"some dopers worse than others".....

[Benotti69]

Phil Gaimon ‏@philgaimon
@Digger_forum because some dopers are worse than others, you see. Like people.

No wonder this sport cant clean its act up!

 

[LaFlorecita]

the entire conversation between Matthew Cooke and Phil Gaimon is pretty weird

 

[pastronef]

No wonder this sport cant clean its act up!

I think he learned it reading the Clinic

 

[IzzyStradlin]

No wonder this sport cant clean its act up!

I see Gaimon's point and kind of agree with it myself. Guys doping to keep their jobs in Europe were different than those doping to slaughter amateur fields in the States.

So the key question is when did they really start? So when did guys like Hincapie, Zabriskie, VdV really get into it? Motorolla? Or was it in the USAC program as teens, like Decanio says?

Did Danielson start doping on Fassa, or Saturn, or Sobe-Cannondale....or before that?

There doesn't seem to be much interest from journos or the ADAs to figure out where it all started. And that really is key to understanding the stories we've heard so far.

 

[hrotha]

What's so controversial about this notion that not all dopers are the same? Is Kimmage the same as Armstrong?

 

[Benotti69]

I see Gaimon's point and kind of agree with it myself. Guys doping to keep their jobs in Europe were different than those doping to slaughter amateur fields in the States.

the smart guys didn't need to dope to keep their jobs. Hincapie et al did better with their doping than put bread on the table and a roof over their heads.

So the key question is when did they really start? So when did guys like Hincapie, Zabriskie, VdV really get into it? Motorolla? Or was it in the USAC program as teens, like Decanio says?

Doping in the sport started on day 1.

Did Danielson start doping on Fassa, or Saturn, or Sobe-Cannondale....or before that?

Steve Tilford will tell you when Danielson started, way before Europe.

There doesn't seem to be much interest from journos or the ADAs to figure out where it all started. And that really is key to understanding the stories we've heard so far.

ADAs have no interest in eradicating doping

 

[IzzyStradlin]

Doping in the sport started on day 1.

Blah blah blah...The specific question is: "When did the riders who testified about drug use to USADA really start using drugs?" and so "Did they perjure themselves? Or did USADA really not ask?"

Steve Tilford will tell you when Danielson started, way before Europe.

Sure, Tilford knows, TD knows, Vaughters knows, you know, I know....so why is nobody following up his obviously false testimony?

 

[the sceptic]

No wonder this sport cant clean its act up!

garmin dopers: good

other english speaking dopers: pretty good

spanish and italian dopers: unrepentant, will never change

Lance: satan

 

[roundabout]

What's so controversial about this notion that not all dopers are the same? Is Kimmage the same as Armstrong?

I am not sure it's Kimmage vs Armstrong.

More like Dekker vs Voigt.

And that's where Gaimon's "logic" breaks down.

 

[sniper]

I see Gaimon's point and kind of agree with it myself. Guys doping to keep their jobs in Europe were different than those doping to slaughter amateur fields in the States.

So the key question is when did they really start? So when did guys like Hincapie, Zabriskie, VdV really get into it? Motorolla? Or was it in the USAC program as teens, like Decanio says?

Did Danielson start doping on Fassa, or Saturn, or Sobe-Cannondale....or before that?

There doesn't seem to be much interest from journos or the ADAs to figure out where it all started. And that really is key to understanding the stories we've heard so far.

fair points, but why the past tense? are you trying to suggest something?

 

[IzzyStradlin]

fair points, but why the past tense? are you trying to suggest something?

Feel free to use any tense you like.

 

[dolophonic]

Pretty much what the Sceptic says..

personally i think the mountain biker chick that got caught with a U haul truck of Mary Jane is the best doper !

 

[thehog]

garmin dopers: good

other english speaking dopers: pretty good

spanish and italian dopers: unrepentant, will never change

Lance: satan

Then you have the team staff:

Leinders: Took riders weights, treated saddle sores. Nothing untoward.

Ferrari: Evil mastermind forcing non-English speaking riders to dope against their will. Worked with Lance. Pure unadulterated evil.

Brailsford: Singlehandly cleaned up the sport on his own by creating a team of clean riders who beat dopers. Mastermind and tactical genius.

Yates: Health problems had to retire.

Neil Stephens: Affitable Aussie, pulls no punches, voice of reason.

Johan Bruyneel: Forced young riders to dope against their clean ethics. Has no place in cycling.

Riis: Former doper, doesn't say too much so we kinda forget about him.

Vino: Massive doper but so well connected and so much money we have to give him one more chance.... after the next... maybe the next one after the next chance.

 

[ChewbaccaD]

I am not sure it's Kimmage vs Armstrong.

More like Dekker vs Voigt.

And that's where Gaimon's "logic" breaks down.

Outstanding observation.

 

[The Hitch]

garmin dopers: good

other english speaking dopers: pretty good

spanish and italian dopers: unrepentant, will never change

Lance: satan

Don't know why the sarcasm for lance. He really was a really bad guy and deserved everything he got.

 

[thehog]

Don't know why the sarcasm for lance. He really was a really bad guy and deserved everything he got.

True. The joke is that dopers pretend that they are good because they weren't as bad as lance.... see: Garmin dopers.

 

[9000ft]

garmin dopers: good

other english speaking dopers: pretty good

spanish and italian dopers: unrepentant, will never change

Lance: satan

Armstrong worse than Satan. Armstrong the NECROLANCER.

 

[Benotti69]

What's so controversial about this notion that not all dopers are the same? Is Kimmage the same as Armstrong?

Gaimon hating Ricco and not Hesjedal, Millar, VdV, DZ, Horner........

Kimmage was different because he left the sport rather than continue knowing that doping was rife.

Gaimon hating Ricco for saying what most with half a brain know, GT impossible to win without doping!

 

[Benotti69]

Blah blah blah...The specific question is: "When did the riders who testified about drug use to USADA really start using drugs?" and so "Did they perjure themselves? Or did USADA really not ask?"

Sure, Tilford knows, TD knows, Vaughters knows, you know, I know....so why is nobody following up his obviously false testimony?

They caught a big fish and everyone went home happy.

 

[blackcat]

Gaimon hating Ricco and not Hesjedal, Millar, VdV, DZ, Horner........

Kimmage was different because he left the sport rather than continue knowing that doping was rife.

Gaimon hating Ricco for saying what most with half a brain know, GT impossible to win without doping!

we need to introduce Gaimon to Dame Paula Radcliffe. Could be a marriage made in heaven

 

[Benotti69]

we need to introduce Gaimon to Dame Paula Radcliffe. Could be a marriage made in heaven

IAAF have Radcliffe's back. Gaimon needs to schmooze ol Brian Cookson and then he is on easy street to granfondo heaven.......

 

[blackcat]

IAAF have Radcliffe's back. Gaimon needs to schmooze ol Brian Cookson and then he is on easy street to granfondo heaven.......

with ricky riccio

granfondo heaven, and semi-naked selfies

 

[pmcg76]

Well at least I think I learned where the stories of Cooke being a doper probably arose from. Being friends with and living with Phil Zajicek probably got him a rep. Hard to believe he was trying to call Gaimon a hypocrite with that in his background. Cooke just seems like an attention seeker at this stage. Not very good on the bike so has to get attention other ways.

Though that '**** the Hypocrisy' guy was even worse with the self-entitled, look at me attitude. Why did he keep tweeting Digger when he didn't appear in the conversation? Maybe he did but I don't really understand twitter tbh.

 

[DirtyWorks]

So the key question is when did they really start? So when did guys like Hincapie, Zabriskie, VdV really get into it? Motorolla? Or was it in the USAC program as teens, like Decanio says?

This is all well-known and ancient history at this point. Here's the highlights for cycling: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/dope-and-glory-10-04-2001/

There doesn't seem to be much interest from journos or the ADAs to figure out where it all started. And that really is key to understanding the stories we've heard so far.

Well, you need to pick a point in time to start the narrative because it goes back to any kind of competition, formalized or not.

Since the rise of the modern IOC, many nations run doping programs because the IOC is perfectly okay with doping. Do it enough to attract an audience and not too much to scare away the corporate sponsors.

Meanwhile, we know, fundamentally, the IAAF, FIFA, and UCI are thoroughly corrupt. I don't follow other sports too carefully to say more. This too is perfectly okay with the IOC because it's a sh!t show too.

It's not like WADA can do anything about it either. That is not their job.

 

[MacRoadie]

Then, of course, there's Phil's tattoo...

That tattoo is a bar of soap, and it means that I race clean: no drugs, no doping. I got it with several other pros in the U.S. a few years ago. We agreed that if anyone dopes, the others will come scrape the tattoo off.

Seems like a pretty zero-tolerance policy to me...