Short term crit intensive training + tactics to syay up front

[Mongol_Waaijer]

I'm an experienced ex-elite rider just returning to competition at Cat1/2 level after 2 years out.

Been riding sweet spot training rides 2-3 hrs, and some fast training races on easy circuits since march.

Yesterday was first attempt at a criterium since 2008.

Here in NL crits go insanely fast from the off, and are highly technical, with sharp corners and almsot always 100% on small paving stones.

Yesterday I started in the middle, lost some ground in the corners, and ended up right at the back. I know I am strong enough to handle being at the back if the weakest riders have been weeded out, but yesterday I kept having to go really deep to close gaps on the straits and after the corners as guys in front of me cracked. To my immense irritation I found these weaker guys would often get on my wheel as i closed the gap, and then as soon as the pace eased off would get in front of me, only to crack again when the speed went up.

About halfway through the race this happened for the 6th time or so, and I just couldn't be bothered to bust a gut closing the gap.

I have two subjects for discussion:

1) How to train effectively for this sort of racing....55 laps of a 1-1.5km circuit, 4-5 corners. I've been doing interval training sprinting up one side of a bridge, coasting down the other side, turning and sprinting up again, 8 sets x 2, and I've been doing some training races, and have had some really deep efforts in long breaks. Howevers, training race circuits really suit me as it's always smooth asphalt and easy bends where you don't have to brake.

Any ideas?

2) How does one get to, and stay at the front in crits? Despite being ex-elite I always sucked at this, and used to hang at the back. But I was a lot stronger then, and in an elite race everyone is good enough not to get dropped in the first laps, so it's less risky. and if you don't care about crits it doesn't matter anyway. However now I'm in the "amateurs" racing is pretty much restricted to crits, and the scene is dominated by absolute powerhouse crit specialists.

Bear in mind these races take place on narrow urban cobbled streets with sharp corners, and most of the race is single file....cutting up the inside on corners is not really tolerated. Seems that finding a good place in the first couple of laps is crucial, but everyone thinks that, and I just don't have the competitive drive to demand my place and resist attempts to pass me anymore.

any advice?

 

[Michielveedeebee]

well, I'm not really feeling comfortable giving advice to a former pro but I think you should demand your place up there. As junior we also race a lost of crits and if you don't 'fight' for your place you also hang on the back. You could overtake in corners but you'll have to warn them how you wnat to take it

 

[Mongol_Waaijer]

well, I'm not really feeling comfortable giving advice to a former pro but I think you should demand your place up there. As junior we also race a lost of crits and if you don't 'fight' for your place you also hang on the back. You could overtake in corners but you'll have to warn them how you wnat to take it

"elite zonder contract" ;-)

For some reason here the categories below "elite/espoir" are called "amateurs"

 

[IE_Sprinter]

Hey Mongol...

Just my two cents but the only way I got into "crit" shape was doing crits. Normally during the week there are places that people gather and do "crit practice" in your area?

I know this is pretty much the only way because I remember riding for months in the mountains and being able to climb well, and felt ****ty my first crit of the season.

It's just a different type of racing. Being Road Race strong is different than crit strong, because you need to respond to accelerations all the time. ( I know you do that in a RR too but not as much.)

It's also why I hate crits because there are too many people at the end who can't sprint but get in your way and box you in. Which is why I started losing a bunch of weight so I could RR instead and not have the fat morons there at the end to ruin it for you.

My advice would be go to crit practices, but instead of treating it like a race; don't stratigize. Meaning don't sit in for the sprint. Just attack, attack, attack. Go with every break, and make some yourself, spend as much time as you can off the front, killing yourself.

Then when you get to the race, sit in and chill, and just stay up front at all costs. You will be used to killing yourself and so the crit will seem easier, and you will be able to move easier with the accelerations. At the start of the race, go to the front and stay there. Grab EVERY wheel that goes by you. Also, whenever the field slows, don't rest with them, always take that opportunity to move up.

Thats all I got......

 

[Wheels Go Round and Round]

I'm an experienced ex-elite rider just returning to competition at Cat1/2 level after 2 years out.

Been riding sweet spot training rides 2-3 hrs, and some fast training races on easy circuits since march.

Yesterday was first attempt at a criterium since 2008.

Here in NL crits go insanely fast from the off, and are highly technical, with sharp corners and almsot always 100% on small paving stones.

Yesterday I started in the middle, lost some ground in the corners, and ended up right at the back. I know I am strong enough to handle being at the back if the weakest riders have been weeded out, but yesterday I kept having to go really deep to close gaps on the straits and after the corners as guys in front of me cracked. To my immense irritation I found these weaker guys would often get on my wheel as i closed the gap, and then as soon as the pace eased off would get in front of me, only to crack again when the speed went up.

About halfway through the race this happened for the 6th time or so, and I just couldn't be bothered to bust a gut closing the gap.

I have two subjects for discussion:

1) How to train effectively for this sort of racing....55 laps of a 1-1.5km circuit, 4-5 corners. I've been doing interval training sprinting up one side of a bridge, coasting down the other side, turning and sprinting up again, 8 sets x 2, and I've been doing some training races, and have had some really deep efforts in long breaks. Howevers, training race circuits really suit me as it's always smooth asphalt and easy bends where you don't have to brake.

Any ideas?

2) How does one get to, and stay at the front in crits? Despite being ex-elite I always sucked at this, and used to hang at the back. But I was a lot stronger then, and in an elite race everyone is good enough not to get dropped in the first laps, so it's less risky. and if you don't care about crits it doesn't matter anyway. However now I'm in the "amateurs" racing is pretty much restricted to crits, and the scene is dominated by absolute powerhouse crit specialists.

Bear in mind these races take place on narrow urban cobbled streets with sharp corners, and most of the race is single file....cutting up the inside on corners is not really tolerated. Seems that finding a good place in the first couple of laps is crucial, but everyone thinks that, and I just don't have the competitive drive to demand my place and resist attempts to pass me anymore.

any advice?

starting mid way in the pack is 90% of your problem in a crit
you have to ride in the top 10 to have control
since you have been out of racing a few years it's best to practice your bike handling skills so you can force your way into line at the front. Once people see you are strong enough to ride and command the respect needed to stay there. Your battles will become less with other riders. Good luck and do more short term intervals. Typically 70sec on with 20 sec of rest while still maintaining speed. Do 10 sets of these which equates to 15min of work done at 90% of maximum. Done correctly by starting the interval by sprinting up to break away speed and then holding at a high cadence during the 70sec period. 15minutes later you should feel like puking. After doing 3 sets of these doing crits are like walking to the local 7 eleven for a Slurpee. You will want to take as long as possible to recover between the 15minute sets. Heart rate should come back to 50-60% while easy pedaling before you continue.

 

[usedtobefast]

and keep your elbows out if you can. it sends the "don't f with me" message."

 

[4bidon]

well, I'm not really feeling comfortable giving advice to a former pro...

I agree, I feel out of place giving advice to a Euro-ex-elite rider too. People have posted lots of good stuff here, so I'll just add a few things we learned back in my day that helped us with some of #2.

As you say, the start, and the first several laps are CRITICAL, as important as the final two laps. Be mentally prepared to go like hell from the gun, stay up front and SUFFER EARLY, so you aren't among those getting eliminated at the back through traffic or lack of fitness. YOU are doing the eliminating. It may feel like you're dying, but the guys in back are dying 120%, especially since they're fighting the "accordion effect" after every corner. Rather than using your strength to unintentionally help them survive, use it up front moving smoothly at a speed that they can't handle. Eventually the pack will be reduced to the real players and the pace will settle in.

We used to do a very hard warmup so that we were ready to go full gas, then get to the start line before everyone else and take a spot in the front row. Place yourself for your best shot to the entrance of the first corner. Others will try to take your spot, but don't let them. At races where they call riders individually to the line you may not be able to pick your starting place, but when we could do it, it made a huge difference.

When the gun goes off, SPRINT and fight like hell for the first turn. Be one of the first several in, keep going, and rely on your deep elite strength to keep hammering and stay among the survivors. They used to tell us never to let ourselves fall further back than the first 1/3 of the pack, and if your races are narrow and twisty, all the more so.

You probably know all this already, but we kept getting hopelessly swamped within the first quarter of a race until we learned how to put some of this into action. A certain amount of demanding your place may be necessary. You earned it as an elite rider -- show these guys why they need to respect it.

Go, man!

 

[brianf7]

Crits are hard very hard so just keep riding them untill you are able to ride off the front. its lactate tollerance that you need. get that and you also get power.

 

[Mongol_Waaijer]

Thanks for all the advice fellas.

It's definitely the accordion effect and handling/cornering skills that are letting me down. I'm really out of rhythm and practice.

The fitness feels fine - I've done some brutal interval training, and I'm not far off where I used to be.

I guess even a strong rider can't hold last wheel in a 70 man crit on a 1.1km technical cobblestone circuit when out of race rhythm and handling skills, and closing all the gaps as the old accordion effect spits riders out.

I'll be up front next week.

In my elite days I was never fussed about crits and used to ride last wheel so I could slow before the corners, and then accelorate through them to neutralise the accordion effect. I think i reverted to type in the 1/2 crit last week, only too many guys up the line were popping and that gap closing is lung destroying.

 

[iliveonnitro]

I recently got to compare power files with a friend who was in the same 60min crit as me (P/1/2 in the USA, and about 6-7 domestic pros out of 110 riders). We weigh the same (68kg), he rode in the back and I rode between 5th and 20th wheel for this race. My average power was 252w, while his was 278w. Looking at Normalized Power was even more revealing -- mine was ~290w while his was ~330w. He, too, had to close a lot of gaps (60 people finished), and he thought it was one of the hardest crits of his life.

My 60min power at the time was 290-300w, so I would have been popped in this race if I were in his situation. Instead, I was in the money.

My own trick is to always start in the first row and fight -- sometimes more than you think is necessary -- to stay in the top 10. Move up at every chance you get. Take a couple seconds every lap to look around and see where you are, which usually ends up with me thinking that I need to move up a lot more. Elbows out, face in the wind if necessary, and take gaps in which you can barely fit.

 

[4bidon]

Thanks for all the advice fellas...I'll be up front next week...

Keep us posted—let us know how it's going!

 

[Mongol_Waaijer]

wow....the wattage data you posted is really revealing.....i've been constantly told there's a difference, but that's like riding in a whole new category!

I had another go the week after - ended up having to start right at the back, and the speed was mental, with way too many riders on a 1.1km poorly surfaced 6 corner(!) circuit. Noticed also that there is such a difference in ability between the best guys and the weakest guys. too much difference, and this only makes the need to stay at the front even more urgent, and the speed higher, meaning the back is not the place to be.

Already after 3-4 laps there were gaps opening up and I was pushing too deep trying to get from the back top the front, just doing anything possible. I kept on losing ground getting pushed to the outside in the corners, and again, I would be the one closing the gap, and then getting passed by the rdiers who let the gap open in the next corner after I'd got them back "on".

It was very frustrating....i ended up quitting pretty early on when a junior in front of me decided he didn't want to follow the single file of riders over a drain cover so swerved maniacally out of the line (into a headwind), and then couldn't get back on the wheel in front of him. I was too dead to close the gap.


but the next day I rode a club race on an "easy" circuit and took my frustrations out on the guys there, just going full gas on the front, attacking alone, bridging to any break that went without me, and generally reassuring myself that I can still ride hard.

Might try a few crits again soon, but am busy moving house right now. Have to spend the weekends painting....