State of the peloton 2022

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Sep 22, 2020
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Dumoulin didn't ride for Jumbo when he won the TT Worlds.
yeah, I already admitted that I confused the Dutch teams in a comment above.

The fact Dumoulin, who had missed most of the previous season, caught in form Froome on the climb in that TT (after starting a minute back) is the salient point
 
Jul 17, 2022
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Vinge and TJV rightly gets a lot of flak here. Seems to me Pogachar is a much more likeable doper (for obvious already pointed out reasons). I do wonder how the sentiment would have been had Pog crushed all resistance yet again this year almost halving the Armstrong record while barely 23 years of age with no real team behind him yet.

Personally I prefer broader competition and not the same guy winning every year though the Danish media and nationalist Public and social media ejaculation are making it hard to enjoy this one here. I also have to admit it takes me straight back to the unreal 07 feeling. I guess I enjoyed Riis more (especially 95) because then I was so Young and new to cycling I didn't grasp the doping problem yet. Boy I learned quickly though.

I guess the problem is no one really could have won that would please anyone in the clinic. That would probably take 50-100 DNF's from top down just to be a discussion.

All in all I think doping is much more controlled these days. Pro-Cycling is a much larger sport now with much more money, hence important interests to keep scandals at bay.
That is not to say they dope less, just more safely and perhaps multi-micro-oriented.
Some have pointed to potential UCI protectionism. I have to admit this crossed my mind as well. Big money equals bigger corruption "vis a vis FIFA".

At the end of the day I can still enjoy the racing. Even with some years of team/rider dominance. Should TJV keep on partying like it's 22 next couple of years my interest will surely fade.

Let's see what happens.
 
Jul 17, 2022
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One more Point.

I have felt we were in a vacuum the past decade as for doping scandals.

I think many anticipated we would have gotten a larger revelation than the semi-scandal with SKY that while on surface didn't have far implications yet we now see they lost huge momentum while Brailsford along with the SKY name have been almost retired. Heck the cycling genius don't even have post's in his thread here anymore.

As for the vacuum, I now feel as far as the eye can see we won't get any huge scandals unless we get a "too big to fail" development where all bets are off in the name of profit and greediness/hunger.

Others have pointed to the bio passport as a guide/help for the teams. It seems to work nicely if that was the intention. Don't cut off the hand that feeds You. Instead put in place tools where You can claim ignorance and yet efficiency on part of the unlucky sole doper.
 
Vinge and TJV rightly gets a lot of flak here. Seems to me Pogachar is a much more likeable doper (for obvious already pointed out reasons). I do wonder how the sentiment would have been had Pog crushed all resistance yet again this year almost halving the Armstrong record while barely 23 years of age with no real team behind him yet.

Personally I prefer broader competition and not the same guy winning every year though the Danish media and nationalist Public and social media ejaculation are making it hard to enjoy this one here. I also have to admit it takes me straight back to the unreal 07 feeling. I guess I enjoyed Riis more (especially 95) because then I was so Young and new to cycling I didn't grasp the doping problem yet. Boy I learned quickly though.

I guess the problem is no one really could have won that would please anyone in the clinic. That would probably take 50-100 DNF's from top down just to be a discussion.

All in all I think doping is much more controlled these days. Pro-Cycling is a much larger sport now with much more money, hence important interests to keep scandals at bay.
That is not to say they dope less, just more safely and perhaps multi-micro-oriented.
Some have pointed to potential UCI protectionism. I have to admit this crossed my mind as well. Big money equals bigger corruption "vis a vis FIFA".

At the end of the day I can still enjoy the racing. Even with some years of team/rider dominance. Should TJV keep on partying like it's 22 next couple of years my interest will surely fade.

Let's see what happens.
This reminds me that it’s really refreshing to be in a country that doesn’t care about cycling. I hope it stays this way here. Cycling is such a great sport to follow when there’s no bias and just racing.
 
I'm wondering whether Andrea Piccolo's rollercoaster career has anything to do with clinic issues?
Dumped by Astana (of all team) because of physical issues. Not picked up by any team for months after Gazprom folded. Scores some good results with Savio (...) and Vaughters apparently is interested.

Opinions?
 
Reactions: Ilmaestro99
This isn't really about any one rider, more about the state of doping in the greater peloton, so I thought this the most relevant thread for it.

I chanced across a detail a few days ago that seems significant but I'm not sure of what. I've been through enough flame wars on the subject that I know average speed in the TdF isn't significant of much, but how's this for a statistic?

The Lanterne Rouge in the 2022 TdF was Caleb Ewan. Ewan completed the 3,349.8 km course 85h 14' 02", which works out to 39.3 kph.

There was only one GC winner before 1998 who was faster than 39.3. That was in 1992, when the top three in GC were faster than 39.3 kph.

To put that in perspective, the first three GC finishers in 1992 aside, the LAST PLACE GC FINISHER in the 2022 TdF was faster than EVERY RACER IN EVERY TdF from 1903 to 1997.
 
This isn't really about any one rider, more about the state of doping in the greater peloton, so I thought this the most relevant thread for it.

I chanced across a detail a few days ago that seems significant but I'm not sure of what. I've been through enough flame wars on the subject that I know average speed in the TdF isn't significant of much, but how's this for a statistic?

The Lanterne Rouge in the 2022 TdF was Caleb Ewan. Ewan completed the 3,349.8 km course 85h 14' 02", which works out to 39.3 kph.

There was only one GC winner before 1998 who was faster than 39.3. That was in 1992, when the top three in GC were faster than 39.3 kph.

To put that in perspective, the first three GC finishers in 1992 aside, the LAST PLACE GC FINISHER in the 2022 TdF was faster than EVERY RACER IN EVERY TdF from 1903 to 1997.
This is very interesting but everyone’s going to blame it on longer routes back then and better bikes now.
 
Reactions: noob and SHAD0W93
This is very interesting but everyone’s going to blame it on longer routes back then and better bikes now.
Better bikes and marginal gains but they still don't climb the Alpe on the same page as Pantani, Riis, Ullrich and Armstrong.

Subiendo como una moto: 2022 (climbing-records.com)

Vingo, Pog and Thomas climbed in 39'08".

Its not fashionable to say so but the passport whilst certainly not stopping doping actually works.
 
Reactions: noob
Better bikes and marginal gains but they still don't climb the Alpe on the same page as Pantani, Riis, Ullrich and Armstrong.

Subiendo como una moto: 2022 (climbing-records.com)

Vingo, Pog and Thomas climbed in 39'08".

Its not fashionable to say so but the passport whilst certainly not stopping doping actually works.
Has doping in cycling been compared to other sports with similar histories? It’s probably smart to look at what’s happening in distance running, xc skiing etc, and compare era by era.

I know all the freakiest running records were set in the 90s and early 2000s basically right in line with cycling climbing records, then not as many records were broken until the last few years. In the last few years running records have been falling like dominoes and some of it is due to the shoes but I’d expect doping as well.

The only difference seems to be that running has continued to have frequent busts to my knowledge, whereas cycling was mostly quiet in the last 10 years. But maybe that’s just my perception. Would be interesting to look at formally, and for other sports.
 
Reactions: noob
I'm wondering whether Andrea Piccolo's rollercoaster career has anything to do with clinic issues?
Dumped by Astana (of all team) because of physical issues. Not picked up by any team for months after Gazprom folded. Scores some good results with Savio (...) and Vaughters apparently is interested.

Opinions?
Yeah, the fact that we never heared anything about the nature of his health problems at Astana is strange.
Imo it's either clinic related or something really personal like an eating disorder.
 
Has doping in cycling been compared to other sports with similar histories? It’s probably smart to look at what’s happening in distance running, xc skiing etc, and compare era by era.

I know all the freakiest running records were set in the 90s and early 2000s basically right in line with cycling climbing records, then not as many records were broken until the last few years. In the last few years running records have been falling like dominoes and some of it is due to the shoes but I’d expect doping as well.

The only difference seems to be that running has continued to have frequent busts to my knowledge, whereas cycling was mostly quiet in the last 10 years. But maybe that’s just my perception. Would be interesting to look at formally, and for other sports.
This is something I've been wondering about as it would be a sign of that something new is out there. New drug, new method to avoid tests etc etc. But since I don't stay updated on those sports I hope others does.
 
A cloud of suspicion is draped over the professional peloton struggling to outsprint the "ghosts of the past." Performance-enhancing drugs have been part of the staple diet of the "convicts of the road" since the inception of this brutal sport. Believing everything is flawless emphatically insults our collective intellectualism. Their denialism will not indoctrinate.
 
I've not looked at the stage route but with the GC contenders at this Vuelta I think we will see nothing like the top 3 and top 10 time gap spread we saw at the TdF. Perhaps more within the normal range of top9 all within 10 mins is possible and would convey something a little easier on the eye than the TdF.

This is despite Bahrain, Pog and Vingegaard all seemingly having zero grounds for fearing they'll be rumbled post-TdF (which must raise the confidence of cheaters everywhere to try more powerful options).

Basically I'm saying I expect lower time gaps in the Vuelta and for this to reflect badly on Pog, Vingegaard and Geraint'sTdF performances.
 
nobody calling BS on Jay Vine? did ridiculous w/kg on the final climb yesterday. I wonder how active this thread would be if he were eastern European.
Agreed. People act as if a single day performance is meaningless if the guy isn’t a GC threat but the tour is under a week in and he outclimbed everybody in the race and it was raced hard by everyone. Going easy on prior days doesn’t allow performances like this.
 
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