Serotta bankrupt??

[BroDeal]

Rumors are swirling that Serotta is about to go kaput. Their factory is for sale.

This would really suck if it is true.

 

[Race Radio]

http://www.coldwellbankerprime.com/Property/NY/12866/Saratoga_Springs/41_GEYSER_RD

The place they moved into a while back is for sale.

While I have mixed feelings on them it would suck to see them shut down. If they file chap 11 they can continue to operate, Chap 7 means liquidation.

I seem to remember Ben sold it to some money guys years ago, then bought it back?

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Rumors are swirling that Serotta is about to go kaput. Their factory is for sale.

This would really suck if it is true.

Rumor here is that they have ceased operations and are looking for a buyer.

Factory is for sale.

Second rumor is there is a potential buyer for the name, not the factory/assets.

Tough biz all around, the bike biz.

 

[BroDeal]

Second rumor is there is a potential buyer for the name, not the factory/assets.

That would go from suck to blow. Pacific cycles new Serotta line, made in Chaiwan.

 

[Keith A]

Greetings. I realize that this my first post here, but I am one of the forum administrators on the Serotta forum and have been in contact with Ben Serotta today regarding the changes taking place there...and this is his statement about what is going on...

Dear Friends, Fans, amateur journalists & muckrakers, citizens, cyclists and forumites;

There’s been a lot of chatter about what’s going on at Serotta and I appreciate the level of interest and concern.

About a week ago I posted a statement on this forum regarding the business changes we are undergoing and apparently did not reach everyone. I’ll be more specific this time in addressing concerns that have been raised.

The reasons for the changes are simple. We want Serotta to endure as a profitable, sustainable, true-to-our-roots American made brand of uncompromising quality and dedication to excellence and innovation. These changes, which are probably a year or so overdue, will allow us to achieve our goal.

• We are pushing through a metamorphosis of sorts, transforming our business model from a wholesale manufacturing business (sales through authorized dealerships) to a consumer direct & dealer hybrid.
• There will be many fewer authorized dealerships, but those that we keep ‘in the family’ are absolutely the best at delivering a complete Serotta experience and we’re proud of our relationship with these fine companies.
• Consumers will have a variety of purchase-through-the-factory options.
• Pricing is strictly MSRP.
• We will shift our product focus towards the SE custom range where every last detail is a full expression of our design, engineering and manufacturing ethos. Over the next few months we will be eliminating or reducing availability of our other models.
• We are right-sizing the business. With our shift in both the distribution and product emphasis, our volume is decreasing and therefore our staffing and space requirements are smaller too.
• Our Saratoga facility is for sale. We built this wonderful property to be able to support a 5,000 frame/year capacity. Our new business model requires less capacity, so we’ve decided to take this great asset and put it to better use. We don’t know if it will take two weeks, two months or two years to sell, so we’re not even looking for our new digs, but rest assured, the next home will be just as perfect in its own way. What makes a great home is the family inside. But if you are interested in a great property…. http://www.roohanrealty.com/listing...p?MLS=201129664
• The only planned changes at our California facility are to open the second Factory Fit Lab.
• There has been much speculation about the company being for sale or having been sold. In a way, any for-profit business is always for sale. It’s about matching timing, vision and value. Contrary to rumors, we have not been sold to a discount on-line sales company or to anyone else. However, we have always been open to discussing ideas that will add value and opportunity to the company and its staff.
• We are very much in business. Customers, current and future needn’t be worried; we’ll be building your bicycles for a long time to come.
• We are overloaded with email and our response time is not as quick as we would like it to be and we apologize for that. By estimate there are more than 30,000 Serottas still in circulation. It’s a big family and we’re a small company, so we ask for and appreciate your patience.

I hope that these points have answered your many questions and concerns. In closing I’d like to again thank all of our followers for your interest and concern in Serotta.

With kind regards,

Ben

 

[Boeing]

A couple of Serotta for Life honks in our group rides are purchasing an additional fork now just in case this is worse than it seems. Sounds like a good idea. It would suuk if the Reynolds type fork design went away. these Ti Frames will be around for years to come.

Thanks for that post Keith

Good luck to Ben in this changing climate.

 

[BroDeal]

Some more info here.

http://www.saratogian.com/articles/2011/10/25/news/doc4ea5a153ccc7f156376564.txt?viewmode=default

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

Rumors are swirling that Serotta is about to go kaput. Their factory is for sale.

This would really suck if it is true.

I'm wit you on this. A lotta ppl out there like there Serotta's. Maybe they will be okay, cos wasn't Litespeed swirling round the toilet bowl a while back but are still operating? At least they still have a website.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

I'm wit you on this. A lotta ppl out there like there Serotta's. Maybe they will be okay, cos wasn't Litespeed swirling round the toilet bowl a while back but are still operating? At least they still have a website.

No doubt they are in trouble. I wonder if Ben looks at some of these posts on the many forums now carrying the story. There are some great suggestions out there among the peanut gallery, maybe he ought to listen.

 

[Boeing]

Makes you wonder how others like IF, Moots and Seven are holding up?

 

[BroDeal]

Makes you wonder how others like IF, Moots and Seven are holding up?

Those companies have done a much better job of maintaining brand allure.

A while back IF moved. I think to cut costs.

Moots is killing it.

I have the impression that Seven's brand is not as strong as it was a few years ago.

 

[Boeing]

Those companies have done a much better job of maintaining brand allure.

A while back IF moved. I think to cut costs.

Moots is killing it.

I have the impression that Seven's brand is not as strong as it was a few years ago.

Moots has the 29er niche well grounded thats right.

What about Davidson?

Brand allure is a good topic actually. If I am not mistaken Ben kind of revolutionized the "custom geometry" with his fit bike bringing his brand into hi end shops with the fit system and a down tube sticker. Brilliant at the time. that was his attraction with the help of pro athletes throwing a leg over one

However my rather limited observation is that the need for custom frame fabrication is obsolete in the general market place. There are greater variety of sizes including women specific designs in mass production.

Never-mind the fact that a rider could get 2 totally different measurements and geometries in separate shops.

on a side note the problem I had with he custom fitting in the day was there was far too much attention to top tube length and seat tube length. Fitters tended to forget the significance of the HT and ST angles, BB drop etc...IMHO


but that is not a knock on Ben and his current situation, I digress

 

[Parera]

Moots has the 29er niche well grounded thats right.

What about Davidson?

Brand allure is a good topic actually. If I am not mistaken Ben kind of revolutionized the "custom geometry" with his fit bike bringing his brand into hi end shops with the fit system and a down tube sticker. Brilliant at the time. that was his attraction with the help of pro athletes throwing a leg over one

However my rather limited observation is that the need for custom frame fabrication is obsolete in the general market place. There are greater variety of sizes including women specific designs in mass production.

Never-mind the fact that a rider could get 2 totally different measurements and geometries in separate shops.

on a side note the problem I had with he custom fitting in the day was there was far too much attention to top tube length and seat tube length. Fitters tended to forget the significance of the HT and ST angles, BB drop etc...IMHO


but that is not a knock on Ben and his current situation, I digress

I will also add I hate reach/stack based fits. It's just a static number not the end all, be all of fitting. And yes, as you said HT/ST angle, BB drop are crucial to a fit; I would even add wheelbase as another fit elements that gets overlooked.

Custom fits are great, but they only get you on the dance floor. The rest actually needs to be done pedaling the bike on the road.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

I will also add I hate reach/stack based fits. It's just a static number not the end all, be all of fitting. And yes, as you said HT/ST angle, BB drop are crucial to a fit; I would even add wheelbase as another fit elements that gets overlooked.

Custom fits are great, but they only get you on the dance floor. The rest actually needs to be done pedaling the bike on the road.

"gets you to the dance, doesn't get you the pretty girl"

 

[Notso Swift]

However my rather limited observation is that the need for custom frame fabrication is obsolete in the general market place. There are greater variety of sizes including women specific designs in mass production.

You are not out side the statistical norm are you.
Well at 195cm I am.
Choice is significantly reduced as manufactures limit sizes and make you use the various stem options, since I already run a 14cm stem...

 

[Boeing]

You are not out side the statistical norm are you.
Well at 195cm I am.
Choice is significantly reduced as manufactures limit sizes and make you use the various stem options, since I already run a 14cm stem...

I appreciate your concerns however I thought this was a business discussion.

Business models are measured within a statistical norm, along with profitability last I checked

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

I appreciate your concerns however I thought this was a business discussion.

Business models are measured within a statistical norm, along with profitability last I checked

Boeing, you know I love you man, but where are you getting these stats? Last time I checked the custom market has been growing at an exponential rate over the years even in this horseschit economy. Take a look at NAHBS and EHBE. Statistically the custom frame builders, and wheel builders for that matter are all having record years, even with the exit of a few companies that fall to the wayside. Nature of the beast, but custom being "obsolete" is a bit off, I think what we're seeing is just old being replaced by the new in the case of Serotta.

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

A while back IF moved. I think to cut costs.

IF isn't what it once was, the builders that made IF what it is left out of business indifference and started their own Co. Firefly Bicycles

 

[Race Radio]

Boeing, you know I love you man, but where are you getting these stats? Last time I checked the custom market has been growing at an exponential rate over the years even in this horseschit economy. Take a look at NAHBS and EHBE. Statistically the custom frame builders, and wheel builders for that matter are all having record years, even with the exit of a few companies that fall to the wayside. Nature of the beast, but custom being "obsolete" is a bit off, I think what we're seeing is just old being replaced by the new in the case of Serotta.

The custom market is certainly doing well. Many builders have waiting lists and do little advertising (Vanilla, Holland, DeSalvo) The larger guys like Moots and Parlee are doing well.

It appears Serotta made some key mistakes. They were making 2000 frames a year and borrowed to build the capacity to make 5,000.....then their demand dropped to 700. They were not helped by their target market, rich bankers.

Builders who embraced prudent growth and focused on a stable target market have survived and flourished.

 

[BroDeal]

However my rather limited observation is that the need for custom frame fabrication is obsolete in the general market place. There are greater variety of sizes including women specific designs in mass production.

I would not say there is a greater variety of sizes. The big companies have been good at convincing people that three, four, or five sizes is enough. The bike can be forced to fit with a stem and seatpost. When I started, one of the marks of a high end frame was one centimeter differences between frame sizes.

To make matters worse, there has been an influx of the big boned taking up the sport, so any standard frame from the big boys has to be made to handle a 200+ pound rider. That may not be a problem if you are 180 lbs, but for those of us close to a buck and a half, we are getting a heavier and overly stiff frame.

And then there is the new trend toward giant head tubes so that those with bad backs or beer bellies can use a -17 degree stem instead of facing the indignity of using a stem that is angled up.

Anyway, Serotta's main problems are that its prices are too high relative to the alternatives and a decline in brand allure.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

The custom market is certainly doing well. Many builders have waiting lists and do little advertising (Vanilla, Holland, DeSalvo) The larger guys like Moots and Parlee are doing well.

It appears Serotta made some key mistakes. They were making 2000 frames a year and borrowed to build the capacity to make 5,000.....then their demand dropped to 700. They were not helped by their target market, rich bankers.

Builders who embraced prudent growth and focused on a stable target market have survived and flourished.

What he said, buying Reynolds in SoCal was a poor choice of scarce funds, when asian companies can make an equal or superior carbon product for much less $. Ben ought to sell that facility in Poway, sell the huge factory in NY, encourage the good dealers he has, dump the dead ones, reduce his offerings(alphabet soup now), concentrate on what he does well, steel, titanium, dump the sell direct idea(gonna lose some good dealers because of this), streamline delivery/production/QC...and he might survive but I'm thinking in 12 months the brand is done.

 

[DirtyWorks]

What he said, buying Reynolds in SoCal was a poor choice of scarce funds, when asian companies can make an equal or superior carbon product for much less $. Ben ought to sell that facility in Poway, sell the huge factory in NY, encourage the good dealers he has, dump the dead ones, reduce his offerings(alphabet soup now), concentrate on what he does well, steel, titanium, dump the sell direct idea(gonna lose some good dealers because of this), streamline delivery/production/QC...and he might survive but I'm thinking in 12 months the brand is done.

The dealer vs. direct plan is a hard one. The problem with a dealer network is the old 80/20 ratio. 80% of dealers don't do much if anything beyond the minimum. The other 20% actually sell. And coordinating those 20% are like herding cats.

I see much more pressure from vertical shops (Trek/Specialized shops) on a company like Serotta in my area. It doesn't affect most custom builders because their business is direct 90% of the time.

Most people in the market for a custom don't know what they want and gladly suffer with race-like geometry and obsessively count grams. The customer thinks it's a badge of honor to be uncomfortable. A builder can't argue with this though as it just drives the potential customer away. Meanwhile, the supply of high end bikes on Craigslist remains high. I get great deals from people leaving the sport. But the industry is happy.

 

[Notso Swift]

However my rather limited observation is that the need for custom frame fabrication is obsolete in the general market place. There are greater variety of sizes including women specific designs in mass production.

You are not out side the statistical norm are you.
Well at 195cm I am.
Choice is significantly reduced as manufactures limit sizes and make you use the various stem options, since I already run a 14cm stem...

I appreciate your concerns however I thought this was a business discussion.

Business models are measured within a statistical norm, along with profitability last I checked

So, let me get this clear... you are contradicting the initial and quite ridiculous statement and recounting with an agreement,

 

[Reformed]

I would not say there is a greater variety of sizes. The big companies have been good at convincing people that three, four, or five sizes is enough. The bike can be forced to fit with a stem and seatpost. When I started, one of the marks of a high end frame was one centimeter differences between frame sizes.

To make matters worse, there has been an influx of the big boned taking up the sport, so any standard frame from the big boys has to be made to handle a 200+ pound rider. That may not be a problem if you are 180 lbs, but for those of us close to a buck and a half, we are getting a heavier and overly stiff frame.

And then there is the new trend toward giant head tubes so that those with bad backs or beer bellies can use a -17 degree stem instead of facing the indignity of using a stem that is angled up.

Ouch. I hope you don't mind us 6-4 plus boys encroaching on your territory. But tell me, it is 12:00 at night, your leaving Chili's, who do you want walking with you in the parking lot, another guy that weighs 150 or a guy that is 6-4 220? : ) Give us a little love, we may help you one day.

 

[usedtobefast]

Ouch. I hope you don't mind us 6-4 plus boys encroaching on your territory. But tell me, it is 12:00 at night, your leaving Chili's, who do you want walking with you in the parking lot, another guy that weighs 150 or a guy that is 6-4 220? : ) Give us a little love, we may help you one day.

i come in at 132, but will be glad to drink beer with you any time.