Rujano's tests and road performances

[El Pistolero]

mod comment:This thread originated in the Dekker thread, and was split off after the Rujano discussion swamped the original topic. El Pistolero's post seems a good starting point.

Tests mean quite a lot when it comes to professional cycling. If Garmin got Dekker on a domestique's wage, after testing the hell out of him, they are probably pretty certain that they got a good deal. He might be able to turn those test results into race wins, in which case everyone would be happy. Or he might just be able to turn them into a lot of bottles fetched in hilly races, in which case Garmin will at least be satisfied. That's the benefit of getting him on what appears to be a domestique's wage: It will be very surprising if, given his tests, he doesn't at least perform as a useful domestique and so they aren't taking much of a gamble in terms of performance.

As for their ethical stance, they have always been very clear that they are not about only hiring riders who have never doped. Their stance is that they want to provide a doping-free environment for riders now. Dekker should fit in pretty comfortably alongside, for instance, Millar in that regard. In so far as they are taking a gamble however it is on this point.

According to Ryo, Rujano has better tests than Contador off the road lol.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

According to Ryo, Rujano has better tests than Contador off the road lol.

I don't think that's true. Not that I don't believe that Ryo would make some hyperbolic claim about a South American rider, obviously, but that I don't believe that Rujano has better test scores than Contador. But I'm completely certain that Rujano's test scores would make any team take a serious look at him, even if he didn't have some big results to his name.

Test results don't provide detailed prophecies of results. But they do, most of the time, tell you whether a rider is capable of being competitive and at roughly what sort of level. It would come as quite a surprise if either Contador or Rujano returned test results which said anything other than top level climber. Being capable of being competitive isn't the same as actually be competitive, mind you. It's a necessary but not sufficient condition for success.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

According to Ryo, Rujano has better tests than Contador off the road lol.

so? what is so strange about that? tests don't say everything. there is also huge mental factor but thomas has proven already as a younger to have been a winner and mentally strong and ambitios, like moving to italy at age 19. and before you start about cecchini, no cecchini had nothing to do with doping, even jaksche said that

 

[theyoungest]

According to Ryo, Rujano has better tests than Contador off the road lol.

... which wouldn't be that strange, if we're only talking about Watts per kg. The guy is about 15 kgs lighter than Contador, so in absolute Watts of course he won't be his equal.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

... which wouldn't be that strange, if we're only talking about Watts per kg. The guy is about 15 kgs lighter than Contador, so in absolute Watts of course he won't be his equal.

exactly. but in climbs would work for rujano advantage

 

[El Pistolero]

... which wouldn't be that strange, if we're only talking about Watts per kg. The guy is about 15 kgs lighter than Contador, so in absolute Watts of course he won't be his equal.

Contador puts out higher watts/kg then Rujano on the road.

 

[theyoungest]

Contador puts out higher watts/kg then Rujano on the road.

If Rujano can hold his wheel while he's going all out on the slopes of the Etna, which aren't particularly steep, I doubt that's true.

Contador can do it every day, however. He doesn't only putt out the Watts, he has the ability to recover as well. Rujano, a bit less so.

 

[El Pistolero]

If Rujano can hold his wheel while he's going all out on the slopes of the Etna, which aren't particularly steep, I doubt that's true.

Contador can do it every day, however. He doesn't only putt out the Watts, he has the ability to recover as well. Rujano, a bit less so.

It took 6 minutes 28 seconds for Alberto Contador to ride between km 6 and km 3 to the finish line, at the average speed of 28.1 km/h.

The VAM = 1821m/h on the average gradient of 6.5% required an average power output of 6.87 w/kg, equal to 426 watts assuming a body weight of 62 kg.

The ascent was affected by strong winds, therefore the expressed power was probably even higher, although it is quite difficult to quantify.

Furthermore, if we consider that the effort was done at above 1500m, where the partial pressure of oxygen is reduced by 19% compared to sea level, Alberto's performance over that distance is one of the best ones we've seen in the last few years.

In those 3 km, Contador gained 57" on his immediate chasers, that is 19" per km.
The group of with all the main rivals rode at a speed of 24.3 km/h, expressing a power that was 15.6% lower, equal to 5.79 w/kg.

Rujano was able to hold Contador's wheel for a bit, as drafting at such speeds would save him approximately 50 watts, expressing an average power of 6.06 w/kg, equal to 327w (assuming a body weight of 54 kg).

In the last 3 km of the stage, Alberto was not able to gain any more on the rivals, suggesting that the extraordinary performance of the previous 3 km was quite anaerobic, albeit supported by an exceptional aerobic power.

By Michele Ferrari

Now that's the reason why I don't give a damn about so called tests where we have 0 information on and rather look at results on the road.

Ps: do you honestly believe Rujano only weights 47kg?

 

[theyoungest]

Ps: do you honestly believe Rujano only weights 47kg?

The guy is ultra small, so yes.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Contador puts out higher watts/kg then Rujano on the road.

what is contaodrs wattage per kg weight then? I heard it was 7.3 or something like that. rujano has over 8.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

It took 6 minutes 28 seconds for Alberto Contador to ride between km 6 and km 3 to the finish line, at the average speed of 28.1 km/h.

The VAM = 1821m/h on the average gradient of 6.5% required an average power output of 6.87 w/kg, equal to 426 watts assuming a body weight of 62 kg.

The ascent was affected by strong winds, therefore the expressed power was probably even higher, although it is quite difficult to quantify.

Furthermore, if we consider that the effort was done at above 1500m, where the partial pressure of oxygen is reduced by 19% compared to sea level, Alberto's performance over that distance is one of the best ones we've seen in the last few years.

In those 3 km, Contador gained 57" on his immediate chasers, that is 19" per km.
The group of with all the main rivals rode at a speed of 24.3 km/h, expressing a power that was 15.6% lower, equal to 5.79 w/kg.

Rujano was able to hold Contador's wheel for a bit, as drafting at such speeds would save him approximately 50 watts, expressing an average power of 6.06 w/kg, equal to 327w (assuming a body weight of 54 kg).

In the last 3 km of the stage, Alberto was not able to gain any more on the rivals, suggesting that the extraordinary performance of the previous 3 km was quite anaerobic, albeit supported by an exceptional aerobic power.

By Michele Ferrari

Now that's the reason why I don't give a damn about so called tests where we have 0 information on and rather look at results on the road.

Ps: do you honestly believe Rujano only weights 47kg?

rujano is 48 kg. he is weight every day at giro because his whole shape peek program was build towards that.

I can't believe how deep you live in your own bs world. when facts come and smack you around.

rujano had a mechanicla in the final k and was already longer in the attack solo then contador was in the wind!! with his 48 kg frame and according to rujano self not even in topshape. that would come the next week, which is exatcly what happened n every race rujano was good at like vuelta colombia 2009 and giro 2005. but rujano is also lieing and you know everything better??

 

[El Pistolero]

Yeah, Rujano has amazing tests off the road, but always has an excuse for not performing on the road

Thanks for strengthening my argument that off the road tests aren't necessarily a good indicator for performing well on the road. Because we all know Rujano didn't win anything this season. As Contador with his "less good tests off the road" won the Giro, Catalonia, Murcia and did a top 5 in the Tour while Rujano has 1 "victory".

Ps: Contador spent more time in the wind if you didn't notice. And he quickly closed the gap with Rujano. In fact, the only reason why Rujano was still on Contador's wheel was because he anticipated and attacked before Contador did. Everyone knows that. You want to know facts? Contador pulled out bigger watts/kg during that Giro on every single important stage except Sestriere where he didn't bother to react to his attack.

 

[El Pistolero]

I don't think that's true. Not that I don't believe that Ryo would make some hyperbolic claim about a South American rider, obviously, but that I don't believe that Rujano has better test scores than Contador. But I'm completely certain that Rujano's test scores would make any team take a serious look at him, even if he didn't have some big results to his name.

Test results don't provide detailed prophecies of results. But they do, most of the time, tell you whether a rider is capable of being competitive and at roughly what sort of level. It would come as quite a surprise if either Contador or Rujano returned test results which said anything other than top level climber. Being capable of being competitive isn't the same as actually be competitive, mind you. It's a necessary but not sufficient condition for success.

Here's a different analogy then:

Quickstep refused to give Sagan a contract after some tests. He almost gave up hopes of road cycling until Liquigas gave him a contract.

Ps: I'm not making fun of Rujano, just annoying Ryo. Anyone capable of pulling out 6.1 w/kg on mountains deserves to be called a decent climber.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Yeah, Rujano has amazing tests off the road, but always has an excuse for not performing on the road

Thanks for strengthening my argument that off the road tests aren't necessarily a good indicator for performing well on the road. Because we all know Rujano didn't win anything this season. As Contador with his "less good tests off the road" won the Giro, Catalonia, Murcia and did a top 5 in the Tour while Rujano has 1 "victory".

Ps: Contador spent more time in the wind if you didn't notice. And he quickly closed the gap with Rujano. In fact, the only reason why Rujano was still on Contador's wheel was because he anticipated and attacked before Contador did. Everyone knows that. You want to know facts? Contador pulled out bigger watts/kg during that Giro on every single important stage except Sestriere where he didn't bother to react to his attack.

rujano actually had a huge gap to contadors group. I remember people here laughing at rujano's attack on etna in the wind and that it seemed he fell flat in the wind. but contador put out an impressive attack beyond anything and it took minutes before he could actually see rujano.

rujano is vulnerable I see that 100% but in pure talent and output he is a better climber than contador. I will never forget rujano's face after etna where he himself couldn't believe he could follow contador so easily. it's just ashame he became sick the next week and was on anti biotics. 2012 giro though seems perfectely fit for rujano and I hope for a heatwave in italy in may

 

[Vino attacks everyone]

rujano actually had a huge gap to contadors group. I remember people here laughing at rujano's attack on etna in the wind and that it seemed he fell flat in the wind. but contador put out an impressive attack beyond anything and it took minutes before he could actually see rujano.

rujano is vulnerable I see that 100% but in pure talent and output he is a better climber than contador. I will never forget rujano's face after etna where he himself couldn't believe he could follow contador so easily. it's just ashame he became sick the next week and was on anti biotics. 2012 giro though seems perfectely fit for rujano and I hope for a heatwave in italy in may

output mybe, but talent? honestly, i am to a fan of south americans, but noone is a bigger talent than Contador