Shaun Stephens to Sky

[Dear Wiggo]

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/team-sky-appoints-shaun-stephens-as-performance-coach

Stephens has worked with Australian athletes through four Olympic cycles and is currently head coach and programme manager at the Australian Institute of Sport and Triathlon Australia. He is considered one of the top triathlon coaches in the world and was head coach for the Australian team at the 2012 London Olympics.

Shaun is replacing Bobby Julich.

And the irony: August, 2012 Shaun being interviewed wrt Aussie coaches being poached by other countries. Pretty wishy washy interview though. :-/

http://www.abc.net.au/radionational...opping-the-coach-poach-shaun-stephens/4181710

Australia is now back in the top 20 on the medal tally, but still a long way down on pre-games expectations. Swimming Australia has already announced a review of the team's performance and many are questioning how to stop the brain drain of Australian coaches to overseas teams across all sports.

Shaun was Australia's head triathlon coach.

Sky just need a running coach and they should be set.

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

So do we know of any links that Stephens has to the clinic? Or is it a case of professional cycling team hires experienced sports coach?

 

[Dear Wiggo]

So do we know of any links that Stephens has to the clinic? Or is it a case of professional cycling team hires experienced sports coach?

No - feel free to move the thread elsewhere if it's misplaced here.

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

No - feel free to move the thread elsewhere if it's misplaced here.

I have no idea about him that's why I am asking. Clinic threads do tend to imply a certain angle on a topic.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

I have no idea about him that's why I am asking. Clinic threads do tend to imply a certain angle on a topic.

It's the epilogue to the Team Sky ZTP exodus (specifically Bobby J), that's the main link. When I saw the interview discussing coach drain from Australia, the irony light went on.

 

[sniper]

it's clever by sky.
draw staff from endurance disciplines where PED-testing has been relatively lax.
sky has the means to attract the creme de la creme of coaches untainted by PED-rumors.
no doubt this guy knows how to 'produce' winners.

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

it's clever by sky.
draw staff from endurance disciplines where PED-testing has been relatively lax.
sky has the means to attract the creme de la creme of coaches untainted by PED-rumors.
no doubt this guy knows how to 'produce' winners.

i would be interested to see if there was any coach that they could have brought in that would not draw the same response (i.e. the 'produce' part) from you?

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

i would be interested to see if there was any coach that they could have brought in that would not draw the same response (i.e. the 'produce' part) from you?

As all sport is dirty the answer would be no. However, Sniper's point is that unlike picking a coach from say Track and Field, you pick a sport which has less/no testing, then there are not going to be any scandals waiting to come out - as they have done with Yates, Julich, Barry, etc

It goes back to the Prentice Steffen email about perception equalling reality. If you pick a coach who is perceived to be clean because there are no scandals then it creates the 'reality' of a clean team.

The aim is not to avoid doping but to avoid scandals.

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

As all sport is dirty the answer would be no. However, Sniper's point is that unlike picking a coach from say Track and Field, you pick a sport which has less/no testing, then there are not going to be any scandals waiting to come out - as they have done with Yates, Julich, Barry, etc

It goes back to the Prentice Steffen email about perception equalling reality. If you pick a coach who is perceived to be clean because there are no scandals then it creates the 'reality' of a clean team.

The aim is not to avoid doping but to avoid scandals.

But then that argument can easily be spun the other way. If you go with the logic that Sky has a doping programme in place the obvious thing would be to get a clean guy in. That way you don't even have to pretend. Behind the scenes everything continues as before.

 

[sniper]

As all sport is dirty the answer would be no. However, Sniper's point is that unlike picking a coach from say Track and Field, you pick a sport which has less/no testing, then there are not going to be any scandals waiting to come out - as they have done with Yates, Julich, Barry, etc

It goes back to the Prentice Steffen email about perception equalling reality. If you pick a coach who is perceived to be clean because there are no scandals then it creates the 'reality' of a clean team.

The aim is not to avoid doping but to avoid scandals.

thanks and indeed.

all prosport is indeed dirty, especially at the top. there can not and need not be any doubt about that.
Illegal performance enhancing means are inherent to any professional business, not just sports. Hell, even most charity business is dirty, just as the amateur sport level is nowadays swamped by PEDs.
Don't be late pedro would be wise to take these assumptions as a starting point, in order to enhance his thought process.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

it's clever by sky.
draw staff from endurance disciplines where PED-testing has been relatively lax.
sky has the means to attract the creme de la creme of coaches untainted by PED-rumors.
no doubt this guy knows how to 'produce' winners.

and it begins...

 

[sniper]

But then that argument can easily be spun the other way. If you go with the logic that Sky has a doping programme in place the obvious thing would be to get a clean guy in. That way you don't even have to pretend. Behind the scenes everything continues as before.

well taken.
but it's about marginal gains, remember? you don't stay ahead of the game by bringing in clean crusaders or social reformers.
look at this guy's CV, his palmares is filled with olympic medals.
as there is per definition no PED-free environment at the top pro-level, there is simply no way this guy can be trusted to engage in clean sport.

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

thanks and indeed.

all prosport is indeed dirty, especially at the top. there can not and need not be any doubt about that.
Illegal performance enhancing means are inherent to any professional business, not just sports. Hell, even most charity business is dirty, just as the amateur sport level is nowadays swamped by PEDs.
Don't be late pedro would be wise to take these assumptions as a starting point, in order to enhance his thought process.

Interesting that you use the word assumptions and not facts. My thought process tends to work better with the latter whereas the former tends to lead to the mother of all...

 

[sniper]

Interesting that you use the word assumptions and not facts. My thought process tends to work better with the latter whereas the former tends to lead to the mother of all...

seeing how much you value ignorance, i'd like to ask you to say hi to Phil for me.

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

well taken.
but it's about marginal gains, remember? you don't stay ahead of the game by bringing in clean crusaders or social reformers.
look at this guy's CV, his palmares is filled with olympic medals.
as there is per definition no PED-free environment at the top pro-level, there is simply no way this guy can be trusted to engage in clean sport.

But again, if he had not real track record people here would be even more suspicious of him. i.e. What is he bringing to the table if not a successful track record of winning. Given cycling's history it is not surprising that this is the first view of a new coach but don't you think at some point along the line you are going to be accusing perfectly innocent people?

There was a thread a little while back which started with a picture of a Cofidis rider and him being clean. Someone was straight in with the first post saying he rides for Cofidis so obviously he dopes. It was, in fact, David Moncoutie whom is one of the few guys that most people acknowledge as being clean. I would suggest this is the exception that proves the rule.

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

Now I have said all that I bet the ****er is going to be involved in some doping scandal...

 

[cineteq]

Shouldn't this thread be a "mention" in the Sky thread?

 

[sniper]

But again, if he had not real track record people here would be even more suspicious of him. i.e. What is he bringing to the table if not a successful track record of winning. Given cycling's history it is not surprising that this is the first view of a new coach but don't you think at some point along the line you are going to be accusing perfectly innocent people?

There was a thread a little while back which started with a picture of a Cofidis rider and him being clean. Someone was straight in with the first post saying he rides for Cofidis so obviously he dopes. It was, in fact, David Moncoutie whom is one of the few guys that most people acknowledge as being clean. I would suggest this is the exception that proves the rule.

I'm not accusing this guy.
I'm just pointing out some rather obvious things
That this guy has been working with doped up athletes is if course not a fact in the history books, but it's rather obvious nonetheless.
He knows what is required to reach the top, and he'll know it doesn't happen on paniagua.

But this is not yet a guarantee for success. He first has to prove himself at sky. He might have to adapt. He might fail.
How do we explain Cadel's top year in 2011 and his bad form in 2012? One explanation is that his doctor, as experienced as he may be, failed to properly prepare Cadel. Apparently experience isn't everything.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Now I have said all that I bet the ****er is going to be involved in some doping scandal...

el oh el.

 

[Froome19]

Ridiculously ironic that this thread was started in the Clinic before any links to doping were found about him..

To me it seems that the claims are made first and then only after the links are "discovered"

 

[Bernie's eyesore]

Ridiculously ironic that this thread was started in the Clinic before any links to doping were found about him..

To me it seems that the claims are made first and then only after the links are "discovered"

If Sky had hired someone who we know to be 100% clean (not that such a thing is possible), it would merit a 100 page thread in here about how it was all a smokescreen to hide their doping practices.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

I'm not accusing this guy.
I'm just pointing out some rather obvious things
That this guy has been working with doped up athletes is if course not a fact in the history books, but it's rather obvious nonetheless.
He knows what is required to reach the top, and he'll know it doesn't happen on paniagua.

But this is not yet a guarantee for success. He first has to prove himself at sky. He might have to adapt. He might fail.
How do we explain Cadel's top year in 2011 and his bad form in 2012? One explanation is that his doctor, as experienced as he may be, failed to properly prepare Cadel. Apparently experience isn't everything.

What - thats exactly what you did.

well taken.
but it's about marginal gains, remember? you don't stay ahead of the game by bringing in clean crusaders or social reformers.
look at this guy's CV, his palmares is filled with olympic medals.
as there is per definition no PED-free environment at the top pro-level, there is simply no way this guy can be trusted to engage in clean sport.

 

[Mellow Velo]

No - feel free to move the thread elsewhere if it's misplaced here.

No, this is the place.
A miracle he lasted 6 posts before being called out.
Won't be long before the Hog arrives with irrefutable evidence from another of his join the dots equals definite dirty doper, exercises.

 

[hrotha]

it's clever by sky.
draw staff from endurance disciplines where PED-testing has been relatively lax.
sky has the means to attract the creme de la creme of coaches untainted by PED-rumors.
no doubt this guy knows how to 'produce' winners.

How exactly is being inexperienced in dealing with stricter controls an advantage?

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

No, this is the place.
A miracle he lasted 6 posts before being called out.
Won't be long before the Hog arrives with irrefutable evidence from another of his join the dots equals definite dirty doper, exercises.

And of course, it won't be equally long before some Daily Mail reading fanboys appear to declare him 100% clean because he has a nice english sounding name, and because Brailsford is omniscient and thus would never hire someone dirty.