State of the forum 2024

[Riek s]

all the stuff you listed is not epo/blood as many said and wanted it to be.
tramadol was legal, no Sky rider had testosterone problems/positives, cortisone out of competition was fine, the TUE abuse was smart (but unfair), and surely puffers were used to help. that's the cocktail they tried and found to be usefull. it's walking the grey line and grey area (and I get you can't claim to be the new guys doing it clean but using your grey area methods, so that's where they got much *** on here and twitter)
but no Sky rider was ever involved in epo and blood doping investigation, unlike many other teams

Didn't sky put Henao on inactive due to 'irregular' blood values.

 

[pastronef]

Didn't sky put Henao on inactive due to 'irregular' blood values.

"Henao, who was also voluntarily suspended by Sky as they launched an internal investigation in 2014, has been cleared of any wrongdoing after his data were analysed by an additional panel of experts, the International Cycling Union (UCI) said on Tuesday"

 

[Libertine Seguros]

all the stuff you listed is not epo/blood as many said and wanted it to be.

And they weren't a clean team or honest/transparent as many said and wanted them to be, as evidenced by the fact that you are giving the laundry list of the grey areas they played in and the performance enhancing drugs they were taking. Even the likes of Rick James and Joachim were reduced to arguing that they weren't doing anything worse than anybody else in the bunch, which given the triumphalism of earlier days and their treatment of the likes of Contador and Nibali at the time, rendered them every bit as guilty of the hypocrisy that you quote in your signature as anybody they had spent the first few years of Sky's reign of terror poking fun at.

In a polarised debate, the truth lies in the middle somewhere. Funny how often that happens.

Also given how for much of their reign of terror the UCI was run by a guy who used to be part of the team's organisational structure, how obstructive the team were around any kind of investigation, how frequently we saw evidence of blatant and clear dishonesty from them, and how poorly they handled themselves when under investigations (zero medical records for three years with no backups anybody?), I have absolutely no faith whatsoever that what we know now is the totality of what was going on and cannot countenance why anybody would.

It may not have been EPO/blood or any old school obvious stuff, or motors or anything else similarly blatant that would bring the whole house of cards crashing down in an instant... but I still think there's plenty been going on in the péloton, whether inside or outside the grey areas, that we don't know yet. We haven't had a Thomas Frei in over a decade now. A bit of tramadol here and there and abuse of cortisone outside of competition does not explain the huge performance leaps that we've been seeing in the bunch in the last few years. Anti-doping progress has come to all but a screeching halt since 2009, but the speeds in the bunch have continued to increase. We've seen the UCI wrestle control of anti-doping away from independent testers, and lawyers manage to dismantle the efficacy of the biopassport in obtaining bans as well as manage to formulate acquittals based on some incredibly tenuous probabilities just by proving that they aren't necessarily impossible. It is a lot harder to believe that anti-doping is keeping up with the dopers now than it was 15 years ago, and consequently I find it extremely hard to believe that what we have been able to learn about doping in the 12 years since Thomas Frei's confessions is the totality of what is going on.

As an aside... you quote on Henao's acquittal. Do you believe Daryl Impey to be a clean rider following his controversial acquittal?

 

[Netserk]

@pastronef, do you think it's the least bit plausible that Wiggins, Froome and Thomas didn't blood dope?

 

[zlev11]

all the stuff you listed is not epo/blood as many said and wanted it to be.
tramadol was legal, no Sky rider had testosterone problems/positives, cortisone out of competition was fine, the TUE abuse was smart (but unfair), and surely puffers were used to help. that's the cocktail they tried and found to be usefull. it's walking the grey line and grey area (and I get you can't claim to be the new guys doing it clean but using your grey area methods, so that's where they got much *** on here and twitter)
but no Sky rider was ever involved in epo and blood doping investigation, unlike many other teams

do you really think that was all they were doing? if they were willing to go to such lengths to skirt the rules that way what stops them from doing worse? also, abusing cortisone in this way was not a new thing back then, either. it had been done for years and they were certainly not the only team doing it, yet they were kicking everyones asses.

 

[topcat]

I am one of many forumites whose are anti-doping for cyclists and typists. The cycling bodies don’t seem to be anti-doping for cyclists and frankly they don’t care about us (I know this hurts).
lately, some anti-anti-doping forumites have come back to us. It’s been a long time between drinks.

 

[RedheadDane]

I've definitely seen posts that made me wonder if the typist was drunk, or on something even stronger!
Otoh, I think the occasional beer - or whatever your fancy - while posting should be allowed.

 

[topcat]

I've definitely seen posts that made me wonder if the typist was drunk, or on something even stronger!
Otoh, I think the occasional beer - or whatever your fancy - while posting should be allowed.

No I want a totally clean forum. Alcohol is the devil. Sipping from the devil’s cauldron is akin to sleeping with the red beast himself.

 

[RedheadDane]

No I want a totally clean forum. Alcohol is the devil. Sipping from the devil’s cauldron is akin to sleeping with the red beast himself.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

No I want a totally clean forum. Alcohol is the devil. Sipping from the devil’s cauldron is akin to sleeping with the red beast himself.

I, on the other hand, want a forum where people are so dirty that you'll think they've just ridden Paris-Roubaix in awful weather.

 

[gregrowlerson]

Vwipe is clearly on some special sauce. I'd go as far to say that we could be back to the Lance era and that this is no longer a lvl playing field.

Hey, I'm just going off what's actually happened, and vwipe has been on a different lvl to the rest of us for weeks now. When he is on form nobody can compete with his posts. Maybe that will change, but until then this is just something that we all need to accept, instead of wishing for some sort of alternative reality.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

Vwipe is clearly on some special sauce. I'd go as far to say that we could be back to the Lance era and that this is no longer a lvl playing field.

Hey, I'm just going off what's actually happened, and vwipe has been on a different lvl to the rest of us for weeks now. When he is on form nobody can compete with his posts. Maybe that will change, but until then this is just something that we all need to accept, instead of wishing for some sort of alternative reality.

He's definitely producing the same watts words over and over again.

 

[QueenStagiaire]

CyclistAbi is already at altitude on Teide preparing for the Giro, rarely bringing up Roglič in the race threads.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

If Mayomaniac reaches mutant levels during the Giro, we'll know his grandmas's EPO will have accidentally ended up in the family dinner.

 

[Netserk]

It’s a big day for logic is your friend. I hope he wins the forum battle. I’m off mountain climbing for the day, I couldn’t take the pressure.

Neither could liyf.

 

[gregrowlerson]

I haven't had time to breathe it all in yet, but looks like the Roglic thread has already gone deep into the red blood cell count at high altitude.

 

[topcat]

On Sunday I missed LBL cause I was doing altitude training on Ireland’s highest mountain (1038.6 m). RR says altitude effects don’t kick in till above 2000 m but I could feel it and I struggled to keep up with my 10 year old son. All this was done clean, apart from caffeine. There’s an hilarious interview with Stephen Roche where they discuss drugs in cycling. He says you have to be really careful, one extra cup of coffee could cause you to test positive.
CyclistAbi will reach his giro weight next Sunday.
I’m overweight and ready for the challenge.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

On Sunday I missed LBL cause I was doing altitude training on Ireland’s highest mountain (1038.6 m). RR says altitude effects don’t kick in till above 2000 m but I could feel it and I struggled to keep up with my 10 year old son. All this was done clean, apart from caffeine. There’s an hilarious interview with Stephen Roche where they discuss drugs in cycling. He says you have to be really careful, one extra cup of coffee could cause you to test positive.
CyclistAbi will reach his giro weight next Sunday.
I’m overweight and ready for the challenge.

Yeah, you have to be very careful. A fanboy can quickly become a ban(ned) man.

 

[RedheadDane]

Sorry guys. I know this might be against the rule, but I couldn't resist the temptation.
Here's an unsolicited *** pick:

Spoiler: Sovvy...

 

[gregrowlerson]

CyclistAbi & Tobydawq are like Roglic & Valverde: Their base form level always remains pretty high, though at times they can appear to be a little repetitive.

Topcat is like Nibali: A little bit inconsistent, but can hit top form regularly enough, and he usually holds this high level for at least a couple of weeks once he gets there (mythical Topcat third week….)

Maybe I am like Kloden: Can disappear from the scene at times getting up to God knows what, but can suddenly threaten the big 6 when I get everything right (when I’ve left the green tea bag in for the perfect length of time). Also I was banned once, but this almost went unnoticed. Like Kloden, mud doesn’t really stick to me. Well, like Kloden I tend to stay away from wet cobblestones (and mud) altogether.

Ilmaestro99 is actually like….WVA at the Tour. His behaviour might make us think that he is trolling at times, but he’s actually just really good.

Houtdffan is like Remco. If you give that guy any freedom he will take full advantage, and push huge watts until the finish. Though in his case perhaps this race is his dream….a time trial that never ends. Like Kloden I may look like a skinny climber, but looks can be deceiving as this is kind of my dream too.

Logic Is Your Friend is currently like…..Riccardo Ricco.

 

[SHAD0W93]

Wait, you were banned?!

 

[gregrowlerson]

Wait, you were banned?!

There were claims of tramadol in my system.

 

[SHAD0W93]

There were claims of tramadol in my system.

You rebel you.

 

[gregrowlerson]

Scrolling through the Roglic thread; about half the posters have an asterisk. Feels like we're having our very own operation puerto.

 

[RedheadDane]

CyclistAbi & Tobydawq are like Roglic & Valverde: Their base form level always remains pretty high, though at times they can appear to be a little repetitive.

Topcat is like Nibali: A little bit inconsistent, but can hit top form regularly enough, and he usually holds this high level for at least a couple of weeks once he gets there (mythical Topcat third week….)

Maybe I am like Kloden: Can disappear from the scene at times getting up to God knows what, but can suddenly threaten the big 6 when I get everything right (when I’ve left the green tea bag in for the perfect length of time). Also I was banned once, but this almost went unnoticed. Like Kloden, mud doesn’t really stick to me. Well, like Kloden I tend to stay away from wet cobblestones (and mud) altogether.

Ilmaestro99 is actually like….WVA at the Tour. His behaviour might make us think that he is trolling at times, but he’s actually just really good.

Houtdffan is like Remco. If you give that guy any freedom he will take full advantage, and push huge watts until the finish. Though in his case perhaps this race is his dream….a time trial that never ends. Like Kloden I may look like a skinny climber, but looks can be deceiving as this is kind of my dream too.

Logic Is Your Friend is currently like…..Riccardo Ricco.

Who am I?