Stage 7 - did vino wait ?

[python]

i am surprised there wasn’t more discussion of the controversial episode.

i’m not looking for a flame-out ala ‘did ullrich wait’ but merely an understanding of what really happened and whether an unwritten cycling etiquette was disrespected ?

vino said he was not sure who went down and there was a moment of confusion. we also saw the first attack/acceleration after nibali and basso went down came from linus gerdemann, not vino.

an italian telly commentator felt that being so close to the finish it was ok for vino to keep going. this feeling is not shared by many italian fans

did vino wait

was vino supposed to wait ?

 

[PhiberAwptik]

I read a Vino quote that said something about it hard to be gentlemanly in the last 30k's of a race.

 

[theswordsman]

Normally it's the "rule" to not attack when a contender, especially in the leader's jersey, goes down, has a mechanical, or as happened earlier in the season, stops for a nature break. Basso had Liquigas hold up the other day because of the code, and was put taken to task by that same commentator. I was watching Eurosport UK during the Vino event, and Sean and David talked it through. Vino made the effort to steady the pace, but there were five or six in his group, and a couple of the guys kept wanting to take off. It came down to either going with them, or watching them ride off into the sunset.

I don't have the option of a replay, but he did at least hesitate for a while, and David Harmon clearly thought it was a couple of other guys who forced the issue. The decision seemed to take several minutes.

 

[theswordsman]

Vinkourov and Stefano Garzelli (Acqua & Sapone) then found themselves in a small group off the front of the shattered peloton, and though they initially seemed to indicate that the group should sit up and wait for the pink jersey, Milram's Thomas Rohregger seemed to have other ideas, blasting clear and dragging the rest of the group with him.

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/15052010/58/giro-d-italia-evans-wins-stage-vino-pink.html

 

[python]

constructive contribution, theswordsman. thanks.

here's the video of nibali going down. it's hard to make out what happened at the front at the time as the camera was focus entirely on the accident. they showed the front of the peloton only around 27 km to go.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rY2Bd_IxIEo&feature=player_embedded#!

 

[valentius borealis]

When Basso and Nibali crashed, Gerdemann was ahead of the pack, but when the camera returned to the front group after the crash, he was riding with Vinokourov, and Rohregger and Bakelandts were attacking that small group.

We can eally only guess what happened in the meantime.

 

[barn yard]

watched the whole thing live and have it recorded, will put it on youtube tonight if there is enough interest. crash happened, vino was playing with his radio. stops working the front and goes straight to the back of the group (eurosport commentry team mention vino is refusing to work the front as there has just been a crash). almost instantly a milram rider went off the front and the rest of that group had no choice but to go after him.

 

[rxgqgxnyfz]

watched the whole thing live and have it recorded, will put it on youtube tonight if there is enough interest.

Can you do that?

I'd like to see what exactly happened with my own eyes.
________
Side Effects From Avandia

 

[barn yard]

ill see what i can do

 

[Martin318is]

watched the whole thing live and have it recorded, will put it on youtube tonight if there is enough interest. crash happened, vino was playing with his radio. stops working the front and goes straight to the back of the group (eurosport commentry team mention vino is refusing to work the front as there has just been a crash). almost instantly a milram rider went off the front and the rest of that group had no choice but to go after him.

Agreed. Vino sat on the back of that break and covered it but didn't actually contribute until the break was fully established and Evans came across. I would imagine that at that point the attitude was that if Evans was there then it was 'game on' again. Apparently Evans had managed that after having been caught behind the crash.

Its a bit more interesting when you consider that its the second time that Vino has taken advantage of a crash in this race already - Evans, etc a few days prior.

Nobody seemed to complain that Evans was up there and attacking whilst Nibali and Basso were still chasing. - What is the statue of limitations for waiting for a race leader?

 

[danjo007]

Evans only started riding hard off the front at the end - not when it was 20 to go. up until that point, he kept marking vino; he had no choice

 

[craig1985]

This is cycling, not tiddlywinks, if you have an opportunity to put time into somebody, then you would be a fool not tot take it IMO.

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

In the front group it was certainly Rohregger and Bakelandts forcing the issue. Gerdemann seemed to stop working, but attacked a few km later. Vino - although in the group - was rather quiet until evans rejoined.

It was a tough situation.

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

This is cycling, not tiddlywinks, if you have an opportunity to put time into somebody, then you would be a fool not tot take it IMO.

although winning is the main goal, there should be some integrity shown while doing so. It would have been nice if they waited, but at then of the day these things happen.

 

[Martin318is]

This is cycling, not tiddlywinks, if you have an opportunity to put time into somebody, then you would be a fool not tot take it IMO.

yes well.. The problem with that is that you open the door to the other major contenders to do exactly the same thing to you, when you go down or have a mechanical.

Very true that you don't 'Have' to wait. but you reap what you sow. For me, I would have more self respect if I won because I waited and beat them one to one rather than leaving them at the side of the road with a broken bike or whatever...

 

[53 x 11]

Vino waited and did all he could in the situation. The thing that I actually admire about Vino is that he seems to really respect and enjoy hard racing and often shows excellent sportsmanship. (insert hes not done anything that they all arent doing comment here)

 

[barn yard]

Can you do that?

I'd like to see what exactly happened with my own eyes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdZGcWIl4TI
audio is a bit out but im not going to sit there and record it all again

 

[craig1985]

yes well.. The problem with that is that you open the door to the other major contenders to do exactly the same thing to you, when you go down or have a mechanical.

Very true that you don't 'Have' to wait. but you reap what you sow. For me, I would have more self respect if I won because I waited and beat them one to one rather than leaving them at the side of the road with a broken bike or whatever...

Well how long do you wait for? 1 or 2km or more?

 

[python]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdZGcWIl4TI
audio is a bit out but im not going to sit there and record it all again

this episode wasn't in the video i linked upthread.

yep, it's pretty clear vino was not the one attacking or accelerating.

he was last in the small group that splintered when intermediate sprint points were up for grabs.

this settles it for me.

 

[hughmoore]

I think after Evans crashed when in Pink, it became game on for the rest of the tour.

I didnt think Vino attacked until after the others though.

If your saying you shouldnt attack, then what about riders behind like Sastre, is he not allowed to catch up.

I think unless its caused by a spectator, its game on in the last 50km.




Hugh

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

Didn't Cuddles have a temper tantrum about Piti etc accelerating when he had his mechanical in the Vuelta last year? What a hypocrite the squeaky voiced one is.

Nice to see Karma come and punch the Milramers who refused to sit up in the face with a 7 minute loss yesterday.

 

[Franklin]

There is a huge difference in the Ulrich/ Armstrong crashes. They waited on each other, but don't forget that those were obviously the only ones competing (it was in the last weeks as well). Whereas in this case it's still early and everyone is jockeying for positions.

Armstrong didn't wait if someone crashed on the flats (Zulle), just pointing out the differences.

And in the seventh stage.. well it looked like a seriously hectic affair. I don't see how Vino and Evans could have neutralized it while Garzelli and Gerdemann obviously had stakes. And you can't blame them... because Nibali crashes they have to stop a fair and square opportunity to better their classification against others? (Sastre dropping on the mud tracks for instance)

 

[Zen Master]

This is cycling, not tiddlywinks, if you have an opportunity to put time into somebody, then you would be a fool not tot take it IMO.

That must be a some kind of local Mad Max practice in Australia ?!
Everyone still remembers that famous Kaiser Ulrich gesture after Lance crash on the final climb at the Tour 2003, Cycling isn't a Bar fight for your information

Armstrong didn't wait if someone crashed on the flats (Zulle), just pointing out the differences.

Armstrong didn't even wait for his own teammate Contador at last year's Tour

 

[slartiblartfast]

Didn't Cuddles have a temper tantrum about Piti etc accelerating when he had his mechanical in the Vuelta last year? What a hypocrite the squeaky voiced one is.

Nice to see Karma come and punch the Milramers who refused to sit up in the face with a 7 minute loss yesterday.

Completely different situation. When Evans had his puncture in the Vuelta he was with the lead group of GC contenders who then collectively went on the attack. On Saturday he was one of the ones having to do the chasing to get back to the lead group. Are you suggesting he was supposed to wait for Nibali and Basso and pace them back to Vino's group?

 

[Cerberus]

That must be a some kind of local Mad Max practice in Australia ?!
Everyone still remembers that famous Kaiser Ulrich gesture after Lance crash on the final climb at the Tour 2003, Cycling isn't a Bar fight for your information



Armstrong didn't even wait for his own teammate Contador at last year's Tour

Did Contador have a crash/mechanical at a crucial point? When?