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State of the Peloton 2024

Page 19 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.
Those quick trips to Spain are odd though. Is it really impossible to get blood doping products into other countries, or is it to reduce the likelihood of being tested?
It’s much more likely the latter. But obviously mainly possibilities can be imagined. I mean, if I lived in the Netherlands or Belgium during the winter and Spring and could afford frequent jaunts to Spain, I would likely do so :)
 
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Although that kind of “topping off” would be blood bags init? Which isn’t detectable other than via the biopassport.
Armstrong in the Peter Attia interview said after 1999 when the EPO test was developed & implemented, it was all blood bags for the Tour. LA said they smuggled in 2 bags per rider reinfusing one bag on each of the two rest days. He wouldn't elaborate nor was he asked where & when the team was withdrawing the blood.

Granted, they didn't have to deal with the ABP back then, but interesting they didn't touch EPO - even microdosing - in competition.
 
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Armstrong in the Peter Attia interview said after 1999 when the EPO test was developed & implemented, it was all blood bags for the Tour. LA said they smuggled in 2 bags per rider reinfusing one bag on each of the two rest days. He wouldn't elaborate nor was he asked where & when the team was withdrawing the blood.

Granted, they didn't have to deal with the ABP back then, but interesting they didn't touch EPO - even microdosing - in competition.
Aside from the risk of being detected in testing, EPO is also not be as effective as blood bags during competition—other than keeping HCT from dropping too much. Unlike the almost immediate boost from blood infusions, EPO takes longer and gains will be more gradual. EPO doesn’t carry oxygen—it stimulates marrow to make more blood, a process that takes 48-96 hrs. And even after that one gradually builds up the HCT levels. So EPO during competition would be just to maintain the benefits of OC doping or the gains from altitude training. Which would make the risk:reward ratio much less appealing,
 
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I understand what you're saying, but there were quite a few riders from other teams testing positive for EPO IC during the GTs of the LA dynasty years. Also, in that Attia interview, LA said they used a lot of EPO out of competition in their training program leading up to the Tour (I guess no such thing as OOC testing back then or he was paying off anti-doping. Lol).

I believe you're talking about the "On-phase" & "Off-phase" with EPO doping? Is this where the athlete will implement an EPO cycle for several weeks during training before their key competition (On-phase), shutting down a week or two before competition to avoid glowing still maintaining elevated blood values that wouldn't trigger a red flag on the ABP? (Off-phase).
 
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I understand what you're saying, but there were quite a few riders from other teams testing positive for EPO IC during the GTs of the LA dynasty years. Also, in that Attia interview, LA said they used a lot of EPO out of competition in their training program leading up to the Tour (I guess no such thing as OOC testing back then or he was paying off anti-doping. Lol).

I believe you're talking about the "On-phase" & "Off-phase" with EPO doping? Is this where the athlete will implement an EPO cycle for several weeks during training before their key competition (On-phase), shutting down a week or two before competition to avoid glowing still maintaining elevated blood values that wouldn't trigger a red flag on the ABP? (Off-phase).
Right, that’s the point, EPO isn’t a PRN PED to use for immediate impact, the way that blood, corti-steroid, & anabolics (24 hrs) are able to do. I didn’t remember about the terms on-phase and off-phase with EPO, but more with anabolics. EPO could be used in micro doses during competition to help maintain the HCT gains from altitude prior to racing.. I don’t much about the dosing/timing, but I try to make it my business to know how EPO works.
 
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The terms "on & off-phase" are used a lot in the CAS hearings involving ABP hematological-anomalies cases. The way I understand it is that the anti-doping experts can determine for the most part on the athlete's ABP data whether transfusions or an ESA was the reason for the anomalies (based on the behavior of Hct/Hgb, RET%, RBCs, etc, during OOC samples up to race day).

In the Durussel study, distance runners were injected therapeutic doses of rEPO over a 4 week period. Hct increased an average of ~20% over baseline (41 - 49) in the "On-phase" period. The runners experienced an average improvement of 6% on their times (non-elite runners). 2 weeks post-injections their Hct still remained elevated at ~15% (47), and 4 weeks post-injections, ~10% elevated over baseline (45) - "Off-phase." A ~3% improvement in times was seen 4 weeks post-EPO cycle.


So, I guess the key here is aggressive OOC & target testing to increase the odds of catching EPO dopers in the on-phase?
 
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I understand what you're saying, but there were quite a few riders from other teams testing positive for EPO IC during the GTs of the LA dynasty years. Also, in that Attia interview, LA said they used a lot of EPO out of competition in their training program leading up to the Tour (I guess no such thing as OOC testing back then or he was paying off anti-doping. Lol).

I believe you're talking about the "On-phase" & "Off-phase" with EPO doping? Is this where the athlete will implement an EPO cycle for several weeks during training before their key competition (On-phase), shutting down a week or two before competition to avoid glowing still maintaining elevated blood values that wouldn't trigger a red flag on the ABP? (Off-phase).
I believe that is because they used EPO when they had blood withdrawn, so when they took a new bag, it was EPO 'tainted' blood. Another reason for why testing is seen as an intelligence test
 
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The terms "on & off-phase" are used a lot in the CAS hearings involving ABP hematological-anomalies cases. The way I understand it is that the anti-doping experts can determine for the most part on the athlete's ABP data whether transfusions or an ESA was the reason for the anomalies (based on the behavior of Hct/Hgb, RET%, RBCs, etc, during OOC samples up to race day).

In the Durussel study, distance runners were injected therapeutic doses of rEPO over a 4 week period. Hct increased an average of ~20% over baseline (41 - 49) in the "On-phase" period. The runners experienced an average improvement of 6% on their times (non-elite runners). 2 weeks post-injections their Hct still remained elevated at ~15% (47), and 4 weeks post-injections, ~10% elevated over baseline (45) - "Off-phase." A ~3% improvement in times was seen 4 weeks post-EPO cycle.

https://journals.plos.org/plo [QUOT...ticle?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0056151[/QUOTE]
So, I guess the key here is aggressive OOC & target testing to increase the odds of catching EPO dopers in the on-phase?

sone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0056151[/URL]

So, I guess the key here is aggressive OOC & target testing to increase the odds of catching EPO dopers in the on-phase?
Thanks for the info, really interesting stuff. Envious that their subjects got a 20% increase in HCT in just 4weeks—it’s taken me 5 months of weekly injections to get that kind of increase.
 
I believe that is because they used EPO when they had blood withdrawn, so when they took a new bag, it was EPO 'tainted' blood. Another reason for why testing is seen as an intelligence test
I’ve read that as well. Imagine the response to a positive test: “honestly I wasn’t doping, it was from a contaminated supplement! What supplement? . . It was supplemental blood.”
 
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Right, that’s the point, EPO isn’t a PRN PED to use for immediate impact, the way that blood, corti-steroid, & anabolics (24 hrs) are able to do. I didn’t remember about the terms on-phase and off-phase with EPO, but more with anabolics. EPO could be used in micro doses during competition to help maintain the HCT gains from altitude prior to racing.. I don’t much about the dosing/timing, but I try to make it my business to know how EPO works.
The microdosing of EPO during races is for managing the passport, to mask your blood bags.

EDIT: Before the passport, it was to manage your OFF score (it was devised in 2003). But I think they immediately switched to IV after the EPO test, and that at first they could use a dosage that'd be quite efficacious.
 
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But we are left with the question why Armstrong never tested positive for EPO. Especially because there was hardly any microdosing at the time, as is now widely used by the top teams. At the time, there were rumors that Armstrong had indeed tested positive. But the UCI and the organizers covered this up. Also because other (top) riders, including French, also tested positive for doping. The UCI and the organizers actually had nowhere to go.
Unless they caught some lesser riders, later also Landis because he was not a desired winner.
 
But we are left with the question why Armstrong never tested positive for EPO. Especially because there was hardly any microdosing at the time, as is now widely used by the top teams. At the time, there were rumors that Armstrong had indeed tested positive. But the UCI and the organizers covered this up. Also because other (top) riders, including French, also tested positive for doping. The UCI and the organizers actually had nowhere to go.
Unless they caught some lesser riders, later also Landis because he was not a desired winner.
Lance Armstrong provided a suspicious doping control at the 2001 Tour de Suisse but did not test positive for EPO, according to Martial Saugy, the director of the Lausanne laboratory which carried out the tests.
[...]
Speaking to AFP, Saugy said that Armstrong did not test positive for EPO but his sample was one of the three from the race to be flagged as “suspect." As an "important competitor," Armstrong was called before the UCI to provide an explanation. Armstrong returned another such suspect sample at the Dauphiné Liberé in 2002, which was analysed by a different laboratory.

“There was no positive test on the Tour of Switzerland in 2001,” Saugy told AFP. “Armstrong had another suspect result during the 2002 Dauphiné Liberé. The politics of the UCI at that time, if there was such a result involving an important competitor, was to meet them and ask for an explanation. That was their approach to prevention.”


https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/ar...t-but-not-positive-says-head-of-lausanne-lab/
 
The microdosing of EPO during races is for managing the passport, to mask your blood bags.
I've wondered for a while now why thyroid medication was being used. Now I know - turbo boosting!
https://roidvisor.com/wada-to-athletes-go-ahead-use-t3-thyroid-drugs-to-enhance-your-performance/
Conte also had a catchy name for another drug he regularly gave to athletes. It was “The Lightness” for liothyronine (Cytomel).

“I used to give liothyronine to Dwain Chambers. I gave it to Kelli White before every race when she won double gold at the World Championships in Paris in 2003.” Conte told Jimson Lee in an article for SpeedEndurance.com published in 2013.

“It’s like putting a turbo-charger on the steroid. It makes it much more effective. Everything is faster including heart-rate. If you feel sluggish, you suddenly have bounce in your legs; you feel light.”

Conte’s proof of the performance-enhancing effects of thyroid hormone comes from the results of the athletes who took it. It works especially well when combined with microdoses of anabolic steroids like testosterone.
 
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So make that France, Spain & the UK have all f*cked up doping tests. I await the Hessman case to see if Germany can make it 4!
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/a...er-life-torn-apart-for-nothing-in-doping-case

Only recourse, sue the [bleep]ers!

and Switzerland with Flückiger, and now Stannard gets a full backdated suspension from 2018 cause it took the UCI 6 (SIX) years to check his passport? probably UCI didn't have a very strong passport case against hi, so they went full backdated suspension
 
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