Sky not so clean after all?

Jun 2, 2009
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Michael Rogers is well known to have worked with Dr Ferrari. And surely nobody believes Bobby Julich came third in the Tour de France at the height of the EPO era clean.
Is anyone else concerned about this trend? I would prefer all the team members and managers to be people with a clean reputation.
 
Oct 25, 2010
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Right now, I think the term "clean racing team" has about as much credibility as a low-tar "diet" cigarette does in regards to health.

We're being played and the situation is being managed. I think Kimmage is really on to something.
 
A

Anonymous

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Dont forget Dave Brailsford was having dinner with Millar when he got arrested,Dr Steve Peters, well, hes a doctor, enough said, Yates rode at postal, Do Jongh road at Rabobank, Flecha is Spanish, Barry rode with armstrong, Sciandri, the list goes on. :rolleyes:
 
I would say that it's less than ideal. For me though it's more important that a team that says they have a strict anti-doping stance first of all doesn't have any doping cases with riders on the team and secondly that they aren't among the teams that hire a rider that has recently returned from a ban.

I still find it awkward but it's degrees less so than if they would hire Pellizotti and that in turn would be degrees less than to hire Ricco.
 
Jun 2, 2009
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Millar v Rogers

Well to my mind they've both doped but only one has fessed up. I would much rather Millar had a spot in Sky than Rogers. Though technically for the truly gullible Rogers is still 'a clean rider'
 

MadonePro

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Feb 21, 2010
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benlondon said:
Well to my mind they've both doped but only one has fessed up. I would much rather Millar had a spot in Sky than Rogers. Though technically for the truly gullible Rogers is still 'a clean rider'
I've known 'Micky' for years, and your comment is like the poster 'full of excreta'.

Maybe, just maybe, riders aren't all dopers, ever thought that. Interestingly, if you can be bothered to research it, the riders who are getting caught, aren't part of a bigger picture, just doing it individually!
 
Mar 10, 2009
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MadonePro said:
I've known 'Micky' for years, and your comment is like the poster 'full of excreta'.

Maybe, just maybe, riders aren't all dopers, ever thought that. Interestingly, if you can be bothered to research it, the riders who are getting caught, aren't part of a bigger picture, just doing it individually!
Really? Have you heard of Puerto? Or the Austrian/Freiberg clinic? Or the recent Italian investigation which resulted in 30-40 people and riders being arrested? :rolleyes:
 
Of course Team Sky aren't so clean after all. There were already riders who had ties to doping on the team even despite the 'nobody with anything against them ever' policy. And they've also found out just how nigh-on impossibly difficult it is to find DSes and staffers with no ties to dope since most of them were riding at the height of the EPO era.

Putting together a team at that level with an aim of all people with no links to doping whatsoever would result in picking a team which was full mostly of people who are relatively young (as the EPO era and Ferrari/Fuentes era covers such a huge amount of riders), being managed by people who are incredibly inexperienced (since the majority of DSes and co these days were riding during said eras).

Sky may have had noble goals but they're finding out just how hard it is to stay true to them. Better to have reformed possible or probable dopers of the past who are clean today and can get results clean and guide the youngsters than to be cannon fodder and have no idea what you're doing.
 

buckwheat

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Sep 24, 2009
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MadonePro said:
I've known 'Micky' for years, and your comment is like the poster 'full of excreta'.

Maybe, just maybe, riders aren't all dopers, ever thought that. Interestingly, if you can be bothered to research it, the riders who are getting caught, aren't part of a bigger picture, just doing it individually!
History and current events say otherwise.
 
MadonePro said:
Maybe, just maybe, riders aren't all dopers, ever thought that. Interestingly, if you can be bothered to research it, the riders who are getting caught, aren't part of a bigger picture, just doing it individually!
Was your 'research' limited to Bernard Kohl's first statement after being caught? Or did it also include such in-depth sources as the statements of every rider that was caught doping in the last 12 years or so?
 
Jun 12, 2010
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Libertine Seguros said:
Of course Team Sky aren't so clean after all. There were already riders who had ties to doping on the team even despite the 'nobody with anything against them ever' policy. And they've also found out just how nigh-on impossibly difficult it is to find DSes and staffers with no ties to dope since most of them were riding at the height of the EPO era.

Putting together a team at that level with an aim of all people with no links to doping whatsoever would result in picking a team which was full mostly of people who are relatively young (as the EPO era and Ferrari/Fuentes era covers such a huge amount of riders), being managed by people who are incredibly inexperienced (since the majority of DSes and co these days were riding during said eras).

Sky may have had noble goals but they're finding out just how hard it is to stay true to them. Better to have reformed possible or probable dopers of the past who are clean today and can get results clean and guide the youngsters than to be cannon fodder and have no idea what you're doing.
From the onset and with BC theres been "dodgy history" peeps involved ..but little of the history is in the public domain.
I doupt what we "know" is a 10th of what those who realy know, know.
Ie , the ones with theres snouts deepest in the trough.:(
 
Libertine Seguros said:
Of course Team Sky aren't so clean after all. There were already riders who had ties to doping on the team even despite the 'nobody with anything against them ever' policy. And they've also found out just how nigh-on impossibly difficult it is to find DSes and staffers with no ties to dope since most of them were riding at the height of the EPO era.

Putting together a team at that level with an aim of all people with no links to doping whatsoever would result in picking a team which was full mostly of people who are relatively young (as the EPO era and Ferrari/Fuentes era covers such a huge amount of riders), being managed by people who are incredibly inexperienced (since the majority of DSes and co these days were riding during said eras).

Sky may have had noble goals but they're finding out just how hard it is to stay true to them. Better to have reformed possible or probable dopers of the past who are clean today and can get results clean and guide the youngsters than to be cannon fodder and have no idea what you're doing.
Good post. Putting together a team that contains no suspect riders/staff is probably close to impossible, as every cyclist with results in the 90s and 2000s is suspect. Honestly, I don't really care that they have previous dopers on the team such as Cioni and Barry because it certainly seems like they are clean now. Probably outright impossible to find an experienced DS who's a former rider who's not tied to doping in some way.

If Sky were doing any sort of organized doping, they certainly are doing it wrong. I think every rider on the team except from Downing and Thomas + a few more had a lot less CQ points in 2010 than they got in 2009. Some of them even went from being good climbers to being dropped on every hill...
 
Mar 18, 2009
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MadonePro said:
I've known 'Micky' for years, and your comment is like the poster 'full of excreta'.

Maybe, just maybe, riders aren't all dopers, ever thought that. Interestingly, if you can be bothered to research it, the riders who are getting caught, aren't part of a bigger picture, just doing it individually!
*Checks off "Obligatory person who knows the rider and vouches for him" post*

Wow, this thread has a full line on the bingo card of stereotypical ridiculous excuses already! Keep it up guys!

As 99.9% of people who were ever close to any doper will tell you, they all had their minds blown when they found out that the guy they knew so well all their lives and who would never lie to them.....had lied to them all along and was in fact doping the entire time.
 
benlondon said:
And surely nobody believes Bobby Julich came third in the Tour de France at the height of the EPO era clean.
You realize that 1/2 the peloton went home, right? In 1997 he finished 1 hour down. The next time he finished (2000), he was 1:44 down. I'm not saying he's clean...but you can't convict him of doping based on 3rd place alone when all the Spanish teams left. :rolleyes:
 
Willy_Voet said:
You realize that 1/2 the peloton went home, right? In 1997 he finished 1 hour down. The next time he finished (2000), he was 1:44 down. I'm not saying he's clean...but you can't convict him of doping based on 3rd place alone when all the Spanish teams left. :rolleyes:
This is better discussed in the Julich thread, but the only riders who could have taken his podium away from him were Virenque, Dufaux and Zülle. Escartín was in a good position but still at a disadvantage, and ONCE were busy having one of their usual silly Tours. Olano had abandoned in the first mountain stage so Banesto was just hunting for stages, and Vitalicio didn't have a GT contender.
 
Jun 15, 2009
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TeamSkyFans said:
Dont forget Dave Brailsford was having dinner with Millar when he got arrested,Dr Steve Peters, well, hes a doctor, enough said, Yates rode at postal, Do Jongh road at Rabobank, Flecha is Spanish, Barry rode with armstrong, Sciandri, the list goes on. :rolleyes:
But at least, EBH is as squeaking clean as they come. Roosevelt said it in 1940. "Look to Norway". As an immigrant of some thirty years to this country, I've come to appreciate the subtle nuances of Scandinavia and scandinavians. Winning through doping is about as low as you could possibly get in this neck of the woods, and the Norwegian Cycling Assoc. prez. Tiedemann Hansen's outcry against the RFEC prez this week should figure high on the UCI talking-points list in the coming months.
 
hrotha said:
This is better discussed in the Julich thread, but the only riders who could have taken his podium away from him were Virenque, Dufaux and Zülle. Escartín was in a good position but still at a disadvantage, and ONCE were busy having one of their usual silly Tours. Olano had abandoned in the first mountain stage so Banesto was just hunting for stages, and Vitalicio didn't have a GT contender.
His point didn't make any sense anyway seeing as Julich finished 4 minutes down on Pantani in 98, not an hour.
 
TeamSkyFans said:
Dont forget Dave Brailsford was having dinner with Millar when he got arrested,Dr Steve Peters, well, hes a doctor, enough said, Yates rode at postal, Do Jongh road at Rabobank, Flecha is Spanish, Barry rode with armstrong, Sciandri, the list goes on. :rolleyes:
Sky sports news: How do you respond to the Landis claims that you doped
Barry: The whole Landis thing is very unfortunate.
 
MadonePro said:
I've known 'Micky' for years, and your comment is like the poster 'full of excreta'.

Maybe, just maybe, riders aren't all dopers, ever thought that. Interestingly, if you can be bothered to research it, the riders who are getting caught, aren't part of a bigger picture, just doing it individually!
Did he get value for money in terms of the training regime Michele provided him?
 
luckyboy said:
His point didn't make any sense anyway seeing as Julich finished 4 minutes down on Pantani in 98, not an hour.
To be fair Pantani also won the Giro. People like Basso, Menchov, Simoni and Gotti :)() didn't even finish in the top 20 when they tried to ride the Tour for GC after winning the Giro.
 
Mar 19, 2010
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Willy_Voet said:
Thor Hushovd won races at the height of the "Operacion Puerto" era so he must be dirty, too. ;)
Of course, the people who were clean most probably don't win many races. I think now you need a massive dose of natural talent. However might science still have a grip on the sport? I don't know.

I think sky tried playing it clever and I sincerely believe in their "aggregation of marginal gains" philosophy; although I think they would have been better keeping this to themselves and just being weird and british, with their eccentricities.

There is nothing wrong with an old doper. Just as the most loving husband may have committed an infidelity. A driving instructor broken rules on the road. Etc, etc. I don't know any saints personally, but I know good people.
 
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