SRAM Haters

[briztoon]

Can people explain to me why they dislike SRAM. I see this a bit around here, and being new to the sport would like to know why, especially as so many LBS employees/owners talk up SRAM.

 

[BroDeal]

What's not to like? After you replace the chain, chain rings, bottom bracket, front derailleur, and cassette with Shimano it works great.

 

[42x16ss]

I think most people dont like that it really feels like it was made to a budget.

IMO it has some positives: the RD lever throw is short and sharp, unlike Shimano. This makes it great for changes in the drops and awesome in a sprint. The hood shape is great IMO as well. The brakes aren't too bad on Force and Red, not Shimano good but at least as good as Campy.

Then there's the negatives: Their chains and cassettes are noisy, the FD can be hit and miss even on Red, their GXP BB's are draggy (haven't tried their BB30's), their cranks use an Allen Bolt that starts to undo itself over time, Rival brakes are downright dangerous and their jockey wheels wear out faster than an F1 cars tyres.

I had Rival on my old training bike, swapped the brakes for Force, the crankset for a hollowgram, the chain and cassette to Ultegra and some superfly jockey wheels and got 4 years out of it. The new owner is still using it for crits.

Basically, SRAM is getting close, but they aren't quite there yet.

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

Had a SCRAM Red grouppo last year for almost exactly 3 months before I sold it, waste of time IMHO. While I do like Double Tap shifting action everything else about it is total junk as BroDeal just listed, might as well start with a Shimano group and save yourself the trouble.

Your LBS, which I'm assuming is a big brand dealer, likes SCRAM because their warranty process is quick and virtually painless. Outstanding warranty doesn't always equate to quality products. And they are the new kings of OEM because their stuff is cheap, really cheap. Unfortunately it shows.

I'll stick with Campy thank you, I can totally rebuild if I ruin a shift lever, can't do that with any of the "S" brands.

 

[ElChingon]

I think they've earned a bad reputation when they've been on prime time and bamm! A broken chain (Fabian in the classics two years ago or so) then Andy basically loses the tour due to a dropped chain in 2010 (I know many will say it was some other instance but that's for another thread), and a few other prime time failures. Its not that other component makers don't have failures its just the timing of it all that is the straw that breaks their reputation. You don't want your component to be the cause of a loss or string of losses. Failures mid race at non-critical times get swept under the carpet rather easily, there have been many for both Campy and Shimano but again non-prime time so forgotten or at least I don't remember them.

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

Here's a short list of gripes from my short stint with drop dead RED;

-soft chanrings, in the 3 months I had my Red group I had wore out the big ring to a point that resembled any one of my Campy rings after 3 years!!!

-SCRAM/LiarVativ bb's are by far the worst of the outboard bb's on the market.

-downshifting a front derallieur shouldn't sound like a gun just went off.

I was curious, once and done.

 

[Martin318is]

Funny really.... over the last two years I have moved away from Shimano to SRAM and have had no problems on either of my main bikes - Force and Rival.

Not one issue and it feels so much better to ride on than my previous Dura-ace.

I gather its just me though...

 

[Notso Swift]

ElChingon ^^David Millar in the Giro, breakaway going for a stage win and he threw the bike over the barriers, was it 2010 or 2009?

Pro's on SRAM sponsership now often use different chains and cassettes...
It is also very light, great for the cafe, not so good for longetivity

(only riden on a mates Force on his training bike, so not much of a comparisson point, telling with his repalcement he said he was going back to Shimano)

AS for your shop, also consider they can tell a punter that they can get Bike X with Red for (say) $4700 and it weighs 6.9kg, but with DA it is $5100 and weighs 7.1kg, with Record it is $5300 and weighs 7.1kg and Super Record it is $5700 and 6.9kg (or Di2 @ $6000)
(Aussie Example, lot less price difference in Europe)
Easy sell, PRO level bike super light and the cheapest... marketing around the wold tells us that a bike HAS to be lighter to be better, and we all like a bargain! As I say, easy sell

 

[ElChingon]

ElChingon ^^David Millar in the Giro, breakaway going for a stage win and he threw the bike over the barriers, was it 2010 or 2009?

How could I forget, had me rolling laughing that day. A friend had just installed SRAM Red on his bike talking it up, I knew he was watching and we'd be doing the same ride later that day, of course no show he knew the ribbing he was gonna get.

 

[Parera]

The more I try double tap the less I like it, seems very slow compared Campy, even Shimano; least intuitive of the three systems. The hoods are more comfortable in my hands than the current generation of shimano, but given campy hoods are on another level in terms of ergonomics, meh, SRAM can go and double tap themselves silly.

Also, those paddles are REALLY ugly.

 

[Boeing]

please Are there really people who spend more than 3 seasons on the same groupo anyway? If you have the same group you did 3 seasons ago you dont ride

Cafe talk/look? is that anything like grabbing a short black and leaning on your bike just to tell everyone that you rebuilt your Record group yourself?

Shimano: Trying hard to adapt their ergoshifting to a front derailleur that is designed around 1970 down tube friction shifting!

 

[LugHugger]

I think they've earned a bad reputation when they've been on prime time and bamm! A broken chain (Fabian in the classics two years ago or so) then Andy basically loses the tour due to a dropped chain in 2010 (I know many will say it was some other instance but that's for another thread), and a few other prime time failures. Its not that other component makers don't have failures its just the timing of it all that is the straw that breaks their reputation. You don't want your component to be the cause of a loss or string of losses. Failures mid race at non-critical times get swept under the carpet rather easily, there have been many for both Campy and Shimano but again non-prime time so forgotten or at least I don't remember them.

Campag prime time fail - Boonen, Trouee d'Arenberg, Paris Roubaix 2011

Although this was most likely as much Campag's fault as Andy's mis shift in the Tour was SRAM's fault.

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

please Are there really people who spend more than 3 seasons on the same groupo anyway? If you have the same group you did 3 seasons ago you dont ride

Cafe talk/look? is that anything like grabbing a short black and leaning on your bike just to tell everyone that you rebuilt your Record group yourself?

Shimano: Trying hard to adapt their ergoshifting to a front derailleur that is designed around 1970 down tube friction shifting!

You're just bitter cuz you have family that works at SCRAM... I've told you before and I'll tell you agian, SCRAM BLOWS!!!

Btw Boeing, My longest running group was 1996-2006 Campy Chorus, well over 100,000 miles, and I did rebuild those levers, once. Plus, it's Espresso, not "Short Black"! What happened, you turning into some kind of nancy? A Short Black is Gary Coleman or Webster, not a drink.

 

[42x16ss]

please Are there really people who spend more than 3 seasons on the same groupo anyway? If you have the same group you did 3 seasons ago you dont ride

Cafe talk/look? is that anything like grabbing a short black and leaning on your bike just to tell everyone that you rebuilt your Record group yourself?

Shimano: Trying hard to adapt their ergoshifting to a front derailleur that is designed around 1970 down tube friction shifting!

Yes, it is possible to spend 3+ years on a gruppo, you just have to look after your bike, although obviously cassettes, chains, chainrings and jockey wheels are consumables...

Shimano and Campy aren't perfect either, it's just that SRAM has more flaws than the other two put together.

 

[42x16ss]

Plus, it's Espresso, not "Short Black"! What happened, you turning into some kind of nancy? A Short Black is Gary Coleman or Webster, not a drink.

I just got home after a few beverages with the lads, then I read that and now I just can't stop laughing!!!!

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Can people explain to me why they dislike SRAM. I see this a bit around here, and being new to the sport would like to know why, especially as so many LBS employees/owners talk up SRAM.

LBS get screaming deals on complete bikes with sram, more $ BUT the stuff just isn't very reliable over the long term. I get bikes from other bike shops with busted levers and the original seller wants to send THE WHOLE BIKE BACK, for a busted lever.

Anytime you see a high end group(RED) work better with a
-Force BB
-shimano chain
-shimano cogset
-Force FD

somethin' ain't right.

From the trenches, from somebody who doesn't need to fawn over trekspecializedgiantcanondale bikesouttaboxes
sram is mediocre stuff marketed really well.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

I think they've earned a bad reputation when they've been on prime time and bamm! A broken chain (Fabian in the classics two years ago or so) then Andy basically loses the tour due to a dropped chain in 2010 (I know many will say it was some other instance but that's for another thread), and a few other prime time failures. Its not that other component makers don't have failures its just the timing of it all that is the straw that breaks their reputation. You don't want your component to be the cause of a loss or string of losses. Failures mid race at non-critical times get swept under the carpet rather easily, there have been many for both Campy and Shimano but again non-prime time so forgotten or at least I don't remember them.

Why do sram team wrenches make more than shimano and Campagnolo teams wrenches?

Because they have to work twice as much.

BMC bought shimano instead of being sponsored by sram because the riders didn't like it and it was not reliable.

JV of Garmin has put sram on notice to make their stuff better because.....

their riders didn't like it and it wasn't reliable. Or they will go the BMC route.

 

[42x16ss]

Why do sram team wrenches make more than shimano and Campagnolo teams wrenches?

Because they have to work twice as much.

BMC bought shimano instead of being sponsored by sram because the riders didn't like it and it was not reliable.

JV of Garmin has put sram on notice to make their stuff better because.....

their riders didn't like it and it wasn't reliable. Or they will go the BMC route.

That is telling. JV will do it too - I'd take his harsh words with Felt over their frame geometry (tall head tubes) as an indication of how serious he can be.

 

[briztoon]

From the trenches, from somebody who doesn't need to fawn over trekspecializedgiantcanondale bikesouttaboxes
sram is mediocre stuff marketed really well.

I would like to know what that's about.

 

[US Patent Exploding Cyclist]

I made the switch to Rival/Force mix from 105/Ultegra mix, and here's how I compare the two groups. Bold means better in my opinion and this is solely based on feel and performance, NOT durability.

Hoods - 105 vs Rival - SRAM shape overall, fit my hands better than Shimano, have not tried Campy.

BB - N/A (Had a Chris King with both)

Crank - Ultegra vs Force - Push. They are both stiff, I imagine I may have a different opinion depending on how often I need to change the chain rings.

Chain - Ultegra vs Rival

FD - 105 vs Rival - Seems the cable tension, Gore Ride on for both, needs to be checked more often with SRAM to avoid slow shifting. And the noise is loud but not unbearable.

RD - Ultegra vs Force - This is why I made the switch. The shifting is "crisper" with the Force RD. There was too much lag with the Ultegra for my taste.

Brakes - 105 vs Rival - No real data but I feel like I had more control with the 105 brakes.

Even with the negatives I still prefer my SRAM set up to the Shimano, so much so that I put SRAM on my Cross bike with an Ultegra chain and my old 105 FD.

I have yet to have any durability issues, so my opinion may change if components start to fail at an alarming rate.

 

[oldborn]

In mine part of Europe (which is most advanced, flourishing, etc on the world) SRAM on road bikes are like Sasquatch, few have been seen.
I saw only red on Cannondale Evo team 2012.
I do not why SRAM road is not popular here (I guess we love Campy or Shimano), but there is lot of MTB s SRAM groupo.

So I do not nothing about SRAM

 

[blutto]

...locally the big issue, in addition to all the noisy mis-shifting parts, is broken levers...and the top local shop is really ****ed...thinking of not dealing with the annoyance any more...

Cheers

blutto

 

[Boeing]

this reads like an MTBR forum.

 

[Boeing]

funny I seem to remember a lot of the same posters here hating, with very much the same language, on DA Di2???????

 

[dsut4392]

Coming from a predominantly MTB perspective (I do ride road but not big miles and never ridden SRAM road groups to compare), SRAM and Shimano seem to leapfrog each other in terms of performance with successive generations. Looking at shifters and derailleurs at the XT/X9 performance level, in the early 2000s, Shimano had the edge, then mid 2000s to about 2010 SRAM, now Shimano are back on top. Other parts of the running gear each brand has different strengths.

As far as durability, I'm still running 2007 SRAM X9 shifters and derailleur on my FS MTB, and that bike has been through a ton of 'consumables' (at least 6 chains, 3 cassettes, a couple of sets of chainrings, rear wheel bearings, BBs a couple of fork and shock rebuilds). Anecdotally, XT stuff from the same era hasn't lasted as well, with shifters getting sloppy and crunchy and getting thrown out. Pre-shadow shimano RDs also stuck out like dogs balls and consequently tend to have been wrecked, though I've seen a fair few of both brands get mangled.

I haven't noted any suspicious difference in durability of the drivetrain parts - I run shimano cassettes cause they're cheaper, KMC chains likewise, Shimano cranks because XT is the best bang:buck there - light, stiff, cheap, best shifting out there. Older shimano alloy chainrings were made of soft cheese (maybe an alloy of gouda and and emmental, who knows), newer ones are much better. Until 2012 model year, SRAM (Avid) hydros were consistently better performing and more reliable than Shimano, legend has it that 2012 brakes are great but I haven't ridden them.

What does this all mean for road levers? Who knows, maybe SRAM do have a fragile design. But if they were truly half as bad as the naysayers on here would have you believe, do you really think SRAM would keep making them that way, selling them at low margin, and warrantying them as well as they are universally acknowledged to? Sounds like a way to lose money fast if you ask me, reminiscent of selling units at a loss and making up for it on volume.

I do like the Campy philosophy that all parts should be serviceable & replaceable, but it's unlikely to be a cost, time or hassle saver for many out there compared to getting a complete new unit under warranty if things go bad. Few people ride enough to wear out a road shifter sooner than they would want to upgrade anyway, and fewer still of those would be confident or competent to diagnose a problem, take it apart, replace the part, and put it back together correctly. Unfortunately I suspect even few shop wrenches have the skills. Even when those ducks line up, what is going to get you back on the road faster & cheaper:
1 - Take bike back to shop, uninstall and take apart shifter, identify broken part, order replacement & wait days/weeks for it to be delivered (or install from shop stock if they carry full range of parts - ?likely?), reassemble & reinstall
2 - take bike back to shop, SRAM authorise replacement shifter from shop stock (or send out new shifter in days), uninstall old shifter, reinstall new shifter.