Road race disc brakes?

[stutue]

Anybody else looking forward to the implications of these (on high end machines)

Seems to me that it will be the wheel technology that will be revolutionised by this. No need for a brake track, and all energies go into thinking about wheel strength.

UCI to decide on legalising discs for road race in the autumn. If its a yes, I predict the biggest change in road machines since Sti.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Anybody else looking forward to the implications of these (on high end machines)

Seems to me that it will be the wheel technology that will be revolutionized by this. No need for a brake track, and all energies go into thinking about wheel strength.

UCI to decide on legalising discs for road race in the autumn. If its a yes, I predict the biggest change in road machines since Sti.

Since the derailleur..leessseee..disc brakes on MTB..wet, sloppy conditions, high possiblility to wack a wheel and still have brakes..hmmm..does not apply to the bike you mentioned.

Through axle, 140, 160, 180 rotors, reservoirs in the hoods, heat build up, warped rotors, no brakes...gonna be fun to watch. Mavic neutral support VAN, cuz they will need so many wheels..and the 'snick, snick, snick' of noisy and squealing brakes...comedy central.

Saying wet discs 'work better' than those very simple, very cheap, very easy to work on, calipers, doesn't mean calipers work poorly, are vague, unreliable..they are not.

Carbon wheels? Very common in the professional peloton, teeny, tiny sliver of the cycling public.

Is it gonna happen? Yep, is it a good idea? Nope, it is an answer to a not asked question other than how do manufacturers and marketeers come up with marginal to non sensical 'solutions' to how do I sell more bicycles.

Is that Ducati or Subaru WRX with 6 speed paddle shifters and HUGE whale tail needed for a trip to the A&P? Nope but you see it.

Some tandems, touring bikes, dirt bikes, commuters..yep, maybe but for the $15,000 carbon wunder bike for that 'enthusiast for his coffee shop on sunday and then a casual 20 miler, once every two weeks??..ridiculous but you will see them next buying season...

 

[stutue]

Rims that don't wear out?

Factory wheels that have a decent lifespan?

Brakes that work in the wet?

I hear what you are saying, but I ride a lot of miles, and a few of the guys I ride with are already using discs and wouldn't be without them

 

[winkybiker]

It'll come for sure. Just follow the money. But I don't want nor need discs on my summer road bike. I'll have them on my next commuter, though (but I just keep fixing up my old one, so that might never happen).

Points for discs:

Work well in the wet
Different (better?) rims possible. Especially carbon clinchers for the freds

Points against:

Ugly as sin
Heavy (but will get lighter, I think - especially when considered partenered with lighter rims).
Expensive
Non-aerodynamic
Unresolved compatibility issues, both disc size, offset, and fork/axle/QR issues
Warped rotors
Dragging brakes
Catastrophic failure on long descents (especially for freds who drag their brakes)
SRAM ones don't work in the cold
SRAM hydraulic hoods make me want to puke my guts up, sir
Ugly as sin

STI was indeed a revolution. Clipless pedals? Yes. Electronic shifting? No. Carbon everything? I'm not so sure (but I do have lots of carbon).

 

[stutue]

Carbon has become a fad, hasn't it.

'Carbon' is now a marketing word like the word 'Digital'.

I don't disagree with any of your points but I am quite excited to see where this goes. I'm wondering whether it could change the notion of a 'winter bike'

 

[winkybiker]

Carbon has become a fad, hasn't it.

'Carbon' is now a marketing word like the word 'Digital'.

I don't disagree with any of your points but I am quite excited to see where this goes. I'm wondering whether it could change the notion of a 'winter bike'

I don't think carbon is a fad. It is a great material for building lots of stuff. Light, stiff, strong, durable and not too expensive.

I'd love a disc-braked winter bike. A couple of guys I work with are using disc-braked CX bikes for commuter bikes. We are in Vancouver where it has been known to rain a bit, especially in the winter. I think they've made a good choice.

 

[stutue]

When I say 'fad' what i meant was that it has become a marketing point in some products where its use has no advantage.....or indeed becomes a disadvantage.

Carbon wrapped bars/stems/seatposts? Pointless.

Carbon front mech cages? Ditched by programs in favour of metal ones because they flexed.

There has even been clothing marketed with carbon weaved into it. 'Carbon infused fabric'

http://www.backcountry.com/descente-c6-carbon-cycling-jersey-short-sleeve-mens

 

[winkybiker]

When I say 'fad' what i meant was that it has become a marketing point in some products where its use has no advantage.....or indeed becomes a disadvantage.

Carbon wrapped bars/stems/seatposts? Pointless.

Carbon front mech cages? Ditched by programs in favour of metal ones because they flexed.

There has even been clothing marketed with carbon weaved into it. 'Carbon infused fabric'

http://www.backcountry.com/descente-c6-carbon-cycling-jersey-short-sleeve-mens

Fair enough. It does get used in inappropriate applications. Example: Carbon clinchers are heavier, have poorer braking and failure risk, when compared to aluminium rims "but at least they're expensive".

 

[stutue]

I don't think carbon is a fad. It is a great material for building lots of stuff. Light, stiff, strong, durable and not too expensive.

A couple of guys I work with are using disc-braked CX bikes for commuter bikes. We are in Vancouver where it has been known to rain a bit, especially in the winter. I think they've made a good choice.

This is partly what I'm thinking about. Feather light carbon frame that can take 25mm tyres and slim guards. Light but strong carbon wheels. No worry's about rim wear so wheels could be long term investment.

Would transform my winter riding

 

[winkybiker]

This is partly what I'm thinking about. Feather light carbon frame that can take 25mm tyres and slim guards. Light but strong carbon wheels. No worry's about rim wear so wheels could be long term investment.

Would transform my winter riding

Yes, I just freaking hate the shuddering, squealing, useless, powerless cantis on my tourer.

 

[stutue]

....especially if its wet.

I remember descending a hill in a deluge. There was so much water on the road that any that was wiped off by the brake blocks was replaced instantly. There was literally no brake power. Scary.

Right about the carbon clincher rims but at least they make that cool buzzy sound. That must be worth a few hundred pounds

 

[avanti]

Yes, I just freaking hate the shuddering, squealing, useless, powerless cantis on my tourer.

That was an issue with my CX bike canti brakes until I started fitting new pads every two years and adding toe-in. Worked great in the rain.

 

[ustabe]

When I was young and hard I rarely let bad weather keep me in, especially in regard to braking. I was also using a lot repaired tubulars and could have never afforded disk brakes anyway.

In racing the issues are maintenance, interchangeability, and safety. The mechanics have to keep these things bled, the rotors have to be straight, and all those wheels need to be interchangeable. And then there is rider safety and all those pileups--those rotors are sharp and they get hot. Maybe if the calipers had little roll cages . . .

Disks do solve the carbon clincher dilemma, but in the racing context I don't think the advantages outweigh the problems.

 

[stutue]

I think you are quite right, but then the manufacturers make their money by selling kit to punters like me rather than to pro teams or in all honesty anybody who would use them to race.

The issues you mention are real, but I'm curious to see what a bit of human ingenuity can do

 

[King Boonen]

In racing the issues are maintenance, interchangeability, and safety. The mechanics have to keep these things bled, the rotors have to be straight, and all those wheels need to be interchangeable. And then there is rider safety and all those pileups--those rotors are sharp and they get hot. Maybe if the calipers had little roll cages . . .

Disks do solve the carbon clincher dilemma, but in the racing context I don't think the advantages outweigh the problems.

Bleeding is both easy and almost never necessary, there is also the fact that they are much more powerful. They would probably require less maintenance than current breaks.

Rotors do not bend much, especially with hydraulic calipers where both pistons move, wheels going out of true are more likely to be the problem. It's not going to be an issue for replacement wheels, they will be straight (true and the discs), caliper positioning might cause some headaches but I don't think so.

Rotors won't be hot in a pile-up, they need to be used to be hot. As for sharp that's a good point, but you don't see loads of riders getting cut up by chain-rings and cassettes in a pile-up, I'd wager it'd be no where near as bad as the road-rash they get from the crash if it even happens. They could easily be rounded though, they don't need a sharp edge for breaking.


One issue is that they do need to be used to work well. They'll need to make sure they get the brake pad compound right to provide enough braking power but to work even if they haven't been used for a couple of hours.

 

[winkybiker]

That was an issue with my CX bike canti brakes until I started fitting new pads every two years and adding toe-in. Worked great in the rain.

New pads every two years? I fit 3 or 4 sets per year! Toe-in is OK in theory, but the pads just wear to parallel pretty much straight away in any case.

 

[ustabe]

I think you are quite right, but then the manufacturers make their money by selling kit to punters like me rather than to pro teams or in all honesty anybody who would use them to race.

The issues you mention are real, but I'm curious to see what a bit of human ingenuity can do

Don't sell yourself short. There are a lot of punters buying pretty fancy bikes, who can ride circles around me.

Yeah, who knows where ingenuity (and money) will take the sport. But I wouldn't be surprised if the punters and racers took off in completely different directions, either.

 

[stutue]

Its whatever they can sell, isn't it.

I'm certain there will be a market for sportive style bikes with discs. Those guys love kit!

 

[King Boonen]

For anyone who isn't fighting for the last little bit of weight reduction and aerodynamics I can see no draw-backs to disc brakes, with the caveat that they work well obviously. So basically any amateur.

For the average rider the increased stopping power and therefore reduced stopping distances massively outweigh any perceived problems.

Yes, I would say pros don't need them, but for the rest of us they offer big benefits.


Yes, it might be irritating that if you replace your frame you are forced to go to discs (although many mountain bike frames have been compatible with both for a long time, some still are). But once you change I'd wager you'll be a happy bunny.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Rims that don't wear out?

Factory wheels that have a decent lifespan?

Brakes that work in the wet?

I hear what you are saying, but I ride a lot of miles, and a few of the guys I ride with are already using discs and wouldn't be without them

Rims wear out from getting wacked, not side walls that wear out. I owned a bike shop for 13 years and I saw maybe 6 rims with the side wall worn thru..I built maybe 350 wheels per year..NO factory wheel has a decent lifespan because of above..wacking the rim..

Calipers on aluminum rims work fine..is the expense, complication, weight of wet discs 'worth' it to you? Maybe but they are a solution' seeking a problem for a dry day enthusiast's bike.

And amateurs with way powerful discs..first panic stop and over they go..great...

 

[Bustedknuckle]

When I was young and hard I rarely let bad weather keep me in, especially in regard to braking. I was also using a lot repaired tubulars and could have never afforded disk brakes anyway.

In racing the issues are maintenance, interchangeability, and safety. The mechanics have to keep these things bled, the rotors have to be straight, and all those wheels need to be interchangeable. And then there is rider safety and all those pileups--those rotors are sharp and they get hot. Maybe if the calipers had little roll cages . . .

Disks do solve the carbon clincher dilemma, but in the racing context I don't think the advantages outweigh the problems.

Can't wait for a wet disc equipped pro..who gets a flat..throws bike down for neutral wheel, wheel over head..lands on lever, pushes all the fluid out...oooppss..now need a new bike...arm up again...

 

[richwagmn]

For the average rider the increased stopping power and therefore reduced stopping distances massively outweigh any perceived problems.

They don't stop faster in the dry. Stopping is limited by the friction of the tire on the road surface. If you can lock up your tires, you've got more braking power than you need. And I can lock my tires just fine with my ultegra rim brakes.

 

[stutue]

Rims wear out from getting wacked, not side walls that wear out. I owned a bike shop for 13 years and I saw maybe 6 rims with the side wall worn thru..I built maybe 350 wheels per year..NO factory wheel has a decent lifespan because of above..wacking the rim..

Sure, but bike shop customers aren't a representative sample of cyclists. Enthusiasts do their own mechanics, including wheelbuilding . I don't think any of the guys I ride with ever use a bike shop other than maybe a once-in-a-lifetime job like bb shell facing, where the economics of tooling up for it aren't worth it.

I've yet to destroy a rim from a bump, but I'm a careful rider. Have to change a front wheel rim about every two years through brake wear. I'm not alone in this. On the events I ride, rims splitting through sidewall wear is not uncommon. Most of us get the calipers out when changing tyres.

Calipers on aluminum rims work fine..is the expense, complication, weight of wet discs 'worth' it to you? Maybe but they are a solution' seeking a problem for a dry day enthusiast's bike.

Agree with the last point, but I do have a use for them and I don't mind dry-day guys with fat wallets making this technology economically viable

 

[stutue]

Rims wear out from getting wacked, not side walls that wear out. I owned a bike shop for 13 years and I saw maybe 6 rims with the side wall worn thru..I built maybe 350 wheels per year..NO factory wheel has a decent lifespan because of above..wacking the rim..

Sure, but bike shop customers aren't a representative sample of cyclists. High-mileage ethusiasts do their own mechanics, including wheelbuilding so you wouldn't get them coming to your shop. I don't think any of the guys I ride with ever use a bike shop other than maybe a once-in-a-lifetime job like bb shell facing, where the economics of tooling up for it aren't worth it.

I've yet to destroy a rim from a bump, but I'm a careful rider. Have to change a front wheel rim about every two years through brake wear. I'm not alone in this. On the events I ride, rims splitting through sidewall wear is not uncommon. Most of us get the calipers out when changing tyres.

Calipers on aluminum rims work fine..is the expense, complication, weight of wet discs 'worth' it to you? Maybe but they are a solution' seeking a problem for a dry day enthusiast's bike.

Agree with the last point, but I do have a use for them and I don't mind dry-day guys with fat wallets making this technology economically viable

 

[stutue]

Rims wear out from getting wacked, not side walls that wear out. I owned a bike shop for 13 years and I saw maybe 6 rims with the side wall worn thru..I built maybe 350 wheels per year..NO factory wheel has a decent lifespan because of above..wacking the rim..

Sure, but bike shop customers aren't a representative sample of cyclists. High-mileage ethusiasts do their own mechanics, including wheelbuilding so you wouldn't get them coming to your shop. I don't think any of the guys I ride with ever use a bike shop other than maybe a once-in-a-lifetime job like bb shell facing, where the economics of tooling up for it aren't worth it.

I've yet to destroy a rim from a bump, but I'm a careful rider. Have to change a front wheel rim about every two years through brake wear. I'm not alone in this. On the events I ride, rims splitting through sidewall wear is not uncommon. Most of us get the calipers out when changing tyres.

Calipers on aluminum rims work fine..is the expense, complication, weight of wet discs 'worth' it to you? Maybe but they are a solution' seeking a problem for a dry day enthusiast's bike.

Agree with the last point, but I do have a use for them and I don't mind dry-day guys with fat wallets making this technology economically viable