So both leaders go out, one team ends up with 3 stages and the kom Jersey, the other no stage wins. How do people think things would have played out with both riders still in the race?
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sky vs tinkoff
- Thread starter karlboss
- Start date
maxmartin said:Is this another disguised VN v. AC v.CF thread?
It wasn't supposed to be. I have been a little surprised at Sky. Looking at the profiles after Porte fell away, I've been surprised they haven't been as active in breaks as TST, or Europcar for that matter. Really they have been quite haphazard in their approach to stage wins, hoping more than anything, where as TST have targeted stages and nailed them.
I was wondering are Sky just weak, or did they lose their self belief and their performances would have ben stronger if they still had their leader. What will this lead to next year?
If indeed TST are this much stronger than Sky, but Froome was stronger than Contador, would it have mattered?
- Mar 17, 2009
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I get the sense that maybe Sky is a bit burned out and also overrated. As to the later point, I mean they really haven't had much of a tactic the last two years beyond, ride fast, smash favorites group and let Froome loose. They were built for that sole goal and when he came up short, they scrambled for a Plan B who promptly demonstrated himself to be exactly who we thought he was pre-Sky.
I'm pretty impressed that Tinkoff managed to salvage their Tour so-to-speak. They easily could have lost momentum and morale after Contador's untimely departure.
I'm pretty impressed that Tinkoff managed to salvage their Tour so-to-speak. They easily could have lost momentum and morale after Contador's untimely departure.
- Mar 20, 2010
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According to an Oleg interview TS were pretty depressed when Alberto departed. But Bjarne had a big team and staff meeting and all his team building skills came into play. Evidently he is very good at motivating people and the team was renewed, with new goals and raised spirits. The proof of his success is shown on the road in this Tour.
karlboss said:
That's not really true though.
Until stage 13 they had Richie Porte in 2nd place.
In the 5 stages since:
14 - Nieve and Thomas in the break. Majka too strong for them.
15 - sprint stage
16- Kiryienka in the winning move with Rogers. Finished 3rd,
17- Kiryienka the final rider in the break swept up by the favourites.
18 - Nieve, Lopez in break. Nieve the final rider in the break swept up by Nibali.
Other than staying in the favourites group and out climbing them I don't see what they could have done differently.
It's pretty clear that Sky was a one-tactic entry this year with an intended winner being given strong support so that he would be able to be devastating where it mattered. With Porte's loss of form /health (must be the latter) it was clear that the others had no ability to step up for stage wins.
It looks like Tinkoff Saxo had better all-round ability to give that support, only the one to be supported lost his focus (according to v.d. Broeck who was just behind him when he went down).
It looks like Tinkoff Saxo had better all-round ability to give that support, only the one to be supported lost his focus (according to v.d. Broeck who was just behind him when he went down).
- Mar 20, 2010
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And now Garmin comes through after losing Talansky!! Their focus was all for him, just as Sky was for Froome and Saxo was for Contador.
But Saxo and Sky had the biggest falls in spirit IMO, they were both gunning for a Win from the outset, not a top 5 or a few stages.
Still nice recovery by Saxo, OPQS and Garmin.
But Saxo and Sky had the biggest falls in spirit IMO, they were both gunning for a Win from the outset, not a top 5 or a few stages.
Still nice recovery by Saxo, OPQS and Garmin.
- Aug 18, 2010
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I don't think it's really about tactics or even morale. Majka, Roche, Rogers are stronger than Porte, Nieve, Kiryienka at least in their current form. I mean when you have the two strongest guys in a large break on a mountain stage, winning is more expected than surprising.
- Aug 18, 2010
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Carols said:
Well sure, they could have rolled up in a ball and sulked. But they are professionals. It should be expected that they will give some other plans a try. Same with Sky - they did try to put their strongest guys in the obvious breaks, but their strongest just aren't as strong.
Contador, whatever his own form turned out to be, was going to have a savagely strong team. Froome was merely going to have a decentish one. At best, when you remember it turned out that Porte has no form.
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Carols said:
If Contador hadn't hit the tarmac, they most likely never would've been given the opportunity to be in the breaks either.
I'm sure the mood was low right after the withdrawal, but these are professionals who can see that one door closing means more opportunities to showcase their own abilities. I don't think Sky has performed poorly due to low morale, but rather to poor form. Like Zinoviev Letter just stated, it it more about strength than morale IMO.
- Mar 15, 2011
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kenk09 said:
Needs to be pointed out again. Only narrowly weaker than Saxo.
Team strength his hard to factor into the overall individual battle
The way I see it, Froome needs his team less than AC needs his to dominate, but Froome needs his team more in a crisis than AC needs his team, if that makes sense. I think the final Dauphine stage illustrates the 'crisis' situation, as AC managed himself way better than Froome did his self. On the other side, I think that once/if Froome got away from the favorites, he would have build up more time than AC would have.
That said, given this years course, there were many more opportunities for chaos: many more situations where AC could outfox Sky without having to employ his team's muscle.
thehog
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- Jul 27, 2009
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xanadu said:
Truth be told Sky's squad was poor last year outside or Porte/Froome. Froome powerhouse win covered over the cracks of a very weak team.
This year sans Dawg and Porte riding at his true talent level you realise the Sky team are underdone. Considering all those marginal gains they have they'd be even worse.
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More Strides than Rides said:
I really strongly disagree with that. Sky made similar tactical decisions to TS, as the post you were responding to points out. They failed not because they were sulking or demoralised or didn't try anything, nor because of luck. TS got three stages and a jersey doing much the same think as Sky because they were considerably stronger, particularly when comparing the form of the three notionally strongest riders on each team after the loss of their leaders.
Contador would have had a considerably stronger team than Froome. But I do actually agree with you that it's very unclear how much difference that would make in practice if super-Froone showed up like last year.
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Zinoviev Letter said:
Rumours about Pinot and Konig heading to Sky nice plans B & C if it happens.
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