Strava sued over cyclist death

[Boeing]

http://velonews.competitor.com/2012/06/news/family-sues-strava-over-descending-death_224889

-family is now suing San Francisco-based Strava for the death, claiming negligence and that the website encouraged him to speed.

-death is not the first to be tied to the cycling website. The San Francisco Examiner reported that cyclist Chris Bucchere has been charged with felony manslaughter in the death of pedestrian Sutchi Hui on March 29th of this year. According to prosecutors, Bucchere was tracking his speed using Strava at the time, and his on-bike GPS showed that he was moving more than 35 mph in a 25 mph zone.

 

[rickshaw]

The Death of a Child

http://velonews.competitor.com/2012/06/news/family-sues-strava-over-descending-death_224889

-family is now suing San Francisco-based Strava for the death, claiming negligence and that the website encouraged him to speed.

-death is not the first to be tied to the cycling website. The San Francisco Examiner reported that cyclist Chris Bucchere has been charged with felony manslaughter in the death of pedestrian Sutchi Hui on March 29th of this year. According to prosecutors, Bucchere was tracking his speed using Strava at the time, and his on-bike GPS showed that he was moving more than 35 mph in a 25 mph zone.

From what I have seen, the death of your child is one of the most painful things to endure. I understand, and maybe do not agree with their action at the same time.

Any competition encourages maximum effort, in this case speed. In this case it would be important to know if the STRAVA web site instructs users that they MUST obey the posted speed limits. If not, I could see negligence.

 

[R_Wilki]

Unfortunately, the death of common sense continues.

 

[ElChingon]

Unfortunately, the death of common sense continues.

RIP common sense.

 

[El Oso]

Absolutely ridiculous. There is no way in hell that suit will stand.

 

[slowoldman]

I'm all for personal responsibility, but this also points out the utter ridiculousness that is strava.......

Race your bike, in reality, not virtual reality.......

 

[ElChingon]

I'm all for personal responsibility, but this also points out the utter ridiculousness that is strava.......

Race your bike, in reality, not virtual reality.......

Would that apply to any record keeping list? Whether it be a piece of paper with pencil writings or only for fancy electronic gadgets?

Maybe the parents should sue the speed-o-meter maker? or the GPS maker which allowed Strava to list those results, heck the satellite that sent the data!

 

[Afrank]

A message from Strava's co-founder and CEO, Michael Horvath. Most likely in response to the suit. http://blog.strava.com/stand-with-us-4923/
Also, on Strava one has the ability to flag ride segments which are hazardous.
The suit I think is ridiculous, the guy should have had enough sense to slow down and obey the rules of the road. It's like someone blaming a fast food place for making them fat, it's still their choice to eat the food. Just like it was this guys choice to go so dangerously fast.

This article also makes some good points about the case http://inrng.com/2012/06/strava-lawsuit-california/.

 

[DirtyWorks]

When there were some **amazing** descending times on a couple of roads with four-way stop signs on real, live intersections, I knew this was coming.

I like it anyway, but you have to disregard most of the descending times.

ElChingon, the lawyers probably did contact the GPS maker. This is California, in the U.S. after all. Common sense says the suit should not stand, but this is the U.S. where lacking common sense is frequently rewarded.

 

[Afrank]

ElChingon, the lawyers probably did contact the GPS maker. This is California, in the U.S. after all. Common sense says the suit should not stand, but this is the U.S. where lacking common sense is frequently rewarded.

reminds me of this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeXQBHLIPcw

 

[slowoldman]

Would that apply to any record keeping list? Whether it be a piece of paper with pencil writings or only for fancy electronic gadgets?

Maybe the parents should sue the speed-o-meter maker? or the GPS maker which allowed Strava to list those results, heck the satellite that sent the data!

Maybe I wasn't clear, I think the suit is ridiculous as well. But Strava encourages normal people to ride like idiots. I've seen it first hand. There is a standing joke with our group, we only want to ride strava free rides. I am so tired of hearing people talk about their "KOM's". I stand by what I said, race your bikes if you want to see how fast you are.

Strava, the ultimate in freddydom........


Then again, I am a grumpy old man as well as a slow one.

 

[MarkvW]

Maybe I wasn't clear, I think the suit is ridiculous as well. But Strava encourages normal people to ride like idiots. I've seen it first hand. There is a standing joke with our group, we only want to ride strava free rides. I am so tired of hearing people talk about their "KOM's". I stand by what I said, race your bikes if you want to see how fast you are.

Strava, the ultimate in freddydom........


Then again, I am a grumpy old man as well as a slow one.

Post phony times?

 

[ElChingon]

... But Strava encourages normal people to ride like idiots. I've seen it first hand. There is a standing joke with our group, we only want to ride strava free rides. I am so tired of hearing people talk about their "KOM's". I stand by what I said, race your bikes if you want to see how fast you are.
...

Sorry, only Idiots ride like Idiots. No website, gadget, technology can ever take the blame for them, ever. I can hear it now, I jot down a list of people I know with their times on a fast section of road then leave it on a bulletin board and someone can sue me for some idiot who reads it and now wants to topple those times... man ...

 

[slowoldman]

Sorry, only Idiots ride like Idiots. .

True, I agree, and most talk of their Strava times, that's what I'm saying.

Proud non Strava user.

 

[Boeing]

Sorry, only Idiots ride like Idiots. No website, gadget, technology can ever take the blame for them, ever. I can here it now, I jot down a list of people I know with their times on a fast section of road then leave it on a bulletin board and someone can sue me for some idiot who reads it and now wants to topple those times... man ...

One rider does not make a race. But with strava it does. the problem I have like slowoldman is all the riders with strava and pandora in their ears worried about their average speed by taking unnecessary risks to shed seconds. (see average speed thread) typically the risks to shed time have nothing to do with a measure of fitness.

Can a website like SRTAVA be liable for promoting what some might call a dangerous activity?

here is the waiver noone reads but clicks agree to terms. so the rider admitted he knew this was a dangerous sport.

YOU EXPRESSLY AGREE THAT YOUR ATHLETIC ACTIVITIES, WHICH GENERATE THE CONTENT YOU POST OR SEEK TO POST ON THE SITE (INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO CYCLING) CARRY CERTAIN INHERENT AND SIGNIFICANT RISKS OF PROPERTY DAMAGE, BODILY INJURY OR DEATH AND THAT YOU VOLUNTARILY ASSUME ALL KNOWN AND UNKNOWN RISKS ASSOCIATED WITH THESE ACTIVITIES EVEN IF CAUSED IN WHOLE OR PART BY THE ACTION, INACTION OR NEGLIGENCE OF STRAVA OR BY THE ACTION, INACTION OR NEGLIGENCE OF OTHERS. YOU ALSO EXPRESSLY AGREE THAT STRAVA DOES NOT ASSUME RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE INSPECTION, SUPERVISION, PREPARATION, OR CONDUCT OF ANY RACE, CONTEST, GROUP RIDE OR EVENT THAT UTILIZES STRAVA’S SITE. http://www.strava.com

however ther is still the leader board and there is still a guided route with speeds daring riders to beat them.

i think the speed limit on the route is 30 and dude was doing 49. so with times like that posted well is excess of the limit was the website encouraging ridres to break the law is a question.

 

[ElChingon]

One rider does not make a race. But with strava it does. the problem I have like slowoldman is all the riders with strava and pandora in their ears worried about their average speed by taking unnecessary risks to shed seconds. (see average speed thread) typically the risks to shed time have nothing to do with a measure of fitness.

How does this differ from the average speed-o-meter or a stopwatch? I use Strava and guess what the phone is in my back pocket, not everyone has it up in their face, its a good tool if used right and a bad tool if used wrong. Just like a hammer, great for smashing a nail in a board but not the safest thing if swung around haphazardly in a large crowd or in the presence of one person. Darwin awards are given out for a reason, this guy earned one with his endeavor, Strava is not the problem but the user as there are plenty of other apps that do the same thing, track my route (used for walking, running, cycling, driving a car, or what ever that has motion or moves).

Can a website like SRTAVA be liable for promoting what some might call a dangerous activity?

here is the waiver noone reads but clicks agree to terms. so the rider admitted he knew this was a dangerous sport.
...
however ther is still the leader board and there is still a guided route with speeds daring riders to beat them.

Its users like that guy that take the usefulness of Strava and turn it into something that drives them to kill themselves, not the other way around. Otherwise, who ever has smashed their thumb or worse with a hammer can sue the hammer maker as well.

i think the speed limit on the route is 30 and dude was doing 49. so with times like that posted well is excess of the limit was the website encouraging ridres to break the law is a question.

Yet another wrong in this guy's whole story.

I know preaching to the choir (I am hoping).

Serenity NOW!

 

[JA.Tri]

As indicated above: common sense is an increasingly rare commodity these days.

If the road is not "Closed for competition" then road rules apply. In any case, cyclists surely would be aware of their responsibility to ride with an eye on road and environmental conditions, avoiding incidents and keeping their own skin intact.

Having said that, yes I have pushed the envelope, but that was and is entirely my responsibility.

 

[JA.Tri]

Absolutely ridiculous. There is no way in hell that suit will stand.

While I agree with the sentiment, I think Strava may be found to have contributory negligence. The argument might be based on "reasonably foreseeable" circumstances.

IMO Strava should not be found negligent, but as so many other cases demonstrate, that may well not be the case.

 

[hughmoore]

Strava is great for comparing your history and seeing how you improve.

With regard to the legal responsibility, how has Guinness Book of Records gotten away with it all these years?


Hugh

 

[Boeing]

Updated Terms and Conditions at Strava

subject of an email I just received from my strava account

 

[ElChingon]

Strava is great for comparing your history and seeing how you improve.

With regard to the legal responsibility, how has Guinness Book of Records gotten away with it all these years?


Hugh

I'm going to have to sue the Ginness Book! It made me try to topple all those records! Damn that book!

So I get this in my inbox from Strava, I wonder why

Updated terms and conditions at Strava
We've updated our terms and conditions, and we're doing everything we can to get the word out. You'll also see a notice on your dashboard when you log in to strava.com, and we've posted to our blog as well.

What's changed? We've grown a lot and have expanded our products and services since our terms were last updated. The updated terms clarify things related to our mobile apps, as well as real-world races and events that you might participate in that use Strava's site.

That short description isn't meant to be a substitute for the real deal, so please take the time to read the revised terms and conditions found at strava.com/terms. If you use one of our mobile apps, please download the latest version to access the updated terms from inside the app. Then, get back out there and go for a ride or a run.

Thanks,
The team at Strava

Note: You are receiving this email because you have an account with Strava. There's no option to opt-out because this is a critical account update. We send them rarely!

 

[Boeing]

so all the moral arguments are in great. the good outweigh the evil.


but alas this is California a litigious state and negligence is a slippery slope.

 

[Boeing]

Strava is great for comparing your history and seeing how you improve.

With regard to the legal responsibility, how has Guinness Book of Records gotten away with it all these years?


Hugh

so you think average speed is a true measure of fitness?


there is one tab on the site that is interesting

COMPETE

simply click it and follow this path and beat this username and you are the bomb.

that alone opens up a can of worms

it is likely they will settle

 

[ElChingon]

so you think average speed is a true measure of fitness?


there is one tab on the site that is interesting simply click it and follow this path and beat this username and you are the bomb.

that alone opens up a can of worms

it is likely they will settle

See there is one thing I've never even clicked on, I'm off in comparing my own times on my own sections I deem or want to compare. Sure I see the other sections people mark off but one person's sprint is another's cool down section or stop and have a coffee. You need to stop looking at the others and concentrate on your own times. Much like life, others always trying to distract you.

 

[Spider1964]

Post phony times?

Many a Strava record is held by the guy who leaves their Garmin on their bike.... on their roof rack.... whilst they're driving home in their car..