So what will be the next drug of choice?

[craig1985]

We have a test for EPO, CERA, and in the next few years, a test for autologous blood transfusions (for those who may not be aware, autologous is when you take your own blood out and re-inject, thus undetectable so far), and if Landis is to believed, everybody went off the EPO and on to the transfusions once the EPO test was created (at least it was the case at Postal)?

So will be the next drug of choice that riders will take to try and go one step better? There is HGH and we have a test for it, but at this stage it appears that unless the anti doping controllers pin the athlete no more then 36 hours after taking HGH, and the athlete has a good lawyer, he/she may have enough to get off from being convicted, as once the 36 window expires, it isn't conclusive enough.

 

[nesocip]

Autoglas is car window in german or something, and autologous is the word you need.

 

[theswordsman]

Autoglas is car window in german or something, and autologous is the word you need.

A rock chipped my car windshield. Autoglas fixed me right up. Highly recommended

On the doping question - I remember a list of things one of the doctors suggested were probably in use at the 2009 Tour, and I haven't heard more about any of them since. If they can retroactively test for own blood infusions, they could probably just replace the current peloton. The cheaters are way ahead of the testers with stuff I couldn't dream of. The biological passport is useless with the UCI in charge.

I was starting to consider watching the Vuelta a Espana. Then it hit me that this Tour was only clean (I only consider one performance suspicious for this year, while some guys now have me suspecting previous years) because the AFLD was allowed to use police info to suggest targets, the WADA/AMA were watching every move by the UCI, and Landis told Ashended how guys dope for the Tour, with corroboration by Kohl.

Two of those things end today. I can picture guys who looked beat up for three weeks to get home Monday, go to the fridge and pop a cold one (True Blood?) and be back to "normal" for the rest of the season.

Law enforcements is the way forward.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Well, peptides like Hemomer or Hematide are already here, as is Dynepo. All of which are likely being used, or at least microdosed by those who have access to it.

Who knows what level of access there truly is to Repoxygen, though it's likely a test is in the works as it's being developed.

Who knows how well stem-cell gene doping really works, and if it really is accessible. Side effects could be startling to those who dare try it.

 

[craig1985]

Autoglas is car window in german or something, and autologous is the word you need.

Duly noted and fixed.

 

[Benotti69]

well the tour finished today and they won the Team Award, so its coke, blow and nice skimpily dressed young ladies, who are not officially PEDs but they can get the blood flowing to a certain muscle or so i'm told

 

[The Real Deal]

So will be the next drug of choice that riders will take to try and go one step better?.

Beta-Alanine & a high performance creatine have done wonders for my power output. No more lactic acid build up.

Highly recommended PED's. Although blood values could be suspect.

All legal.

 

[saganftw]

young ladies, who are not officially PEDs but they can get the blood flowing to a certain muscle or so i'm told

you need to be told that?

 

[Benotti69]

you need to be told that?

i was talking about a certain establishment of which i have never attended, but if your willing to put up the necessary $$$$ i can be probably easily convinced too

 

[redtreviso]

We have a test for EPO, CERA, and in the next few years, a test for autologous blood transfusions (for those who may not be aware, autologous is when you take your own blood out and re-inject, thus undetectable so far), and if Landis is to believed, everybody went off the EPO and on to the transfusions once the EPO test was created (at least it was the case at Postal)?

So will be the next drug of choice that riders will take to try and go one step better? There is HGH and we have a test for it, but at this stage it appears that unless the anti doping controllers pin the athlete no more then 36 hours after taking HGH, and the athlete has a good lawyer, he/she may have enough to get off from being convicted, as once the 36 window expires, it isn't conclusive enough.

I don't think Landis really meant they went off of EPO..They used it differently in conjunction with transfusions for dilution. I think he meant they didn't JUST hit up EPO.

 

[shouldawouldacoulda]

Who knows how well stem-cell gene doping really works, and if it really is accessible. Side effects could be startling to those who dare try it.

The money in sport is just getting bigger and bigger. I think you are right about this: Gene doping will be the next big thing, if it isn't already in some sports with more money than biking.

I also agree they'll continue to look at drugs the improve the efficiency of oxygen use/exchange.

 

[The Real Deal]

Who knows how well stem-cell gene doping really works, and if it really is accessible. Side effects could be startling to those who dare try it.

No one thus far on this thread have accused Armstrong of using it.

Well done fella's.

I know its hard, a struggle far greater than the hardest climb, lets hang in there, an Armstrong free-thread zone. Possible?. Is my name Michael Jackson?.

 

[The Hitch]

Who knows how well stem-cell gene doping really works, and if it really is accessible. Side effects could be startling to those who dare try it.

The money in sport is just getting bigger and bigger. I think you are right about this: Gene doping will be the next big thing, if it isn't already in some sports with more money than biking.

I also agree they'll continue to look at drugs the improve the efficiency of oxygen use/exchange.

Do tell. To those less informed of us, how does gene doping work, what athletes will benefit from it, etc?

 

[turtlesoup]

Do tell. To those less informed of us, how does gene doping work, what athletes will benefit from it, etc?

article in popular science a while back i think around the time of the last summer olympics i'll try and find the article.

found it

http://www.popsci.com/technology/article/2010-02/gene-therapy-marks-next-frontier-sports-doping

 

[The Real Deal]

I also agree they'll continue to look at drugs the improve the efficiency of oxygen use/exchange.

http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/ener.htm

http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/


Are you willing to put in the research?.


The fastest guys at the Tour testing negative certainly have.

Cancellara's favorite links.

 

[shouldawouldacoulda]

Do tell. To those less informed of us, how does gene doping work, what athletes will benefit from it, etc?

I don't really know much about about it. @turtlesoup had a good intro link. I've read similar articles and was agreeing with an earlier point made by @Alpe d'Huez.

Wikipedia has an entry with some interesting references as well.

 

[Ninety5rpm]

Genetically engineered agents custom designed for a specific rider are difficult if not impossible (practically speaking) to detect.

When you see a 23 year old kid rival the best of the best, get suspicious. Oh, that happened already in 2009...

 

[Colm.Murphy]

I don't think Landis really meant they went off of EPO..They used it differently in conjunction with transfusions for dilution. I think he meant they didn't JUST hit up EPO.

Yes, that is how I recall his summary.

As far as the HGH test, I have heard it is a farce, as detection window is about 2 hours...

The blood vectoring won't change. A skilled doctor can get around the autologous test, if there ever becomes one. EPO will still be undetectable, as the IV administration is sufficient to almost guarantee a clean screen.

Unless the arms race ratchets up a notch, there is nothing more that is really needed.

The genetic alteration is too drastic of a physiology, on the measure of two-fold speed and endurance. Not something that could go without notice very long. Would stand out just a wee bit from the other athletes.

If the basics are to be adhered to, I think what we will see is a drastic draw-down in usage, developing a base through the bio-passport that will keep riders in their spot. The best will still win, all the while they all reduce their reliance on the volume of meds they'd previously ingested/injected.

 

[Von Mises]

What will be next drug depends on pharmaceutical business, not doping doctors or athletes. Pharma turns trillions of dollars every year, they have knowledge and resources, if they create something clever people from other fields (sports) implement.
But if you look what is Pharma doing with gene therapy, it is still very much basic research - experimental level, and very little of actual clinical trials.

I doubt that there will be actual gene doping in near future.

 

[Mr.38%]

EPO, autologous infusions, corticosteroids and Test will stay. I would not rely on security by obscurity. BALCO's The Clear/Cream failed, MIRCERA failed and so will many more that differ too much from endogen substances.

Much more interesting will be the type and style of administration, duck, dodge and hiding techniques, logistics, corruption and such.

 

[RTMcFadden]

Below is an article that explains why gene therapy as treatment vector kind of died out. This occurred in 2000 and caused everyone to go back to the drawing board.
http://www.thelabrat.com/review/genetherapydeath.shtml

Below is an article indicating that gene therapy is coming back into vogue as a treatment vector in 2010.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-...py-revival-spurs-hope-for-genzyme-pfizer.html

Where we go from here is not certain to me, but this is a dangerous road to travel in search of performance gains.