Shimano vs Champagnolo

[Anonymous]

Here's the deal. I'd like to build up a bike as an "over the winter" project and I'd like inputs on which way to go, mid range Shimano Ultegra or another, Champagnolo Chorus for example. Costs seem pretty close.

On the plus side for Shimano: 1) I've beer using Shimano for years and its been durable and reliable. 2) The few tools I have are Shimano specific. 3) My spares box is filled with Shimano and 4) Back in the early '90s I bought Shimano stock and I feel like I should support the side.

Are there enough / any advantages to the Champy 11 group (besides the 11th gear) that would make me want to go that route? Is it worth buying the Champy specific tools, complicating my maintenance situation, etc etc?

Thanks in advance for your feedback.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Here's the deal. I'd like to build up a bike as an "over the winter" project and I'd like inputs on which way to go, mid range Shimano Ultegra or another, Champagnolo Chorus for example. Costs seem pretty close.

On the plus side for Shimano: 1) I've beer using Shimano for years and its been durable and reliable. 2) The few tools I have are Shimano specific. 3) My spares box is filled with Shimano and 4) Back in the early '90s I bought Shimano stock and I feel like I should support the side.

Are there enough / any advantages to the Champy 11 group (besides the 11th gear) that would make me want to go that route? Is it worth buying the Champy specific tools, complicating my maintenance situation, etc etc?

Thanks in advance for your feedback.

Couple of things to remember. First, rear wheel. Campagnolo cogsets go onto Campagnolo compatible rear wheel so you will need one of those if you go Campagnolo.

Biggest determining factor is how the levers feel in your hand. The 2009 Campagnolo redesign makes for a very comfy lever in the hand but YMMV. Plus there are no more functional nor reliable levers on the market than Campagnolo right now, both in terms of LH Fder micro adjust and RH lever gear number selection.

The only 'Campagnolo specific tools' you need is a chain tool(Park and Pedros make a 11s tool) and the cassette lockring tool, nothing else.

I am a big fan of Campagnolo and their 12-29 for 2010 shows they are finally looking at realistic gear ratios. Second choice would be 6700, even tho expensive when compared to 6600, very nice group.

Sram for me is a distant 3rd. They seem to rely on whizbangery, ceramic, other exotic stuff, rather than really good form and function. Their groups seem like they are designed in different places, really a lot of big decals but their BB bearings, chainrings, shifter reliability leave a lot to be desired, IMHO. I just installed a Force group and it seemed really cheaply made. Really good warranty department tho. That's either a good thing or a bad thing.

 

[analo69]

Campy has imo better gear levers. You can downshift multible gears, and I like shifting with my thumb. The ergonomics are better for my hands.

Note that I have not tried the new campy 11 speed.

Plus I like the Italian feel to it.

I have Shimano ultegra(2007 edition) on one of my bicycles and that is great too. On the new edition the cables are hidden behind the griptape like dura ace and campagnolo. A great improvement.

 

[El Imbatido]

SRAM

In all seriousness if you are considering Campy you probably should consider SRAM as well.

Any choice you choose in the end is gonna be really good, so don't sweat it too much.

 

[TheDude]

I'd compare Centaur to Ultegra (both 10-speed). I like the Campy levers (individual brake lever, clime the clogs with finger lever, and drop the cogs with the thumb lever). You will need new hubs.

I'll be building my second Centaur bike (one carbon, one alloy).

 

[mercycle]

Campy Super Record, downtube shift levers, brake levers instead of "integrated shifters". All on an Italian lugged steel frame of course, topped off with a Regal saddle and Cinelli bars/stem.

Why would anyone want or need anything else?

 

[flicker]

Its all good

I like the ultegra and the deore stuff. Campi is more durable and I like to support the Italians. They are the original high end components and most high end components are copied from campi.

I think campi parts can be rebuilt while shimano parts go into trash as they wear.

I also think certain brands and quality bike frames deserve certain brands/grades of components.

I try not to mix brands except for handlebars stems and pedals.

Bottom line I prefer campi. Shimano is good too. I don't like the SRAM road gruppos.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

I like the ultegra and the deore stuff. Campi is more durable and I like to support the Italians. They are the original high end components and most high end components are copied from campi.

I think campi parts can be rebuilt while shimano parts go into trash as they wear.

I also think certain brands and quality bike frames deserve certain brands/grades of components.

I try not to mix brands except for handlebars stems and pedals.

Bottom line I prefer campi. Shimano is good too. I don't like the SRAM road gruppos.

I agree. I wouldn't put Toyo tires on my Alfa(Pirelli)...


I agree. If I had a Alfa Romero I wouldn't put Toyo tires on it.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks

Hey thanks for the sound advise... (and also for overlooking my spelling mistakes!). My experiences with other Italian made equipment (not bike stuff) have not all been good. I feel better now and am thinking Italiano, unless I stumble onto a really great deal for Shimano. I had forgotten about needing more wheels, but wheels don't take up much space and that justifies trying out different tires.

Ciao

 

[avanti]

...................I think campi parts can be rebuilt while shimano parts go into trash as they wear..................

This what Campag fans in my club tell me.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

This what Campag fans in my club tell me.

For shift levers, 2008 and older, Record and Chorus, all levers from 2006 and older. Campagnolo reduced the availability iof shift innards drastically for 2009/2010. Shift lever 'assemblies' only, not expensive tho, It might be worthwhile to buy some of these and strip, providing small shifter parts.

 

[kiwirider]

To refer to the OP's question - before you go for a Campag gruppo, definitely check out the spares catalogues (and possibly use last year's one to check the individual parts in the Ergo levers - since like BK says they've grouped the inards into single part numbers for this year rather than selling them as individual parts). If you do, you'll find that the only difference between the new Veloce and Super Record is the 11 speed ratchet and the carbon outer/brake lever. Check through the other parts in the gruppos and you'll find similar cross over. So, where am I going? Unless you're racing top level pro or have the $$ to burn, think about going lower on the gruppos - keeps $$ in the pocket for bits where you'll really see a functional difference from spending more.

I did this setting up my cross bike. I've always run a combination of Record and Chorus on my roadies, but broke with tradition and set up my crosser with Veloce. I was nervous about functionality and going that low on the gruppo "family". I can say after abusing the crap out of it (including dumping the bike on the road at 70km/h during a training ride ...) that it works as well as the Record does. This continuation of the quality across all gruppos is to my mind one of the biggest strengths of Campag compared to Shimano. (Interestingly, SRAM seem to have realised this in their '09/'10 gruppos - at least according to my mate who runs Red on the road and Rival on the cross bike.)

It also means that, given there is stuff all difference between Centaur and Veloce (carbon lever blades and stickers), you can spend something around 105/Tiagra prices and get Ultegra functionality ... I'd actually say better than Ultegra functionality - but that's in part because I'm expecting that the run of problems that people had with new Dura Ace will be replicated in the redesigned Ultegra ... (Sorry to all Shimano fans - but in the few bits of their stuff I've had on my MTB, I've had more problems than with all of my other components on all bikes combined, so yes, I am no fan of Shimano ...)

As for changing over the wheels - definitely the better option, but there are spacer kits and Shimano splined-Campag spaced freewheels out there. For a spacer kit, I got one sent to me from http://www.wheelworks.co.nz - and ran out the WH-500's that originally came on my cross bike with it. I can't remember the manufacturers who turn out the freewheels ... I think that American Classic and Miche may be two of them - but a good LBS should be able to tell you. That said, it is definitely better to run Campag splined hubs ...

Oh, and to expand on Avanti's comment ... the saying is "While Shimano wears out ... Campag just wears in" ..

 

[L29205]

For shift levers, 2008 and older, Record and Chorus, all levers from 2006 and older. Campagnolo reduced the availability iof shift innards drastically for 2009/2010. Shift lever 'assemblies' only, not expensive tho, It might be worthwhile to buy some of these and strip, providing small shifter parts.

Campagnolo, has in my opinion taken on an opinion of ride it till it breaks and not offer any parts for repair. Spares will go away or will be priced in a way to make a new part purchase more attractive. Ebay may help with the above strategy however.

That being said, I am still riding my old Rossin Crit bike bought in 1982 with the original Campagnolo Super Record. My only replacement parts, nylon bushing in the down tube shifters, headsets, and bearings.

 

[St. Elia]

well it seems like everyone is in agreement, campy it is.

You may want to make a tool list.

Cassette tool
BB cup tool
10 mm allen key (for a driver)
and a chain tool.

not much really, and who doesn't like to buy new tools really

For wheels am I missing something can't you just by a campy freewheel for most wheels?

FYI I just bought a campy super record bike last year and I love it, but I did fine a crack on my FD which was replaced.

The wear out/ wear in quote is very true, going to buy my wife a campy bike one of these days.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

well it seems like everyone is in agreement, campy it is.

You may want to make a tool list.

Cassette tool
BB cup tool
10 mm allen key (for a driver)
and a chain tool.

not much really, and who doesn't like to buy new tools really

For wheels am I missing something can't you just by a campy freewheel for most wheels?

FYI I just bought a campy super record bike last year and I love it, but I did fine a crack on my FD which was replaced.

The wear out/ wear in quote is very true, going to buy my wife a campy bike one of these days.

Depends on the wheel, for a Campagnolo freehub. Most have it, some(like ChrisKing) do not.

The BB cup tool is the same for Campagnolo cups as any other, BTW.

Good choice, my first choice of components as well.

 

[badboyberty]

''...

The BB cup tool is the same for Campagnolo cups as any other, BTW.

...

The one piece "C" shaped BB tools with handles work for everything, but, if you use a socket driven BB cup tool that engages every spline at once, some of the Shimano specific ones are too short to engage an Ultra-Torque BB properly.

 

[Anonymous]

fixin stuff

I have enough other things to fix, valves, solenoids, steam boilers, pumps, seals, refrigeration systems.... when something bike related breaks I won't be rebuilding. I ride the bike to get away from that stuff. Still, I can maybe get the LBS to fix things.... and the shoes, why are Italian shoes so narrow?

 

[kiwirider]

.... and the shoes, why are Italian shoes so narrow?

So that I don't have to shag around trying on different brands like I do when I buy running shoes ...

I mean, you say it like it's a bad thing ... but for me it's great - shoe search is already narrowed (like the really bad pun??!!!) to Sidi and Diadora before I start ... wonderful!

Contrast that to when I buy running shoes ... Asics used to be good, but then started randomly deciding to make their lasts wider every so often ... so more often than not I end up having to try to find size 11+ women's shoes to get something that is narrow enough for my foot. Bad enough in Canada, but in NZ they typically only import 5 pairs in that size in any given year ... and then you've got the colour issue (I'm sorry, but I do draw the line at baby blue or vibrant pink trail running shoes ...!) ... oh, and for good measure, the redneck sales assistants that you strike every once in a while and somehow think that you're a cross dresser for wanting to have running shoes that don't slop about and give you blisters ...

So to all of the Italian cycling shoe designers out there - keep making the narrow shoes I say!!!!

(On a more serious note - you are aware that both Sidi and Diadora do run wider lasted editions of their shoes? Sidi add the name "Mega" after the model name and with Diadora, check out their website and you'll see something about two different lasts that they offer ...)

 

[Leopejo]

.... and the shoes, why are Italian shoes so narrow?

Oh, this is strange. My old, old, old SIDIs, and the even older SIDIs I used before them, wear my feet like a glove, and I have wide feet, always a pain when looking for running or football shoes.