlecks.

They were thinking about it, they were having a few discussions, making a few plans etc, but couldn't tell BR at the time because it may not happen or they might still change their minds.

Yes Bjarne should just take it on the chin and move on. I can't believe that Bjarne hasn't done something similar at some point. None of us are that perfect.
 
Sep 25, 2009
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@ theswordsman,

your post is too insightful for this place.

my personal attitude towards riis the manager is not coloured by his past doping . in stead, i always look into the merits/ demerits of his actions and statements. and what i see is a mixed record. whilst i supported his sending andy home during the vuelta, i don’t think he’d do that during the tour. long story short, riis is a hard man and experienced manager who isn’t adverse to self-serving statements. he also seems a tad too direct - a trait characteristic to many nordic people. imo, he should have declined strong public statement about the schlecks lying though it’s most likely the truth.
 
Aug 11, 2009
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python said:
also seems a tad too direct - a trait characteristic to many nordic people.
Well, then based on your stereotype things should only get more interesting from here. Not only do we have Riis badmouthing people, but we've got two Danish managers on the other end of it (i.e. Brian Nygaard & Kim Andersen). I guess we should expect nothing less than a tactless back-and-forth to color the 2011 pre-season.
 
Seems like the majority of the team bailed because Riis was just like them, sell out to the highest bidder.

The Shlecks probably got wind of Riis romancing Contador, and realized they'd be riding in support of Team Clen. After all Andy and Bert are buddies.

Cancellara flipped when he got wind of this and felt like last nights red light date (they don't let you write W***e [hor] on CN):

"Saxo Bank team boss Bjarne Riis may be willing to let one of his top riders out of his contract, but if anyone wants time trial world champion Fabian Cancellara, it will come at the steep price of €3 million."

and they all went Maca Loca!

"It seems the sponsorship from Maca Loca has facilitated the arrival of Cancellara to the team by covering the cost of his 1.83 million Euro contract buy-out payment to Saxo Bank."
 
Jul 6, 2010
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All I can say is that if you've got a succesful team with good morale, then the DS would know about what offers are being proffered.

The fact that the Schlecks et al were working behind the scenes means that the scene was going to fold, or if not fold be in a state of rebuilding. No one with aspirations of greatness is going to hitch their wagon to that star so late in the signing season.

Also, it could mean that they didn't have a great relationship with BR...
 
Mar 12, 2009
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JMBeaushrimp said:
Also, it could mean that they didn't have a great relationship with BR...
Really, after 7 and 5 years with Riis one would think the Schlecks had a very good relationship with him?
But it seems like, the once life time banned doper Kim A., had even better relationship with the bro's and Cance than Riis... ;)
 
Jul 6, 2010
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Being treated well, and paid astronomically, is one thing. The internal functioning of the team is another. I've never worked with BR so I'm speculating. What I do know is that riders with a good relationship with their DS tend to put their cards on the table. Sure, they may be anxious about bringing it up, but they will. It gives you an objective place to work from, assuming they want to stay with your program. If not, they drop the bomb, and unfortunately that tends to be at the last minute...
 
Mar 12, 2009
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JMBeaushrimp said:
Being treated well, and paid astronomically, is one thing. The internal functioning of the team is another. I've never worked with BR so I'm speculating. What I do know is that riders with a good relationship with their DS tend to put their cards on the table. Sure, they may be anxious about bringing it up, but they will. It gives you an objective place to work from, assuming they want to stay with your program. If not, they drop the bomb, and unfortunately that tends to be at the last minute...
I don't understand what you mean, Fränk worked with Riis for 7 years, Cance 6 and Andy 5, and they have been pretty good, no?
Surely that says a lot?
 
Jul 6, 2010
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All I'm wondering is how happy could they've been on the team to leave in the way they did. It doesn't show a lot of respect for BR.
 
Apr 14, 2010
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pedaling squares said:
Amazing stuff. All those years of contract negotiations and nobody ever hid a hand of cards from Barney prior to 2010? If he's that naive when it comes to signing talent maybe I'll look him up and ask for a 2 year deal.
+1

Polyarmour said:
However not all lies are the same. ... If you as an employer are thinking about laying off staff, you don't tell them. You are just thinking about it. It might not happen. If you tell them anything they will lose all motivation and start looking elsewhere. If they ask you about it, you are a bit vague but you don't tell them what you're really thinking.

I think this is what happened with the Schlecks.

They were thinking about it, they were having a few discussions, making a few plans etc, but couldn't tell BR at the time because it may not happen or they might still change their minds.

Yes Bjarne should just take it on the chin and move on. I can't believe that Bjarne hasn't done something similar at some point. None of us are that perfect.
Exactly. In fact, if the Schlecks were so 'perfect' as to answer BR honestly (eg. "yes we're looking at another team but we don't know now if it will get backing and go ahead"), it would probably be TOO honest. Very admirable behaviour, but actually not something which would help them through their immediate challenges (eg. the 2010 TdF).

So BR has a great result from that race and other early season results (which helped him keep his sponsor!), largely because everything was running smoothly.

Honestly, it's a very rare employee-boss relationship when the employee can say "i'm thinking of going to a competitor" and everything stays cool. 90% of the time or more, people find their next job and make sure it's in the bag before they tell their current boss.

So I think BR is either expecting way too much, or just playing media games for whatever reason (eg. taking some of the focus of Berto.)
 
Jun 12, 2010
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Isnt this all best sumed up with the saying " all`s fair in love and war".

Riis is a self confessed donkey turned race horse cheeting scum bag and loyalty and honour are as rare as hens teeth in the pro peloton.

Hardly worth a moments pondering.:rolleyes:
 

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