Sky/Froome Talk Only (No Way Sky Are Cleans?)

May 3, 2010
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Discuss.

Some 'unbelievable' performances from Sky this weekend.

Wiggins climbing like the second coming of Armstrong. Froome's ITT. A British USP?

Or is it all down to weight loss and good positioning on the bike?
 
Sep 4, 2010
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Mrs John Murphy said:
Discuss.

Some 'unbelievable' performances from Sky this weekend.

Wiggins climbing like the second coming of Armstrong. Froome's ITT. A British USP?

Or is it all down to weight loss and good positioning on the bike?
Whats unbelieveable about it? Have you compared the time with something Armstrong has done? Is Dan Martin on the juice too? Is it not indicative of less doping that the likes of Martin are actually now winning stages at this level?
Sometimes (a lot of the time) this forum and its contributors don't know what they're talking about, always the sceptic. If evidence is available show it. Seems to me no matter who wins a lot of guys on here believe dope is involved.
 
You forgot high cadence....

Froome wasn't a bad Time Trialer (2nd to Brad last year at the UK champs), but he certainly one upped the team Captain today.

For what its worth, Froome is a bikepure role model as well.

I think the very technical training that sky/British cycling used to such sucess on the track is paying dividends here.

That and Brad losing a metric **** load of weight.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
I expected Chris to top ten in the time trial, and be comfortably inside the top ten on the overall after today (which i said yesterday). My feeling was we would see Martin, Cancellara as the top two, then Wiggins, with Chris pushing Brad close but not beating him.

Chris's time trialling ability is underrated.

But, Chris's big problem has been maintaining that consistency and form over long periods, ie. more than a week. Hes been brads domestique for week 1, I think he will drop back now and Lofkvist will step up to be the support guy for Brad for Week 2. think its very likely that Froome has put in everything he could into week 1, with the plan of Lofkvist and Zandio being the domestiques for the latter stages of the race.
 
Mar 11, 2009
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Froome is a talented young rider getting better all the time. This kind of break thru ride should not be a surprise to anyone.

And to me Wiggins was struggling a bit today after a really big effort yesterday.

I don't see any evidence of doping in either case - quite the opposite for me.
 
Oct 16, 2010
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Larry Finnegan said:
Whats unbelieveable about it? Have you compared the time with something Armstrong has done? Is Dan Martin on the juice too? Is it not indicative of less doping that the likes of Martin are actually now winning stages at this level?
Sometimes (a lot of the time) this forum and its contributors don't know what they're talking about, always the sceptic. If evidence is available show it. Seems to me no matter who wins a lot of guys on here believe dope is involved.
if you go to a forum on global warming, you'll find that a lot of posters on it believe the globe is actually warming up.
 
May 26, 2010
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180mmCrank said:
Froome is a talented young rider getting better all the time. This kind of break thru ride should not be a surprise to anyone.

And to me Wiggins was struggling a bit today after a really big effort yesterday.

I don't see any evidence of doping in either case - quite the opposite for me.
Did Froome not make a bigger effort yesterday?
 
A

Anonymous

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remember as well, that Froome is riding to try and get himself a contract for next season. As it stands he does not have a team for 2012.
 
May 26, 2010
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Larry Finnegan said:
Whats unbelieveable about it? Have you compared the time with something Armstrong has done? Is Dan Martin on the juice too? Is it not indicative of less doping that the likes of Martin are actually now winning stages at this level?
Sometimes (a lot of the time) this forum and its contributors don't know what they're talking about, always the sceptic. If evidence is available show it. Seems to me no matter who wins a lot of guys on here believe dope is involved.
has it not always been thus, with the few exceptions to the rule...what has changed?

What i think most people feel is that the doping is done during training and then small amounts (microdoping) during races.

If you read the clinic you'll realise that testing is down, see Gerard Vroomen's comments about testing, you'll have read Fei's comments about his stupidity in getting caught not the tests working and catching doping, and so it goes on.
 
Jul 3, 2009
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Normal* progression for Froome, even though this last jump has been rather high. Froome has always been able to climb and time trial, with the latter probably his better discipline. It's not exactly the "weight loss" model where a strong TT'er can become a much better climber, often at the expense of some TT'ing ability. He is only 25, it's hardly a magical leap in the middle of his career.

*Normal in that he has always been capable of being a GC rider at a reasonable level, not as a statement of conviction regarding his level cleanliness or filth.
 
Sep 4, 2010
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Benotti69 said:
has it not always been thus, with the few exceptions to the rule...what has changed?

What i think most people feel is that the doping is done during training and then small amounts (microdoping) during races.

If you read the clinic you'll realise that testing is down, see Gerard Vroomen's comments about testing, you'll have read Fei's comments about his stupidity in getting caught not the tests working and catching doping, and so it goes on.
If this is so why aren't the guys who have been caught in the past, served their time, the Basso's etc. wiping the floor with the likes of Dan Martin, Voeckler etc? I'm no doping apologist, but it weakens the anti doping position by blanketing everyone as juiced. I recently read a post on here relating Voeckler's riding style to testosterone abuse! I'm still not sure if this was a wind up! But making associations like this are ridiculous and deflect from the analytical examination of 'real' evidence of doping.
Maybe i'm just a silly optimist!
 
He has had good TTs in big races before, so the performance today can be accepted as a breakout.

But it is a struggle to find any mountain stage where he has finished in the top 50 though. Alpe di Siusi (27th @ 2'17") and Monte Petrano (24th @ 7'05") from the 2009 Giro are just about the best ones. Also, 9th @ 2'01" on a Brixia Tour 2010 stage.

I mean, he may have had good climbing potential, but you'd expect there to be some kind of incremental improvement in results before a big breakthrough such as this. There aren't really any results that suggest this kind of performance could've been expected from Froome.
 
Jul 3, 2009
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luckyboy said:
He has had good TTs in big races before, so the performance today can be accepted as a breakout.

But it is a struggle to find any mountain stage where he has finished in the top 50 though. Alpe di Siusi (27th @ 2'17") and Monte Petrano (24th @ 7'05") from the 2009 Giro are just about the best ones. Also, 9th @ 2'01" on a Brixia Tour 2010 stage.

I mean, he may have had good climbing potential, but you'd expect there to be some kind of incremental improvement in results before a big breakthrough such as this.
Finished in this group on the Monte Grappa stage last year:

17. [ITA] CATALDO Dario QST 04'46" 0
18. [ESP] MORENO FERNANDEZ Daniel OLO 04'46" 0
19. [NED] KRUIJSWIJK Steven RAB 04'46" 0
20. [FRA] VOECKLER Thomas BTL 04'46" 0
21. [ITA] BISOLTI Alessandro COG 04'46" 0
22. [RUS] KARPETS Vladimir KAT 04'46" 0
23. [GBR] FROOME Chris SKY 04'46" 0
24. [AUS] PORTE Richie SAX 04'46" 0
25. [FRA] GADRET John ALM 04'46" 0
26. [COL] ARDILA CANO Mauricio Alberto RAB 04'46" 0
27. [CRO] KISERLOVSKI Robert LIQ 04'46" 0
28. [RUS] TROFIMOV Yury BTL 04'46" 0
29. [DEN] SÖRENSEN Chris Anker SAX 04'46" 0
30. [ITA] CARUSO Giampaolo KAT 04'46" 0

I do not remember his position over the top of the climb though, don't have the footage on me either to check. Most of them are reasonable climbers without being exceptional. The next day on Zoncolan he was nowhere. I will be surprised (and a little concerned) if he stays at this level for 3 weeks.
 
Sep 4, 2010
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sniper said:
if you go to a forum on global warming, you'll find that a lot of posters on it believe the globe is actually warming up.
Yeah and you'll find a lot of them are crackpots too, who can't scientifically link reasons for global warming if it is actually happening. They just believe it is so!
 
Not to mention that my enduring image of him is doing a Taaramäe on San Luca in the '09 Giro.

the guy has always been able to climb, and looking at his record, he seems to get better at TTs the longer they are - his record in prologues is poor, but he was top 10 in the long Tour de Suisse TT this year, and 14th in the Chérilly ITT in the 2008 Tour.

Certainly his performance today doesn't raise any more eyebrows than Peter Velits last year. It's more or less the same kind of surprise.

I'll leave you all to draw your own conclusions as to what you want to think I'm saying.
 
Sep 4, 2010
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luckyboy said:
He has had good TTs in big races before, so the performance today can be accepted as a breakout.

But it is a struggle to find any mountain stage where he has finished in the top 50 though. Alpe di Siusi (27th @ 2'17") and Monte Petrano (24th @ 7'05") from the 2009 Giro are just about the best ones. Also, 9th @ 2'01" on a Brixia Tour 2010 stage.

I mean, he may have had good climbing potential, but you'd expect there to be some kind of incremental improvement in results before a big breakthrough such as this. There aren't really any results that suggest this kind of performance could've been expected from Froome.
Not that much of a struggle as you've just found three of them!
 
luckyboy said:
He has had good TTs in big races before, so the performance today can be accepted as a breakout.

But it is a struggle to find any mountain stage where he has finished in the top 50 though. Alpe di Siusi (27th @ 2'17") and Monte Petrano (24th @ 7'05") from the 2009 Giro are just about the best ones. Also, 9th @ 2'01" on a Brixia Tour 2010 stage.

I mean, he may have had good climbing potential, but you'd expect there to be some kind of incremental improvement in results before a big breakthrough such as this. There aren't really any results that suggest this kind of performance could've been expected from Froome.
Well he did quite well in a couple of climbs in Romandie and Suisse this year:


1 Juan Mauricio Soler (Col) Movistar Team 4:23:20
2 Damiano Cunego (Ita) Lampre - ISD 0:00:12
3 Frank Schleck (Lux) Leopard Trek
4 Danilo Di Luca (Ita) Katusha Team 0:00:16
5 Bauke Mollema (Ned) Rabobank Cycling Team 0:00:18
6 Levi Leipheimer (USA) Team RadioShack 0:00:34
7 Tejay Van Garderen (USA) HTC-Highroad 0:00:36
8 Mathias Frank (Swi) BMC Racing Team 0:00:39
9 Eros Capecchi (Ita) Liquigas-Cannondale 0:00:47
10 Laurens Ten Dam (Ned) Rabobank Cycling Team
11 Steven Kruijswijk (Ned) Rabobank Cycling Team
12 Chris Froome (GBr) Sky Procycling 0:00:56
 
Ah yeah, Crans Montana. Fair enough.

Libertine Seguros said:
Certainly his performance today doesn't raise any more eyebrows than Peter Velits last year. It's more or less the same kind of surprise.

I'll leave you all to draw your own conclusions as to what you want to think I'm saying.
If he manages to end up in around the same position as Velits was at the end of this Vuelta I think we will all know what is going on.

If he does fade spectacularly over the next two weeks then maybe this is just a case of expending all his energy getting a result.
 
luckyboy said:
If he manages to end up in around the same position as Velits was at the end of this Vuelta I think we will all know what is going on.

If he does fade spectacularly over the next two weeks then maybe this is just a case of expending all his energy getting a result.
Yea, pretty much agreed. I just left it open ended since I know people will put words into my mouth regardless. This is the Clinic, after all.
 
Jun 25, 2009
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He was injured quite a bit last year so his performances last year not looking that good is not much of a surprise. Thought he had the talent to be a 15-20 man on GC. Bit surprised at him doing this well though. Maybe its more a case of people like Cancellara, Wiggins, Kloden not doing as well as expected. Grabsch didnt do well, no Millar, Contador, Evans. Still a surprise though, only losing that number of seconds in a long tt, be interesting to see if he keeps it up.
 
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