Schleck 7w/kg

[wannab]

Greetings, as a fan of the clinic I'm writing my first post (even a thread, think big) after being a lifetime interested reader of ya'lls work of life.
To cut the chitchat, I recently found this interesting docu of Shleck.

Why I found it interesting (beside its a good docu overall) ?
He's giving watts here and there, which to me is always interesting (like the Sørensen file http://home.trainingpeaks.com/races/saxo-bank-sungard/2011-tour-de-france/stage-14.aspx).
I'm not blindly believing anyone's numbers but I think it are good indicators.

Long story short, watch http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLApkiOZ01I

points of interest:
30m10 - says he weighs 69kg (not tour form, probably -2kg)
30m40 - did his best TT ever (according to him) in last years tour (2010) at 412w
(Results: 1 Fabian Cancellara (Swi) Team Saxo Bank***** 01:00:56
44 Andy Schleck (Lux) Team Saxo Bank 0:06:14)
412w/67kg = 1h7m10s @ 6,15w at the end of the tour, not bad indeeds
30m40 too - with new TT position that would be 440w (+- 6,5w/kg)
34m55 - tour form = 7w/kg, he's at 6,4 atm
35m12 - coach: 2kg less, +10watt, so that would be 6,7w/kg (wow!)

Ok thats not 7w/kg but its freak, we all know 7w/kg is doped to the gills (I count 6,7 to be the same as 7 )

Since we know sorensen is around 6,25 w/kg thanks to his stupidly published srm file imo (wrong calibrated,etc. etc. who will tell, I think its not far off), so 6,7 seems about right for top contender then.

What I also found interesting is how Voight talks about schlecks as freaks (video 44m52), something like: when we're at full gas, you guys are at 75%.


So here it is, not so short story after all. Anyway

I was wondering what you guys think about these numbers?

 

[Don Johnson]

Frank and Andy are great riders. There are natural variations occuring naturally with riders, therefore the Schlecks' are clean, Andy (and Armstrong,) first clean tour winners, since LeMond.

 

[wannab]

Frank and Andy are great riders. There are natural variations occuring naturally with riders, therefore the Schlecks' are clean, Andy (and Armstrong,) first clean tour winners, since LeMond.

gosh I feel so dumb your absolutely right, where was my mind, questioning schleck ... Never questioned armstrong tho, I know for fact he's the first clean tour winner since lemond (facts4lance.com, whut? RIP? well it's generally accepted anyway).

 

[Don Johnson]

I think what needs to be looked at is how close Contador and Andys' numbers were in the 2010 tour. That is the only way to really tell. Their TTs were pretty close, and Andy could not drop Contador in that tour.

 

[BroDeal]

Now the sock puppet has switched into full troll mode.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Is this another one of ChrisE's sock puppets?

 

[wannab]

sorry I don't follow on the puppets thingy. I just found it interesting andy literally saying tour form is 7w/kg thats all

 

[Caruut]

sorry I don't follow on the puppets thingy. I just found it interesting andy literally saying tour form is 7w/kg thats all

Don Johnson is widely believed to be another user using a different account. A sockpuppet is simply what that's called.

 

[Nilsson]

Those numbers are a lot of crap. Maybe in peak form he can manage an FTP around 6.3 w/kg, but definitely not in January - especially with Andy's low base level...

 

[pedaling squares]

Another decent thread that circled the bowl by post #2.

 

[Bumeington]

Interesting docu, thanks. Couple of points:

Perhaps 440W vs 412W isn't an increase in power but the new position should be faster so that 412W in the new position is like 440W in the old position (somehow I doubt this because Andy's position still sucks)

The 7W/kg and 6.4W/kg numbers: Does he ever imply these are FTPs? Perhaps they are using a different testing protocol.

The 412W number is the only one I find belivable, ok it's at the end of the tour, but it's also in a TT not at the end of a 150-200km stage.

34:00 is my favourite - doesn't like downhill finishes

 

[wannab]

The 7W/kg and 6.4W/kg numbers: Does he ever imply these are FTPs? Perhaps they are using a different testing protocol.

Indeed, I was doubting to mention this too.
Then again, the 412w he states was for 1h07m10s (6,15w/kg) which is at least FTP at the end of the tour (surely there must be some fatigue).


I just found out Sorensen's 2010 TT was 1h05m42s @ 5.76 w/kg according to trainingpeaks.
If all is true, andy's TT position sucks big time (or just fatigue, or lying)

Trainingpeaks also lists sorrensen's ftp +- 6,15w/kg for that tour (his tt seems to confirm that sort or less). Andy's ftp surely is higher than sorrensen's, we know that.

 

[Parrulo]

there was massive change of wind for the last guys departing, that's why every single top GC rider finished minutes and minutes behind cancellara, even top itt guys like contador and menchov. so that's explains why even tho he put out more power then sorensen, his time was much slower

 

[Nilsson]

Indeed, I was doubting to mention this too.
Then again, the 412w he states was for 1h07m10s (6,15w/kg) which is at least FTP at the end of the tour (surely there must be some fatigue).


I just found out Sorensen's 2010 TT was 1h05m42s @ 5.76 w/kg according to trainingpeaks.
If all is true, andy's TT position sucks big time (or just fatigue, or lying)

Trainingpeaks also lists sorrensen's ftp +- 6,15w/kg for that tour (his tt seems to confirm that sort or less). Andy's ftp surely is higher than sorrensen's, we know that.

There are some things you forget.

- Sörensens FTP was in fact reduced from 400 Watt to 375 Watt, what brings him to 5.85 w/kg (an therefore very close to the output in the 1-hour time trial he showed later on)

- Andy has a bad TT-position. It's always a choice between aerodynamics and a position which allows you to putt out some Watts. Andy can probably go more aerodynamic, but it will cost him comfort and power, and thus probably result in an even worse result...

- That time trial was (very) corrupted by changing winds for the last (20?) riders. So it's very difficult to compare results. Denis Menchov, for example, lost almost 4 minutes, but was one of the strongest guys out there that day - and should have been very close to finish in the top 3.

 

[LaFlorecita]

With those watts he should be able to beat Alberto relatively easily.

 

[wannab]

There are some things you forget.

- Sörensens FTP was in fact reduced from 400 Watt to 375 Watt, what brings him to 5.85 w/kg (an therefore very close to the output in the 1-hour time trial he showed later on)

- Andy has a bad TT-position. It's always a choice between aerodynamics and a position which allows you to putt out some Watts. Andy can probably go more aerodynamic, but it will cost him comfort and power, and thus probably result in an even worse result...

- That time trial was (very) corrupted by changing winds for the last (20?) riders. So it's very difficult to compare results. Denis Menchov, for example, lost almost 4 minutes, but was one of the strongest guys out there that day - and should have been very close to finish in the top 3.

Good points.

Is there any link about the sorensens 'updated' ftp? At least seems more likely but still impressive (to me). He can almost go full FTP at the end of the tour.

Since you (and Parrulo) mentioned the wind factor, I recall something about that. Thanks for pointing that out. Makes the 412w statement still plausible then.

Think I can exclude the 6.7w/kg so far (thank god)

 

[wannab]

With those watts he should be able to beat Alberto relatively easily.

what's contador's FTP? you know more? hehe

 

[Parrulo]

what's contador's FTP? you know more? hehe

i have always wondered what kind of numbers contador had, have they ever been published? what is his VO2MAX?

 

[Caruut]

i have always wondered what kind of numbers contador had, have they ever been published? what is his VO2MAX?

LeMond once wrote in the NYT that he'd calculated it to be 99 based on how fast he was up a particular climb, but those numbers were questioned.

 

[LaFlorecita]

LeMond once wrote in the NYT that he'd calculated it to be 99 based on how fast he was up a particular climb, but those numbers were questioned.

99.5 to be exact. But yeah those numbers were probably wrong.

 

[Michele]

Michele Ferrari wrote on his blog once (cant recall which article was..) that numbers over 6 w/kg start to be suspicious.

 

[Nilsson]

Good points.

Is there any link about the sorensens 'updated' ftp? At least seems more likely but still impressive (to me). He can almost go full FTP at the end of the tour.

Since you (and Parrulo) mentioned the wind factor, I recall something about that. Thanks for pointing that out. Makes the 412w statement still plausible then.

Think I can exclude the 6.7w/kg so far (thank god)

It's in the trainingpeak-link you posted...

The exact statement:

This has been a tough Tour de France for many riders and Sorensen is no exceptions. We've revised his wattage as well as his FTP from 400 watts down to 375 watts and making that retro-active back to last Sunday July 10th. This will change his TSS values for the stages from that point on. This gives him a TSS of 345 for today which makes this stage the hardest so far…..

The 412w for Andy is indeed very plausible. I know Chris Froome had a somewhat similar power output in the almost 1-hour time trial in the Vuelta (but he's a little bit heavier, putting him at 5.8 w/kg, though much more aerodynamic and thus pretty great in that time trial) and the same for Gesink in the almost 1-hour Dauphiné-TT (408 W, which is 5.9 w/kg, but not too great aerodynamics and therefore losing quite some time on Martin en Wiggins. Now Gesink has a position that allows him to deliver more power and he can go up to 6.2 w/kg in TT-position for an hour and his P-10 is 6.8 w/kg)

 

[LaFlorecita]

what's contador's FTP? you know more? hehe

I don't know but in some other thread I think I read 6.5 w/kg on the Etna?

Otoh, this linktells me that when he attacked on Verbier he had an average of 535 watts (=8.6 w/kg (!)) for 4 minutes 30 s and that the average of the entire climb was 7.2 w/kg. But that was 2009, Giro 2011 is much more recent.

 

[Nilsson]

99.5 to be exact. But yeah those numbers were probably wrong.

Those numbers weren't right, indeed. Although Contador is a physical freak. As a neo-pro (2003 in the Once-team) he already exceeded the testing protocol of dr. Inigo San Millan - who has a lot of data of lots of riders. His Vo2max is above 90 ml/kg/min, his FTP is above 6 w/kg and you could even call him 'the ultimate 20-minute'-rider...

He has an incredible (around) 20-minute effort in his legs, up to 6.8 w/kg which enables him to match the best time trialists in the world (especially if the course isn't too flat) and makes him almost unstoppable if he attacks for such effort on a mountain, even with a considerable amount of headwind like on the Etna...

 

[LaFlorecita]

Those numbers weren't right, indeed. Although Contador is a physical freak. As a neo-pro (2003 in the Once-team) he already exceeded the testing protocol of dr. Inigo San Millan - who has a lot of data of lots of riders. His Vo2max is above 90 ml/kg/min, his FTP is above 6 w/kg and you could even call him 'the ultimate 20-minute'-rider...

He has an incredible (around) 20-minute effort in his legs, up to 6.8 w/kg which enables him to match the best time trialists in the world (especially if the course isn't too flat) and makes him almost unstoppable if he attacks for such effort on a mountain, even with a considerable amount of headwind like on the Etna...

So these numbers are wrong as well?

Otoh, this link tells me that when he attacked on Verbier he had an average of 535 watts (=8.6 w/kg (!)) for 4 minutes 30 s and that the average of the entire climb was 7.2 w/kg. But that was 2009, Giro 2011 is much more recent. [/B]