Slipstream: Has their time passed?

[BroDeal]

Team Slipstream's idea to promote clean cycling looked like a good plan after operation puerto. The team's philosophy was inline with the zeitgeist through the first half of 2008 as everyone fell over each other to promote the new clean cycling But it appears the times have changed with the UCI refusing to test for CERA, the welcoming back of Armstrong, the halting of the targeted testing that was used to catch Vino and his posse, the construction of an elaborate scam in the form of the bio-passport, and an economy that makes everyone in the sport fearful of the financial fallout of scandal. Has Slipstream's time passed?

The team is getting murdered in the Giro. Even riders like Cunego and Simoni are suffering and are alluding to doping. It looks like the old ways, which were never really old, are back with a vengeance. Armstrong's miraculous form after three years off indicates that the arms race is back on, and everyone will need to arrive at the TdF totally strapped.

 

[Stani Kléber]

I fear you are right. But I still think they are doing the right thing. Just as people dope, a percentage of dopers will eventually get caught and when the headlines are full of scandal, Vaughters will be vindicated. Doing the right thing won't go out of fashion.

More importantly, away from headlines and results they are allowing riders to operate in a team culture without doping. Whether they win or not, this matters a lot.

 

[BroDeal]

More importantly, away from headlines and results they are allowing riders to operate in a team culture without doping. Whether they win or not, this matters a lot.

Eventually it will when it comes to sponsorship money.

 

[flyor64]

The last I read, their main sponsor seemed pleased with them, and I hope it continues...

I hope it's not all in vain. The optimist in me feels if they can survive the short-term "downs", they'll reap huge rewards in the long term...

Additionally, I thought Farrar had a heckuva run there...consistent top 5s and 2nd places to Cav and Petacchi on his home turf is nothing to be ashamed of in my book. He got talked about alot during the sprint stages and the usually equals content sponsors doesn't it?

 

[Snake8]

Nah, they overachieved last year, underachieving slightly this year so far. About right for a middle tier team without any true alpha dogs in the sprint classics or GT's.

 

[Sheltowee]

And the big red flag pops up: what was Vendeveld cooking on at the Tour last year? He was a mule his entire career with Postal, Riijs--and with Saiz for a season, I think? and all of a sudden he blosums in 08 in the Tour de France because he had changed his diet? Come on.

 

[agasson]

I agree with BroDeal all indicators point to no one gives a stuff. Giro inviting HogStream with open arms as money talks, same for Le Tour. Fullof**** McQuaid more interested in power grabs and rubbing shoulders with "personalities" than tackling the problem hence his lip service without action. Then result at Giro - de Luca out front like a loco from day1, and at end of day 16 its still the 'old suspects'

I was thinking it would be interesting a databse of statements/actions/non-actions made by people over years as well as linkages to others (ie convicted doper) and then an evaluation of this info as whether a doper supporter or not. Anyone know of any site that has this kind of linkage? Would love to see McQuaid and his actions out there in a historical timeline showing that he doesnt give a ****

 

[rolfrae]

Team Slipstream's idea to promote clean cycling looked like a good plan after operation puerto. The team's philosophy was inline with the zeitgeist through the first half of 2008 as everyone fell over each other to promote the new clean cycling But it appears the times have changed with the UCI refusing to test for CERA, the welcoming back of Armstrong, the halting of the targeted testing that was used to catch Vino and his posse, the construction of an elaborate scam in the form of the bio-passport, and an economy that makes everyone in the sport fearful of the financial fallout of scandal. Has Slipstream's time passed?

The team is getting murdered in the Giro. Even riders like Cunego and Simoni are suffering and are alluding to doping. It looks like the old ways, which were never really old, are back with a vengeance. Armstrong's miraculous form after three years off indicates that the arms race is back on, and everyone will need to arrive at the TdF totally strapped.

JV has high hopes for Dan Martin winning the white jersey at the Tour this year, but maybe that's as far as their jersey ambitions should go. They don't stand a chance against the likes of Contador, Armstrong, Menchov, Piti and all the others for whom little has changed.

I wonder how long these young clean talents, on Garmin and Columbia will put up with having their careers stunted by others' doping?

 

[Black Dog]

[quote/]But it appears the times have changed with the UCI refusing to test for CERA, the welcoming back of Armstrong, the halting of the targeted testing that was used to catch Vino and his posse, the construction of an elaborate scam in the form of the bio-passport, and an economy that makes everyone in the sport fearful of the financial fallout of scandal.[/QUOTE]

Huh? Is it true that the UCI is not testing for CERA? Is it true that there is no targeted testing? How is the biological passport a scam?


[quote/]The team is getting murdered in the Giro. Even riders like Cunego and Simoni are suffering and are alluding to doping. It looks like the old ways, which were never really old, are back with a vengeance. Armstrong's miraculous form after three years off indicates that the arms race is back on, and everyone will need to arrive at the TdF totally strapped.[/QUOTE]

Levi suffered does that make him clean by default? Cunego and Simoni must have doped when they won; by your logic. I am no fan of Armstrong but a year of hard training and no amazing results since his return is hardly grounds for a miracle.

 

[Black Dog]

[quote/]But it appears the times have changed with the UCI refusing to test for CERA, the welcoming back of Armstrong, the halting of the targeted testing that was used to catch Vino and his posse, the construction of an elaborate scam in the form of the bio-passport, and an economy that makes everyone in the sport fearful of the financial fallout of scandal.

Huh? Is it true that the UCI is not testing for CERA? Is it true that there is no targeted testing? How is the biological passport a scam?


[quote/]The team is getting murdered in the Giro. Even riders like Cunego and Simoni are suffering and are alluding to doping. It looks like the old ways, which were never really old, are back with a vengeance. Armstrong's miraculous form after three years off indicates that the arms race is back on, and everyone will need to arrive at the TdF totally strapped.[/QUOTE]

Levi suffered does that make him clean by default? Cunego and Simoni must have doped when they won; by your logic. I am no fan of Armstrong but a year of hard training and no amazing results since his return is hardly grounds for a miracle.[/QUOTE]

 

[urace4me2]

Maybe because their ONLY GC HOPE and team leader crashed out???

 

[Jarvis]

Slipstream still matter, they're having a duff season so far other but some notable results are starting to come - Farrar and Martin. Lampre are also having a pretty rubbish year. But Garmin haven't been going well in the last week of the Giro, but that said, Columbia have also been going backwards as the roads go up and Cunego isn't the same as he used to be.

Cunego and Simoni must have doped when they won; by your logic.

And? You think they didn't? On the evidence available I'd say the chances are they did. I'd also say that Cunego has ridden for the last couple of years like a rider who, if not clean, is cleaner than he was and Simoni like someone who is in their late-30's (unlike a notable other)

 

[RdBiker]

Team Slipstream's idea to promote clean cycling looked like a good plan after operation puerto. The team's philosophy was inline with the zeitgeist through the first half of 2008 as everyone fell over each other to promote the new clean cycling But it appears the times have changed with the UCI refusing to test for CERA, the welcoming back of Armstrong, the halting of the targeted testing that was used to catch Vino and his posse, the construction of an elaborate scam in the form of the bio-passport, and an economy that makes everyone in the sport fearful of the financial fallout of scandal. Has Slipstream's time passed?

The team is getting murdered in the Giro. Even riders like Cunego and Simoni are suffering and are alluding to doping. It looks like the old ways, which were never really old, are back with a vengeance. Armstrong's miraculous form after three years off indicates that the arms race is back on, and everyone will need to arrive at the TdF totally strapped.

Well now now BroDeal. You assume that all the riders at Slipstream have been clean since the team started. It might be so but in professional cycling you can never be 100% sure. I would believe all of them to be clean if it weren't for Vandevelde. Like Kohl said, it's nearly impossible to finish high in the GC in the Tour de France without PEDs. And Kohl rode last year's Tour. This time last year people talked how the peloton had clearly cleaned up but I didn't believe it then and I don't believe it now. Festina didn't change a thing so it's not a surprise that Puerto didn't change anything either. Though now it seems that teams don't even bother to pretend to be cleaning things up

But your question was if Slipstream's time has passed and my answer is: not yet IMO. Their sponsor will stay onboard for at least 2010 and maybe 2011 but if they don't provide results by then I think they'll have to look for another sponsor and change their ways. Or that's how I see it.

 

[dgodave]

Am I hallucinating? Did "Garmin" change to "Slipstream" in the thread title, and some of the posts?
.

 

[Jarvis]

Interchangeable and applicable

 

[franciep10]

Am I hallucinating? Did "Garmin" change to "Slipstream" in the thread title, and some of the posts?
.

The group that runs the team is slipstream, Garmin is the title sponsor.

 

[dgodave]

Interchangeable and applicable

Sure. But its wierd to see it get edited in the thread title.
.

 

[Escarabajo]

These are the things that make me mad about loving cycling. I was with a group of friends over the weekend that did not know much about cycling other than doping. Then, I was a little upset about it and asked them about which sport they liked? So I went on one by one trying to explain why cycling is the only one taking the extra steps but other sports just had strong "Mafias" that kept everything under the rug: Soccer, Baseball (Not Anymore), Tennis, etc. Finally I kind of convinced some of the people (Only the realistic ones) but other people were upset at me and started telling me that just because I liked a sport that was full of doping I did not had to take it against the other sports. So I decided to quit my explanations.

Now back to the topic. Because of situations like this is why people like Johan Bruyneel and the UCI try to hide it and cover up sometimes. They are always alleging that the other sports also cover up to avoid bad publicity, and in times of economic distress it makes it even worse. I guess that's probably the reason why they kind of went backwards on doping control. It kind of makes the Garmin-Slipstream team look bad now but as somebody said being honest is never out of fashion.

I think they should hold tough in these rough times. As for the sponsors we need to find a better way to send a message of riding clean. If they received an ultimatum about winning before certain time it puts pressure on the team members and that's how you get started with doping in the first place. I guess the only teams that do not have that problem are the French ones; otherwise they would not have one team right now, because you know how they have sucked during the last years (well, maybe not Festina).

 

[mortimer99]

garmin

What I don't understand is why in this Giro are they at least not in the breaks? Viscontti has been in almost all of them. Garmin is advertising like crazy at the event, you would think the DS would make sure a Garmin guy was in the break at least once.

 

[Ibanez]

Yeah they have not been visible at all. I think they only have 5(?) riders left though.

Wiggins has a chance for a result in the TT so will be taking it easy. Ditto Zabriskie, but I dont see him doing as well.
Tommy D is........Tommy D
Dean had barely raced and was there for Farrar, doubt he could make a break.
That leaves Pate I think, who had a decent tour break last year so might be capable of another one.

 

[kjetilraknerud]

Columbia have also been going backwards as the roads go up

I believe Columbia will be quite happy with the Giro, no matter what happens on the mountain stages. I think Rogers will finish in the top 10 - not bad at all. And so far they have five stage wins from three riders plus the TTT, and they have worn the pink and the white jersey (plus the purple on loan from Di Luca). It's almost an insult the mention them in the same sentence at Garmin regarding performance in the Giro

 

[Ibanez]

I believe Columbia will be quite happy with the Giro, no matter what happens on the mountain stages. I think Rogers will finish in the top 10 - not bad at all. And so far they have five stage wins from three riders plus the TTT, and they have worn the pink and the white jersey (plus the purple on loan from Di Luca). It's almost an insult the mention them in the same sentence at Garmin regarding performance in the Giro

Aye. Shame Lovkist has lost bianca, he would have been a good winner, looking like a man with potential for a while now. Been around for ages, hard to believe hes still so young.

 

[kjetilraknerud]

As I said in another thread, I think Løvkvist will be a great force in GT's and classics when he has grown even stronger in a couple of years, and he will still only be 26-27 years. Remember he finished 6th in La Fleche Wallonne as well.

 

[BroDeal]

Well now now BroDeal. You assume that all the riders at Slipstream have been clean since the team started. It might be so but in professional cycling you can never be 100% sure. I would believe all of them to be clean if it weren't for Vandevelde. Like Kohl said, it's nearly impossible to finish high in the GC in the Tour de France without PEDs. And Kohl rode last year's Tour. This time last year people talked how the peloton had clearly cleaned up but I didn't believe it then and I don't believe it now. Festina didn't change a thing so it's not a surprise that Puerto didn't change anything either. Though now it seems that teams don't even bother to pretend to be cleaning things up

Not at all. I have said in other posts that I don't trust Vande Velde because of his team history and his increase in performance. I tend to believe that riders like the Z-Man, Tommy D, Millar, and such are clean because they have markedly decreased performance from a few years ago. If those guys are doping then they must be going to Dr. Yugo instead of Dr. Ferrari.

 

[RdBiker]

Not at all. I have said in other posts that I don't trust Vande Velde because of his team history and his increase in performance. I tend to believe that riders like the Z-Man, Tommy D, Millar, and such are clean because they have markedly decreased performance from their a few years ago. If those guys are doping then they must be going to Dr. Yugo instead of Dr. Ferrari.

Well yes that's true. Their performances have been lower than in previous years (Zabriskie with CSC for example). Though the sad thing is that you can't be sure about them being clean even though they ride worse than before. They might be doping but less than before.

It would be interesting to know how well would for example a non-doped Contador fare against the top riders at the moment.