Stop the farce called Mountains classification

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Seeing 'superclimber'Arredondo finishing his mountain Time Trial yesterday [ 126 Julian David Arredondo Moreno (Col) Trek Factory Racing 0:12:13 ] and looking at the other stages I came to the conclusion this competition is just a big joke. Look at the Gavia stage, he takes some beautifull points on the Gavia and then:
125 Julian David Arredondo Moreno (Col) Trek Factory Racing 0:44:07

Same goes for the Montecampione stage: 10'56"

Just like last year when superclimber Pirazzi showed the same pattern, Edet at the Vuelta etc etc.
I wont take Moncoutie in this line of reasoning by the way.

Some years are the exception of the rule but over the whole it has become a travesty, merci a Richard Virenque?

sources:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountains_classification_in_the_Giro_d'Italia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountains_classification_in_the_Vuelta_a_España

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountains_classification_in_the_Tour_de_France


Thoughts please.

approves this message

 

[Dazed and Confused]

The "competition" is just a gimmick these days. Not to be taken serious.

Glad Arredondo showed his worth and won a stage. That elevates him in my estimation.

 

[Wallenquist]

Arredondo won one of the hardest stages of this year's Giro, why u didn't write anything about that ? What's the point of killing himself in MTT if he's not fighting for overall ?

And like you said it's mountains classification not "the best climber" classification.

 

[argyllflyer]

It gives the break something to do and is a mild diversion on days the GC can't be bothered.

No problem with them here.

 

[ItalianGigolo]

I have nothing against this competition. It gives chances to some other cyclists to show their value and also gives us something else to watch on some climbs that otherwise would not be very intersting.

Arredondo deserves his jersey too in my opinion. He is more than a decent climber and he attacked a lot this Giro.

 

[roundabout]

eh, it's a farce, but at least it's some entertainment to fill the time before the genuine cycling superstars muster enough courage to attack in the last 3 km

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Yes, Virenque's accumulation method has damaged the mountains competition as an award. But so has the improvement in the level of domestiques in the péloton that means that it is too hard for the genuine GC contenders to go from distance in the style of a Lucho Herrera, Federico Bahamontes or José Manuel Fuente. The Giro (and briefly, in 2010-11, the Vuelta) got around this by giving a special MTF category which granted more points than cat.1 climbs, which meant that often somebody who could pick up points in escapes but also be pretty well placed GC wise would pick it up (e.g. Pérez Cuapio in 2002 or Piepoli in 2007). The Tour offered double points for the final climb if it was HC, cat.1 or cat.2, but didn't matter if it was an MTF or not, but this had the effect that when they had a series of non-MTF mountain stages, it would just be left to the break (also, the bonus seconds disappearing meant GC riders no longer cared so much about winning the stages, or worse, like the 2009 Vuelta, riders didn't think they could drop Valverde and he would be able to beat them in a sprint for the bonus seconds, so they didn't chase breakaways and nobody in the top 8 of the GC won a stage that year).

Arredondo has held on to the mountains jersey by the same approach as many strong climbers in recent years - think Pellizotti in the 2009 Tour, Moncoutié in his Vueltas, and Garzelli in the 2011 Giro. I don't think we can fault Arredondo. Like Pellizotti in polka on Mont Ventoux, he attacked on Montecampione, but once it was clear he didn't have it for the stage, he rested up. Pellizotti was dropped on a cat.2 climb Cav made it over the day before that, because he wanted to be able to attack on Ventoux. If Arredondo attacks today, all is ok. And he has won a mountaintop finish and been highly visible. Yes, there's been a lot of breakaway behaviour to get there, and perhaps the Tour's approach is the best at present, thinking of recent mountains classification winners like Samuel Sánchez in 2011 and Nairo last year, where the mountains classification was genuinely won by somebody either in genuine contention for the win or somebody of a strong enough climbing level. The Giro's mountains classification has kind of had three or four different approaches to winning it in recent years:
- extremely strong climber and secondary contender drops some time, targets the classification and annihilates everybody in it (Sella 2008, Rujano 2005)
- breakaway artist gets into the jersey and accumulates points on cat.2 and 3 climbs to hold on to it by getting in the break several times (Wegmann 2004, Lloyd 2010)
- secondary or tertiary contender targets a stage to get away and get into the mix for the classification, usually with the Cima Coppi, and holds on by being close enough to the GC men afterward (Garzelli 2009 and 2011)
- a combination of (2) and (3) as we have a genuine climber as opposed to a break specialist, but still utilising the breakaway to target the classification (Rabottini 2012, Arredondo 2014)

 

[staubsauger]

 

[Red Rick]

I think maybe bonifications should be awarded at some of of HC and cat 1 and 2 climbs, maybe that will light things up

 

[Ferminal]

To be fair Arredondo has been one of the better winners in recent years. Charteau being the lowpoint. The Tour currently does it pretty well with ridiculous points for MTFs.

 

[roundabout]

It's not his fault that had Casar, Cunego, LLS and Moreau for company on his big point gathering day.

Also, surviving the super crazy first hour of stage 16 to win the first 2 climbs and then not finishing in the bus unlike our Gavia runner up has to count for something.

 

[Guybrush]

Arredondo won one of the hardest stages of this year's Giro, why u didn't write anything about that ? What's the point of killing himself in MTT if he's not fighting for overall ?

And like you said it's mountains classification not "the best climber" classification.

and now the mods can close the thread

 

[staubsauger]

Rasmussen , Voeckler (Who really fought for the jersey in the mountain stages he won) and Quintana where honorable winners. So were Rujano at the Giro and Moncoutie at the Vuelta. Rabottini deserved his jersey with a great escape, although he is no super climber.

Sella was in his own league. Making the Giro an absolutely one man show. Arguably the most deserved and most honorable mountains jersey winner of the last decade. Clearly the strongest climber by far in that edition. No way Contador would've won that Giro without Sella losing his 12 minutes.

 

[Carols]

I have no problem with this award. It takes some of the monotony out of some stages and allows riders who cannot compete for the overall to shine and have a podium ceremony each day. Long Live the Mountains Classification

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

I have no trouble with Arredondo winning it. If he went full in the mountain ITT he would have probably finished top 15 or top 10. The openeing poster is underestimating Arredondo's real climbing abilities by a lot

 

[Piz Buin]

The point is, it really helps to be no gc contender. The peloton wouldn't allow the 'best climber' to get in a break and collect those points. It wouldn't be a very smart thing to do anyway.

/basic cycling tactics

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

For the record, I am not criticizing Arredondo for doing what he does, it is about the tendency in a lot of GT's which takes away the importancy of the Mountains Jersey, imho.

It has become a gimmick and I dont think that is in the spirit of the great climbers of the past, like Fuente and van Impe.

 

[Der Effe]

The "competition" is just a gimmick these days. Not to be taken serious.

Glad Arredondo showed his worth and won a stage. That elevates him in my estimation.

Still he is nowhere near being the best climber and the classification makes no sense at all.

 

[Fight.The.Power]

It would be a massive loss to lose the môuntains classification, especially the polka dot in tdf as it is so iconic.

However, i totally agree that it needs a facelift.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Other question.

Should a guy who hangs on the car of his DS on the Stelvio win the mountains classification?

 

[roundabout]

I have no trouble with Arredondo winning it. If he went full in the mountain ITT he would have probably finished top 15 or top 10. The openeing poster is underestimating Arredondo's real climbing abilities by a lot

27-170-75-48-125-1-126 on major mountain stages

don't see any underestimation

 

[Afrank]

I don't really have too much a problem with how it is now. Arredondo I think is a very deserving winner as was Pirazzi last year. Arrendondo has been one of the most attacking riders in the race after all. Sure it would be nice to see the KOM leaders also competing for the GC, but it's not a make or break the competition kind of thing for me.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

I don't really have too much a problem with how it is now. Arredondo I think is a very deserving winner as was Pirazzi last year. Arrendondo has been one of the most attacking riders in the race after all. Sure it would be nice to see the KOM leaders also competing for the GC, but it's not a make or break the competition kind of thing for me.

I have more respect for Cataldo and Wellens I must say.

 

[roundabout]

Race on on the Sella Razzo.

Virtual top 10 finisher of the Grappa MTT gone.

 

[luckyboy]

To be fair Arredondo has been one of the better winners in recent years. Charteau being the lowpoint. The Tour currently does it pretty well with ridiculous points for MTFs.

Simon Clarke is a pretty crummy name to be king of the mountains in any GT.
Probably Edet too.


Otherwise I don't really mind doing things this way, its a nice side-competition.
To 'fix' it all you have to do is double point on every MTF. Or you could only award points for the final climb because that would sure as hell see the best climber win.